elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
Price speculation
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Latest Nxt Client: Nxt 1.11.15

Pages: 1 ... 1411 1412 [1413] 1414 1415 ... 1456

Author Topic: Price speculation  (Read 3559368 times)

gh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +19/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
    • NXT Chart
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28240 on: November 09, 2016, 06:43:54 pm »

.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 05:39:32 pm by gh »
Logged

wolffang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +98/-5
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 690
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28241 on: November 09, 2016, 08:09:11 pm »

Each Child Chain has its own token.
Each side Chain uses the main token.

Logged

Brangdon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +229/-25
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1389
  • Quality is addictive.
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28242 on: November 09, 2016, 08:13:14 pm »

I don't know much about HEAT. If they are talking about side-chains and private block-chains, then presumably those will not have the security benefits of Ardor child-chains.
From the initial HEAT post: We still use a diminishing part of the NXT open source core in the new HEAT engine, because of the strong cryptographic and p2p consensus mechanisms it offers that need no change. So, unless the cryptographic code will change between NXT and Ardor/Ignis, I guess that the security benefits of the two platforms should be the same? Please correct me if I am wrong.
In Ardor, the security of each child-chain is the same as the security of the main Ardor chain. The child-chains don't have forgers of their own; all of their transactions are included in the Ardor chain and verified there (†). Someone mounting a 51% attack against any child-chain would need to acquire 51% of ARDOR, which (assuming the system is healthy) would be very expensive.

This is a boon for anyone running a child-chain on Ardor. It means they don't have to worry about 51% attacks even if their own coin has a low market cap. On the day they launch, even with no users or hype, their transactions will be secured by the full Ardor consensus. They can keep their market cap low, if that suits their business model, without lowering security.

This security model is, so far as I know, a new thing in the world, unique to Ardor. HEAT doesn't seem to have anything like it. Generally, the problem with launching a new coin is not generating the genesis block, but persuading other people to trust it and use it and forge/mine for it.


(†) And subsequently pruned, so they don't take up long-term storage.
Logged

ThomasVeil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +183/-11
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1400
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28243 on: November 09, 2016, 09:44:23 pm »

So you are implying the investors are buying ARDR because it secures something? How should it grow in price if you are not looking at the forging profits?

Forging income was never worth the investment - since it always was a tiny percentage.
Additionally it was no real transfer of value - since everyone got the same percentage (simplified).

The value can't go to zero, as long as the Ardor-sub currencies have any value. 
Why do you think so? The NXT market cap is several orders of magnitude lower than the market cap of it's assets. The same is true for US dollar as well. The ADRD value won't go to zero but the price may approach zero very closely.

It can not go to zero, else the assets would be unsecured. Anyone could buy all the Ardor and destroy the assets. 
It can be lower than the asset value - as long as it's still a high enough barrier. Should Ardor sub-chains be picked up by significant players, then they would in their self-interest back the value of Ardor.
And doesn't it contradict your first question? If you think that the value itself can go so low, then why would it be worth forging?

Though I guess you're right - there seems to be little reason to expect an explosive rise (except for pure speculation).

The creation of new childchaing will be very restricted first years after the Ardor launch. If it is not I would create NXT2 childchain coin with 100% distribution between NXT holders (not 50%), with 10 seconds block times and 0,1 NXT2 fees. It will effectively ruin the Ignis ICO.

Oh, I didn't know that. I expected it to be like the MonetarySystem where anyone can create currencies as they wish. 
Interesting - so people have to ask the devs for persmission? I don't really get the idea behind that. Isn't that a drawback/barrier?

I've been thinking that maybe NXT (and then Ardor) has a participation problem. I was always surprised how big of a community hardware-mining coins have - even if the marketcaps are small. Maybe it's because people have something interesting to do (buying/developing mining hard and software). Proof of Stake doesn't have that. Ethereum solved it by giving any programmer the freedom to do their own scripts. With NXT/Ardor one could maybe join the core dev team, but that has several barriers. What else is there to keep people interested/busy beyond price speculation?
Logged
ARDOR-BPV3-837M-QZTQ-9DQ69  oxpal.com

wolffang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +98/-5
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 690
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28244 on: November 10, 2016, 06:56:51 am »

So you are implying the investors are buying ARDR because it secures something? How should it grow in price if you are not looking at the forging profits?

Forging income was never worth the investment - since it always was a tiny percentage.
Additionally it was no real transfer of value - since everyone got the same percentage (simplified).

The value can't go to zero, as long as the Ardor-sub currencies have any value. 
Why do you think so? The NXT market cap is several orders of magnitude lower than the market cap of it's assets. The same is true for US dollar as well. The ADRD value won't go to zero but the price may approach zero very closely.

It can not go to zero, else the assets would be unsecured. Anyone could buy all the Ardor and destroy the assets. 
It can be lower than the asset value - as long as it's still a high enough barrier. Should Ardor sub-chains be picked up by significant players, then they would in their self-interest back the value of Ardor.
And doesn't it contradict your first question? If you think that the value itself can go so low, then why would it be worth forging?

Though I guess you're right - there seems to be little reason to expect an explosive rise (except for pure speculation).

The creation of new childchaing will be very restricted first years after the Ardor launch. If it is not I would create NXT2 childchain coin with 100% distribution between NXT holders (not 50%), with 10 seconds block times and 0,1 NXT2 fees. It will effectively ruin the Ignis ICO.

Oh, I didn't know that. I expected it to be like the MonetarySystem where anyone can create currencies as they wish. 
Interesting - so people have to ask the devs for persmission? I don't really get the idea behind that. Isn't that a drawback/barrier?

I've been thinking that maybe NXT (and then Ardor) has a participation problem. I was always surprised how big of a community hardware-mining coins have - even if the marketcaps are small. Maybe it's because people have something interesting to do (buying/developing mining hard and software). Proof of Stake doesn't have that. Ethereum solved it by giving any programmer the freedom to do their own scripts. With NXT/Ardor one could maybe join the core dev team, but that has several barriers. What else is there to keep people interested/busy beyond price speculation?

All the Ardor stuff isnt set to stone yet.
Forging income will be higher with the more transactions and Child chains in Ardor.
The team is working on getting more businesses for the Ardor launch. Look at the first example: Janus.

In the beginning. Probably first year max the Child chains are generated by the core devs before the automatic provisioning will be ready. Dont forget its a whole new system and there will be updates on it. Better to do it in a good  safe way than there will be wild growth of scam chains at first.

Price speculation is done by hyping. Feel free to get into trollboxes, be active on social media etc to promote Nxt and Ardor.....
Logged

websioux

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +69/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 343
  • Great changes grow bottom up
    • View Profile
    • Scriba.io the Blockchain Scribe
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28245 on: November 10, 2016, 08:02:50 am »

What else is there to keep people interested/busy beyond price speculation?

Creating value for others with apps doing things that could not be done before blockchains ?

But this requires a higher spiritual state than to simply be attracted by the idea of "burning" electricity to make a living. So unless this value creation process exploit the greed of making money by running computers (or robots..), this crowd will never be attracted by POS.

If you find some money they can make by runing machines... then you'll have them.


Logged
Secret Miner <= communicate with style | NotBot <= timestamp digital docs

farl4bit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +210/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3464
    • View Profile
    • Blockchain Twitter
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28246 on: November 10, 2016, 10:22:33 am »

So you are implying the investors are buying ARDR because it secures something? How should it grow in price if you are not looking at the forging profits?

Forging income was never worth the investment - since it always was a tiny percentage.
Additionally it was no real transfer of value - since everyone got the same percentage (simplified).

Forging was enough to earn a few NXT to compensate the paid fees for transactions. So NXT is ~free to use.
Logged

Brangdon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +229/-25
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1389
  • Quality is addictive.
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28247 on: November 10, 2016, 01:31:23 pm »

The creation of new childchaing will be very restricted first years after the Ardor launch. If it is not I would create NXT2 childchain coin with 100% distribution between NXT holders (not 50%), with 10 seconds block times and 0,1 NXT2 fees. It will effectively ruin the Ignis ICO.
If it's an Ardor child-chain, I don't see how it can have 10 second block-times. You're NXT2 transactions need to be included in Ardor blocks, which I assume will still be one per minute. Your child-chain won't be able to have faster block-times than Ignis.

Also, we don't know what the Ignis fees will be. Since Ignis transactions are prunable, the fees don't need to be high as a spam deterrent. I'm hoping they will be lower than Nxt fees. In any case, I don't see what would enable your Nxt2 child-chain to have lower fees than Ignis, unless you subsidise Nxt2 by bundling it at a loss.

Since Ardor will be open-source, someone could clone the whole thing and tweak the cloned Ignis distribution. That's possible whether or not child-chain creation is unrestricted within Ardor. I suspect the reasons that prevent Nxt clones from being a big problem will also prevent cloned Ardor child-chains from being a problem. Essentially, network effects and first-mover advantages.

That said, I agree that creating child-chains should be restricted for a while, but for a different reason. We'll need some time to see how it is all working first.
Logged

blackyblack1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +165/-82
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1764
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28248 on: November 10, 2016, 06:18:12 pm »

It can not go to zero, else the assets would be unsecured. Anyone could buy all the Ardor and destroy the assets.
It should not go to zero to stay secure, you're right. But it definitely can go to zero. What you gonna do with it? :)
Surprisingly one cannot buy all Ardor without having the low price.

It can be lower than the asset value - as long as it's still a high enough barrier. Should Ardor sub-chains be picked up by significant players, then they would in their self-interest back the value of Ardor.
How do you think it should work? Let's say NAUT is being listed on Ardor and ARDR drops 50%. The NAUT holders should jump in and start buying ARDR to keep it's price high?

And doesn't it contradict your first question? If you think that the value itself can go so low, then why would it be worth forging?
Because you cannot do anything else with it. Better have tiny + with forging than solid 0 without it.
Logged

blackyblack1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +165/-82
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1764
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28249 on: November 10, 2016, 06:25:12 pm »

The creation of new childchaing will be very restricted first years after the Ardor launch. If it is not I would create NXT2 childchain coin with 100% distribution between NXT holders (not 50%), with 10 seconds block times and 0,1 NXT2 fees. It will effectively ruin the Ignis ICO.
If it's an Ardor child-chain, I don't see how it can have 10 second block-times. You're NXT2 transactions need to be included in Ardor blocks, which I assume will still be one per minute. Your child-chain won't be able to have faster block-times than Ignis.
One can queue childchain blocks and put them all together in Ardor block. I do not see a problem having 10 second block-times in childchains.

Also, we don't know what the Ignis fees will be. Since Ignis transactions are prunable, the fees don't need to be high as a spam deterrent. I'm hoping they will be lower than Nxt fees.
I am quite sure Ignis fees will be exactly equal to the NXT fees.

In any case, I don't see what would enable your Nxt2 child-chain to have lower fees than Ignis, unless you subsidise Nxt2 by bundling it at a loss.
Ignis fees are made up by core devs without any market estimates. I am pretty sure 0,1 NXT fees are possible as well. What stops me doing it?

Since Ardor will be open-source, someone could clone the whole thing and tweak the cloned Ignis distribution. That's possible whether or not child-chain creation is unrestricted within Ardor. I suspect the reasons that prevent Nxt clones from being a big problem will also prevent cloned Ardor child-chains from being a problem. Essentially, network effects and first-mover advantages.
That is a very different thing. My coin will be run on the fully supported and maintained Ardor platform and my distribution will be 100% legit based on NXT distribution snapshot. Hence 0% chance of scam and great adoption. Nothing compared to making own coin by cloning Ardor.
Logged

galeki

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +16/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28250 on: November 10, 2016, 06:38:32 pm »

The creation of new childchaing will be very restricted first years after the Ardor launch. If it is not I would create NXT2 childchain coin with 100% distribution between NXT holders (not 50%), with 10 seconds block times and 0,1 NXT2 fees. It will effectively ruin the Ignis ICO.

Wait, we are not creating Ardor to do that?  :o :o :o
Logged

Brangdon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +229/-25
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1389
  • Quality is addictive.
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28251 on: November 10, 2016, 06:59:09 pm »

The creation of new childchaing will be very restricted first years after the Ardor launch. If it is not I would create NXT2 childchain coin with 100% distribution between NXT holders (not 50%), with 10 seconds block times and 0,1 NXT2 fees. It will effectively ruin the Ignis ICO.
If it's an Ardor child-chain, I don't see how it can have 10 second block-times. You're NXT2 transactions need to be included in Ardor blocks, which I assume will still be one per minute. Your child-chain won't be able to have faster block-times than Ignis.
One can queue childchain blocks and put them all together in Ardor block. I do not see a problem having 10 second block-times in childchains.
I'm not sure that gains you anything over just monitoring transactions as they are broadcast. What stops double-spends, for example? Who puts the child-chain blocks together? How are conflicts between them resolved? Is there some kind of side-chain infrastructure? Are you getting some custom software from somewhere? If you are using the same consensus mechanism that Ignis uses, then it seems to me that you have no resolution for conflicting transactions until the child-chain blocks are added to the Ardor block-chain.

Quote
Also, we don't know what the Ignis fees will be. Since Ignis transactions are prunable, the fees don't need to be high as a spam deterrent. I'm hoping they will be lower than Nxt fees.
I am quite sure Ignis fees will be exactly equal to the NXT fees.
Um, OK. Why? Doesn't that defeat the point of making the Ardor system scalable?

Quote
In any case, I don't see what would enable your Nxt2 child-chain to have lower fees than Ignis, unless you subsidise Nxt2 by bundling it at a loss.
Ignis fees are made up by core devs without any market estimates. I am pretty sure 0,1 NXT fees are possible as well. What stops me doing it?
0.1 NXT fees would make spam attacks easier. The resulting block-chain bloat would have to be carried forever, so this is a serious consideration. If a similar technical reason also prevents low fees for Ignis, I expect it will apply to other child-chains too. If it doesn't, and fee levels come down to a judgement call about income for bundlers/forgers versus reduced friction for users, then who's to say that the call made for Ignis will be wrong?

Quote
My coin will be run on the fully supported and maintained Ardor platform and my distribution will be 100% legit based on NXT distribution snapshot. Hence 0% chance of scam and great adoption. Nothing compared to making own coin by cloning Ardor.
You've not persuaded me that you can have faster block-times or lower fees, so I think your only advantage is the distribution. I agree that is an advantage, so I'll accept that this is another reason to defer making child-chains a free-for-all until after Ignis has established itself.
Logged

blackyblack1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +165/-82
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1764
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28252 on: November 10, 2016, 07:45:53 pm »

The creation of new childchaing will be very restricted first years after the Ardor launch. If it is not I would create NXT2 childchain coin with 100% distribution between NXT holders (not 50%), with 10 seconds block times and 0,1 NXT2 fees. It will effectively ruin the Ignis ICO.
If it's an Ardor child-chain, I don't see how it can have 10 second block-times. You're NXT2 transactions need to be included in Ardor blocks, which I assume will still be one per minute. Your child-chain won't be able to have faster block-times than Ignis.
One can queue childchain blocks and put them all together in Ardor block. I do not see a problem having 10 second block-times in childchains.
I'm not sure that gains you anything over just monitoring transactions as they are broadcast. What stops double-spends, for example? Who puts the child-chain blocks together? How are conflicts between them resolved? Is there some kind of side-chain infrastructure? Are you getting some custom software from somewhere? If you are using the same consensus mechanism that Ignis uses, then it seems to me that you have no resolution for conflicting transactions until the child-chain blocks are added to the Ardor block-chain.
It sounds right. Probably I will be unable to make faster block times without sufficient effort.

Quote
Also, we don't know what the Ignis fees will be. Since Ignis transactions are prunable, the fees don't need to be high as a spam deterrent. I'm hoping they will be lower than Nxt fees.
I am quite sure Ignis fees will be exactly equal to the NXT fees.
Um, OK. Why? Doesn't that defeat the point of making the Ardor system scalable?
No it doesn't. Fees should give incentive to forge and I do not see how current fees make Ardor less scalable.

0.1 NXT fees would make spam attacks easier. The resulting block-chain bloat would have to be carried forever, so this is a serious consideration. If a similar technical reason also prevents low fees for Ignis, I expect it will apply to other child-chains too. If it doesn't, and fee levels come down to a judgement call about income for bundlers/forgers versus reduced friction for users, then who's to say that the call made for Ignis will be wrong?
As a childchain creator should I worry about it? I just made some settings and gave it a go. I think the best way would be to start with zero fees and start auction bidding when blocks are full. Bitcoin works this way and I do not see any issues with it.
Logged

Brangdon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +229/-25
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1389
  • Quality is addictive.
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28253 on: November 11, 2016, 12:10:53 pm »

Quote
Also, we don't know what the Ignis fees will be. Since Ignis transactions are prunable, the fees don't need to be high as a spam deterrent. I'm hoping they will be lower than Nxt fees.
I am quite sure Ignis fees will be exactly equal to the NXT fees.
Um, OK. Why? Doesn't that defeat the point of making the Ardor system scalable?
No it doesn't. Fees should give incentive to forge and I do not see how current fees make Ardor less scalable.
Nxt minimum fees don't give significant incentive to forge. They are as high as they are to prevent spam. Because Ardor is more scalable, its minimum fees don't need to be as high, at least for child-chains. It's not that high minimum fees make Ardor less scalable; it's that if it has high minimum fees, some of the benefit of scalability is being wasted.

I say "minimum fees" because of course, forgers and bundlers can impose higher fees if they want.

Quote
0.1 NXT fees would make spam attacks easier. The resulting block-chain bloat would have to be carried forever, so this is a serious consideration. If a similar technical reason also prevents low fees for Ignis, I expect it will apply to other child-chains too. If it doesn't, and fee levels come down to a judgement call about income for bundlers/forgers versus reduced friction for users, then who's to say that the call made for Ignis will be wrong?
As a childchain creator should I worry about it? I just made some settings and gave it a go. I think the best way would be to start with zero fees and start auction bidding when blocks are full. Bitcoin works this way and I do not see any issues with it.
Now I realise I have no idea how minimum fees are going to be set for child-chains. My impression is that the devs are against child-chains having a formal "owner" with special rights attached to an owner's public key, in case that key gets lost. This is why anyone can bundle transactions into child-chain blocks. So minimum fees probably won't be set by the person who created the child-chain. So they'll be set by the devs, and be the same for all child-chains?

The problem with zero-fees is spam. Bitcoin has some defences against spam, such as coin-age. Whether it has issues is debatable. You need around ~75GB to run a full Bitcoin node now, and some fraction of that is "free" transactions that every full node has to store. Ardor has pruning for child-chain transactions, but transactions will still need to be propagated and stored for 24 hours, and some nodes will want to store the entire history, so allowing a rogue forger to produce gigabytes of free transactions may not be wise.

One approach might to say that some fraction of all Ardor fees are paid, not to the node that forges, but to the following nodes. Currently this is done in Nxt for certain high-fee transactions. It was felt to be too big a change to do for all transactions in Nxt, but Ardor is starting with a clean slate so could consider it. If this was done, and Ardor forgers were having to pay fees for their own blocks, then that would mitigate spam and then maybe there would need to be no lower-limit for child-chain fees. Just a lower limit for the Ardor transactions that include them.

I don't know. There's still a lot about the Ardor design that we don't know.
Logged

gh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +19/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
    • NXT Chart
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28254 on: November 12, 2016, 04:24:54 pm »

.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 05:39:23 pm by gh »
Logged

farl4bit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +210/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3464
    • View Profile
    • Blockchain Twitter
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28255 on: November 12, 2016, 05:56:19 pm »

So good time to buy more $ARDR?  8)
Logged

rubenbc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +186/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1304
  • I'm here and you?
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28256 on: November 12, 2016, 11:39:48 pm »

Nxt news – November 2016 (I): There is no friend as loyal as a book

http://nxter.org/nxt-news-november-2016-i-there-is-no-friend-as-loyal-as-a-book/

ThomasVeil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +183/-11
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1400
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28257 on: November 13, 2016, 10:57:41 am »

It can be lower than the asset value - as long as it's still a high enough barrier. Should Ardor sub-chains be picked up by significant players, then they would in their self-interest back the value of Ardor.
How do you think it should work? Let's say NAUT is being listed on Ardor and ARDR drops 50%. The NAUT holders should jump in and start buying ARDR to keep it's price high?

Yes, any serious users would do that. If you create an Ardor product you know this in the first place: you will have to do your part to support the network to have security. It's the same as setting up NXT nodes.

And doesn't it contradict your first question? If you think that the value itself can go so low, then why would it be worth forging?
Because you cannot do anything else with it. Better have tiny + with forging than solid 0 without it.

? I can invest in tons of things and get more return than 0.1% of (in this case) valueless Ardor fees.
I.e. I could just put my money in Ignis and even a rise of 1% in a year would be better. Even the average stock market (or Bitcoin) will likely do better than that.

[...] so I'll accept that this is another reason to defer making child-chains a free-for-all until after Ignis has established itself.

That's the part I'm not getting. How is Ignis supposed to establish itself? It is by all means, except for name, NXT2. It will have to compete with the general market plus it's older self.
We gain scalability - but that wasn't an issue yet.
Else the new feature is the decoupling from NXT - which will make third-party financial apps more feasible. And that's the part we defer?

Logged
ARDOR-BPV3-837M-QZTQ-9DQ69  oxpal.com

blackyblack1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +165/-82
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1764
    • View Profile
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28258 on: November 13, 2016, 02:08:00 pm »

It can be lower than the asset value - as long as it's still a high enough barrier. Should Ardor sub-chains be picked up by significant players, then they would in their self-interest back the value of Ardor.
How do you think it should work? Let's say NAUT is being listed on Ardor and ARDR drops 50%. The NAUT holders should jump in and start buying ARDR to keep it's price high?

Yes, any serious users would do that. If you create an Ardor product you know this in the first place: you will have to do your part to support the network to have security. It's the same as setting up NXT nodes.
I highly doubt you words. Never seen anyone rushing to buy a crashing coin in order to support it's security.

And doesn't it contradict your first question? If you think that the value itself can go so low, then why would it be worth forging?
Because you cannot do anything else with it. Better have tiny + with forging than solid 0 without it.

? I can invest in tons of things and get more return than 0.1% of (in this case) valueless Ardor fees.
I.e. I could just put my money in Ignis and even a rise of 1% in a year would be better. Even the average stock market (or Bitcoin) will likely do better than that.
If you do not hold any ARDR it is the best solution. But if you are a holder there is a choice of just holding or holding and forging.
Logged

farl4bit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +210/-45
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3464
    • View Profile
    • Blockchain Twitter
Re: Price speculation
« Reply #28259 on: November 13, 2016, 11:00:34 pm »

Nxt news – November 2016 (I): There is no friend as loyal as a book

http://nxter.org/nxt-news-november-2016-i-there-is-no-friend-as-loyal-as-a-book/

Thanks for this!!   :-*
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 1411 1412 [1413] 1414 1415 ... 1456
 

elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
assembly
assembly