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Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision. singapore
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Author Topic: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.  (Read 30115 times)

Eadeqa

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #300 on: August 30, 2014, 07:41:51 am »

Increasing the addresses to 128 bits is not easy change as it not only requires changing the data structure of  the entire core,   but it will break all third party software

I agree that going to 128 bit addresses will require many internal changes.  I believe it can be done in a way that would allow interoperability with current 64 bit addresses:

A0. Check if RS is 64 bits or 128 bits.
A1. if 128 bits, proceed to step C.
B0. address is 64 bits so check for collision with more than one 128 bit address in blockchain.
B1. If no collision, extend 64 bit address to 128 bit address and proceed to step C.
B2. 64 bit address does collide with more than one 128 bit addresses so show error "must specify long address" to user and abort.
C. Perform specified operation/command with 128 bit address.

Major changes to the core should be done in a way that allows backwards compatibility.

There aren't going to be any collisions with only 50,000 accounts. The probability is 1 out of 10^15. But changing addresses to 128 bits will break MGW. Ask JL77 and it will break everything else too (block explorers, exchanges, chat apps, nxxty, etc).  And the change isn't going to be easy even in  and as it will require switching from long to String or something.
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sparta_cuss

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #301 on: August 31, 2014, 04:37:03 am »

What is the status of the pub key issue? Is there even agreement on what the problems are, let alone ways to address them?
It looks like everyone got excited about SuperNET and left this knotty problem for another day.
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unchi

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #302 on: August 31, 2014, 05:33:26 am »

I like the idea of 128 bit addresses, despite the headaches it may cause. Better sooner than later.
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coinomat

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #303 on: September 07, 2014, 04:21:35 pm »

Public keys thing causes serious headaches. Won't elaborate on this further now, just help me please -
how to send a payment to a new NXT acc through API? This is definitely not in the official docs yet
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valarmg

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #304 on: September 07, 2014, 04:27:28 pm »

Public keys thing causes serious headaches. Won't elaborate on this further now, just help me please -
how to send a payment to a new NXT acc through API? This is definitely not in the official docs yet

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Send_Nxt

Use Send Nxt command while specifying the public key.
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rriky92

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #305 on: September 07, 2014, 05:49:41 pm »

Public keys thing causes serious headaches. Won't elaborate on this further now, just help me please -
how to send a payment to a new NXT acc through API? This is definitely not in the official docs yet

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Send_Nxt

Use Send Nxt command while specifying the public key.

yeah but if user doesn't give you public key you can't get it without passphrase
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valarmg

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #306 on: September 07, 2014, 06:11:02 pm »


yeah but if user doesn't give you public key you can't get it without passphrase

Of course. You have to force the user to give the public key, or else you can't send them anything.
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coinomat

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #307 on: September 07, 2014, 08:18:47 pm »

But isn't that a public key of the SENDER acc?
Public keys thing causes serious headaches. Won't elaborate on this further now, just help me please -
how to send a payment to a new NXT acc through API? This is definitely not in the official docs yet

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Send_Nxt

Use Send Nxt command while specifying the public key.
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valarmg

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #308 on: September 07, 2014, 08:37:20 pm »

But isn't that a public key of the SENDER acc?

Sorry, my mistake. Go to localhost:7876/test and you'll see a sendMoney API call. There you'll see a "recipientPublicKey" field.
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coinomat

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #309 on: September 09, 2014, 08:30:06 pm »

Another question :) How to verify that the public key a user provides is correct?
Thank you!
But isn't that a public key of the SENDER acc?

Sorry, my mistake. Go to localhost:7876/test and you'll see a sendMoney API call. There you'll see a "recipientPublicKey" field.
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valarmg

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #310 on: September 09, 2014, 08:35:27 pm »

Another question :) How to verify that the public key a user provides is correct?
Thank you!

Use getAccountId, and specify the public key. The account/accountRS returned should match the account that the user has specified.
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Zahlen

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #311 on: September 13, 2014, 06:20:57 pm »

I've deleted the wiki pages with the deprecated method of handling deposits, and linked to Wesley's guide (http://nxtra.org/nxt-integration.pdf) instead. I realize that guide is not yet finalized, but it's certainly much better than giving new merchants bad old info, and I don't have the expertise to fill in details myself. Wesley, maybe you could state at the top of the guide that it's to be finalized?
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nxtfan

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #312 on: September 25, 2014, 06:16:47 am »

So give me a second. First we moved from numeric to Reed-Solomon address numbers.

Now, after 2 months having RS numbers, thats not enough and we add a 128bit key.

So with having the key (example: d117a81774a69c5005cc8a7f28849ea796c79a8f4e086b32d085c428c64ae249) you can get the RS address, but not the other way around. But we need the 128bit key to make a transaction so we could call it address anyway. We should either make the 128bit key readable and more type-proof and use as new address format or make it possible to send to the old address format again.

The old account numbers and the RS format are just different ways of viewing the same 64 bit address -- except the RS format adds a little bit of a safety net when sending to wrong or mistyped addresses.  Really, we're where we are now because BCNext made a mistake when he chose to use 64 bit addresses.  The RS format would work for 128 bit addresses as well.

Edit: also, since the RS format has a check, there's really no reason why we couldn't use 128 bit addresses and 64 bit addresses at the same time.

Re: "because BCNext made a mistake when he chose to use 64 bit addresses"

I looked at this discussion, all messages and decisions go under one assumption - that BCNext was wrong picking 64 bit address.
I still like BCNext decisions and I wish I was around Crypto world during NXT IPO, I would be millionaire by now  :(

I don't think this was mistake.
I also don't think that using only numbers for accounts was mistake.

NXT devs gradually spoiled NXT coin with sequence of bad decisions and on top of it forced those upon all forgers.
Community should replace these devs ASAP as they are driving NXT coin into disaster and benefit only NXT Clones (NAS, NODE, e.t.c.), anybody care to revive NAS with right choices ?
The right thing to do is for merchants to display 64 bit numeric address then any letter as separator and then numeric order id.
Customer will double click on that token in any browser, copy and paste into NXT client.
NXT Client should split that string into 2 parts - address and order id and send order id as attached message.

RS code is not easy to copy because browser does not highlight the whole thing if it's split with dashes or spaces or whatever URI you may invent.
Also RS code is not transmittable over the phone.

No need to change NXT core every time we need to change UI.
Forking NXT core like this is ridiculous.

Whoever put recommendations for merchants to use unique account numbers should be FIREd from NXT community because that caused bad decision to fork platform to accommodate this mistake, which will in turn cause another fork to undo this damn mistake.
The more stupid forks like these are possible the more centralized the coin is. In this case it's centralized around developers who are not even smart and also are disrespectful to BCNext decisions.

Any new release should be placed into NXT blockchain and have a vote of approval from stakeholders and only after that approval NXT core would accept tx from that version of software running on other peers.
Any peer running software that is not voters-approved should not be able to post anything into blockchain.
Approval should be by sending 3 NXT to publishing account so that publisher will automatically get paid for newer good version.


Re: "128bit key readable and more type-proof"
There is no such a thing as human friendly 128 bit address no matter how you present it.
In any case, in 99% of use cases users won't type it, they will copy&paste it, so you need to make it easy for copy&pasting.


Now I see how BCNext wanted to show the right path to people who were stuck with Bitcoin platform mindset.
We need someone to show the path again (see my ideas above), because looking at this and 64 bit discussion forum I get impression that NXT community has lost it's way.

I only agree with posts of jl777 and coinomat at this point.
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achim

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #313 on: September 25, 2014, 06:36:14 am »


I don't agree on the address format, and I think it would be the worst idea to replace nxt devs (replace by whom? How to get accustomed with Nxt code? pay them how? guide them in which direction?)

Before RS newbies came yelling: "I mistyped my Nxt address, cryptsy sent all my Nxt to the wrong address, why don't you have error detection?" RS is a good solution to this problem.
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chanc3r

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #314 on: September 25, 2014, 07:08:21 am »

I don't like the pub key modification but I understand the need for it.
I do understand peoples frustration with its introduction as a community we did not do this well.

I think NXT RS address are amongst the most user friendly and safe now...

We should not change something that will be used every day to solve a problem which occurs once in the lifetime of an account so for me this is not a reason to change to 128bit

A lot of sites have made the change to request the pub key and we should not put them through the hassle of changing again.
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KarlKarlsson

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #315 on: September 25, 2014, 10:14:26 am »

The point is that NXT will only be adapted if it's easy to use - easiness is the key word here. Almost every successful technology is simple and useable by the 'average joe' and that is NOT the case at this moment. I personally don't like the word 'average joe' since it isn't accurate. We have to aim for the younger people, age 18-50 since they will be the ones using the new technology for tens of years. Furthermore I think only this generation is able to make the change. Keep in mind that the switch to the Online Banking and the debit/credit cards is still not completed after 20 years so how dare we think of mass adoption within 10 months?
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neofelis

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #316 on: September 26, 2014, 12:25:22 am »

Thanks for including 50 in your vision of 'young'.

:)
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KarlKarlsson

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #317 on: September 26, 2014, 11:41:05 am »

Thanks for including 50 in your vision of 'young'.

:)

haha you're welcome  :D
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nxtfan

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #318 on: October 03, 2014, 04:28:13 am »


I don't agree on the address format, and I think it would be the worst idea to replace nxt devs (replace by whom? How to get accustomed with Nxt code? pay them how? guide them in which direction?)

Before RS newbies came yelling: "I mistyped my Nxt address, cryptsy sent all my Nxt to the wrong address, why don't you have error detection?" RS is a good solution to this problem.

ok, error detection is useful, I am not against it, but it does not have to imply letters and other symbols that make it hard to copy&paste.
It could be just more digits (especially useful for transmission over phone or VoIP) or quick entry on ATM pin-pad.

I like how BTER displays both formats.
I don't like how SAE gives just RS.

About new devs - you are right.

Do you agree that switching to 128 bit is bad idea ?
Do you agree that unique independent address per customer order is bad idea ?
Those one-time addresses will pollute blockchain and are hard to clean-up.
Also they will not allow to display one merchant alias in transaction history or easily group my purchases by merchant.
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Squeaker

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Re: Public key for fresh accounts - this is a wrong decision.
« Reply #319 on: October 03, 2014, 09:38:27 pm »

... but it does not have to imply letters and other symbols that make it hard to copy&paste.
This part makes absolutely no sense to me... what letters and symbols make it hard to copy|paste?

=squeak=
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