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Klokan

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26500 on: February 10, 2016, 12:25:01 am »

ETH is going parabolic...  :P

That's really interesting. Anyway, is somebody observing development & progress in/with Ethereum? Is there already a "real network", I mean - can I build Ethereum node and rent "computing power" (due to smart contracts?) for some Ether revenue, etc...or is the current huge volume & marketcap of Ethereum just a result of a pure speculation on exchanges and nothing more (yet) ?

In any case, I'm curious, if we'll able to see similar "marketcap progress" of NXT somewhere in the future...
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Kiomansk

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26501 on: February 10, 2016, 05:26:40 am »

ETH is going parabolic...  :P

That's really interesting. Anyway, is somebody observing development & progress in/with Ethereum? Is there already a "real network", I mean - can I build Ethereum node and rent "computing power" (due to smart contracts?) for some Ether revenue, etc...or is the current huge volume & marketcap of Ethereum just a result of a pure speculation on exchanges and nothing more (yet) ?

In any case, I'm curious, if we'll able to see similar "marketcap progress" of NXT somewhere in the future...
Allow me to be the hyper bear of reason for a moment.

Why use cryptos? What do they offer the average consumer?

It can't be speed, setting up and account for ANY crypto requires a pretty hefty understanding of how to use computers. Go here, download this. Run this client (perhaps unpack it) let a protocol update for a day or more (at the very least hours) and then you're good to go!

How do I acquire it? Oh, you'll have to find someone who uses it and will sell it to you or use an exchange. So you gotta go somewhere else, register this, which makes your account matched to an IP (What was that about these things again? Oh yeah, they're anonymous!) Trade on an exchange, probably buying from Coinbase. (Also IP and account bound.) So you can have a nice fast transaction speed of possibly minutes to hours.

You also get better security. You just have to do all the previous steps we discussed then research the best client for giving you the security level that best suits your need. But don't worry, if your security were to get compromised, it's 100% on you and you have no hope of recourse were it a case of your wallet being stolen from.

But this all comes with the great benefit of being able to use features you have to figure all of that out for in order to research them and try to turn them into a positive force in your life. (It'll take a lot of work on your end.)

I don't care what the crypto is, none of this technology is friendly for average users. I just can't see an incentive for most people to even care about cryptos.

That having been said, I think that should be the case. It's a space that should be a little slower paced as new ideas are tested and either found to be useful or trash.

No clue who will win but I honestly think NXT is heading the right direction of shitty hard work that doesn't get much attention but lays out the line to enable great use cases. I'm thrown back to the story of the guy who popularized Ethranet cables. He said he didn't even engineer them, he just busted his ass off getting other people interested in how they could be used.
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komputor

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26502 on: February 10, 2016, 06:11:39 am »

Ethereum is like a money magnet. It just keeps on attracting more and more.
The interfacing is still command line and frontier is not exactly 100% stable. Yet so much money keeps on flowing into eth coffers.

From my guess, this is just pure speculation / exchange money. I doubt this parabolic rise is due to real demand for the tokens.
I could be wrong though, maybe large corporates are mass buying eth.
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TheWireMaster

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26503 on: February 10, 2016, 06:34:42 am »



Allow me to be the hyper bear of reason for a moment.

Why use cryptos? What do they offer the average consumer?

It can't be speed, setting up and account for ANY crypto requires a pretty hefty understanding of how to use computers. Go here, download this. Run this client (perhaps unpack it) let a protocol update for a day or more (at the very least hours) and then you're good to go!

How do I acquire it? Oh, you'll have to find someone who uses it and will sell it to you or use an exchange. So you gotta go somewhere else, register this, which makes your account matched to an IP (What was that about these things again? Oh yeah, they're anonymous!) Trade on an exchange, probably buying from Coinbase. (Also IP and account bound.) So you can have a nice fast transaction speed of possibly minutes to hours.

You also get better security. You just have to do all the previous steps we discussed then research the best client for giving you the security level that best suits your need. But don't worry, if your security were to get compromised, it's 100% on you and you have no hope of recourse were it a case of your wallet being stolen from.

But this all comes with the great benefit of being able to use features you have to figure all of that out for in order to research them and try to turn them into a positive force in your life. (It'll take a lot of work on your end.)

I don't care what the crypto is, none of this technology is friendly for average users. I just can't see an incentive for most people to even care about cryptos.

That having been said, I think that should be the case. It's a space that should be a little slower paced as new ideas are tested and either found to be useful or trash.

No clue who will win but I honestly think NXT is heading the right direction of shitty hard work that doesn't get much attention but lays out the line to enable great use cases. I'm thrown back to the story of the guy who popularized Ethranet cables. He said he didn't even engineer them, he just busted his ass off getting other people interested in how they could be used.

I agree with all you wrote. :)
At the end I guess that NXT2.0 can really change this space.
To get more attention I guess there has to be some serious marketing work or some serious project financed via the AE that gets the public attention.
In any case one thing we can all do is try to send some information about NXT to journalists that like technology but that are not crypto exclusive writers. There are potentially millions of enthusiasts out there that just don't know that yet.
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box1413

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26504 on: February 10, 2016, 06:49:22 am »

question is... how can nxt make use of ethereum's publicity as of lately? piggy back on top of it somehow.
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TheWireMaster

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26505 on: February 10, 2016, 06:58:36 am »


Ethereum is like a money magnet. It just keeps on attracting more and more.
The interfacing is still command line and frontier is not exactly 100% stable. Yet so much money keeps on flowing into eth coffers.

From my guess, this is just pure speculation / exchange money. I doubt this parabolic rise is due to real demand for the tokens.
I could be wrong though, maybe large corporates are mass buying eth.

Possibly the last bit. It seems fishy how the pump continues without a usable system. Even a lot of the shittiest of shitcoins have an actual wallet for sending and receiving tokens. It's well known that Ethereum has a lot of corporate funding, so I'm left wondering if it's "the establishment" getting in on crypto. It's a scary thought if that is the case and Ethereum overtakes Bitccoin, since the yardstick by which we evaluate (or price) other cryptos will be a corporate backed entity.

I also cannot see the value in the current technology they have.
I guess the big money goes where there is a official company with an organization behind, etc. they do have a company and an organization and I guess that investors with big money like that rather than a platform that one day can be modified by an unidentifiable community.
But not sure NXT aims to get controlled by big money holders. ;)
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mikesbmw

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26506 on: February 10, 2016, 07:53:00 am »

Ethereum is like a money magnet. It just keeps on attracting more and more.
The interfacing is still command line and frontier is not exactly 100% stable. Yet so much money keeps on flowing into eth coffers.

From my guess, this is just pure speculation / exchange money. I doubt this parabolic rise is due to real demand for the tokens.
I could be wrong though, maybe large corporates are mass buying eth.
Looking back at the start of NXT the same thing happend.
It kept skyrocketing for a while. That lasted almost 1,5 months.
Then a major drop and things started picking up again from all the good news and visiting all the expos.

If the same thing happens to Ethereum, we are still in for a ride  ;)
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EvilDave

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26507 on: February 10, 2016, 08:07:13 am »

Here's my 2 NXT on the current crypto/Nxt situation:

Ethereum could be a blessing in disguise. Eth has been in develoment for almost as long as Nxt, let's not forget, and they have had a LOT more investment capital to burn. Ethereum also looks like a useful system, with serious development going on. In fact, they look a lot like Nxt in some ways.....but Ethereum is not the same as Nxt, and I dont see Nxt and Eth as in direct competition for market space.

The fact that so much investment is going into Ethereum now tells me that the crypto world is still wide open for Nxt for succeed. Just need to keep on producing good stuff and showing some patience.....
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Stadtfeger

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26508 on: February 10, 2016, 08:11:14 am »

NXT price is......... not good  ;D too many people sell NXT to buy ETH ... but i know the will come back  ;)
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Stadtfeger

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26509 on: February 10, 2016, 08:11:30 am »

NXT price is......... not good  ;D too many people sell NXT to buy ETH ... but i know they will come back  ;)
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XIII

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26510 on: February 10, 2016, 08:46:40 am »

Who knows or can provide a code, how to run a request to get a rich list of 500 or 1000 richest accounts? It seems, distribution has changed since autumn.

You can get a current list from your own NRS node here: https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/whales-does-it-hurt-nxt-in-a-security-and-a-social-sense/msg201014/#msg201014

Cool! Thanks a lot!  :)
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alxx77

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26511 on: February 10, 2016, 08:51:46 am »

24hrs ETH volume equals BTC volume...  :P
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Cassius

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26512 on: February 10, 2016, 09:12:43 am »

question is... how can nxt make use of ethereum's publicity as of lately? piggy back on top of it somehow.

Applications.
Nxt as a community needs to make more Stuff. Whether it succeeds or fails can't be known beforehand but treating initiatives like hobbyist projects is a good place to start - i.e. doing it because it's fun and cool. In this instance, perhaps there are ways of executing Nxt transactions using smart contracts, thereby accessing elements that Ethereum does not yet have in a new way. I don't suppose it would be complicated.
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maddy83

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26513 on: February 10, 2016, 09:46:40 am »

It's a scary thought if that is the case and Ethereum overtakes Bitccoin, since the yardstick by which we evaluate (or price) other cryptos will be a corporate backed entity.

Why is that scary? I think organization-backed crypto is the way to go.

The idea of a "decentralized" or "community run" crypto has failed. The three biggest cryptos are Bitcoin, Ethereum and Ripple. The last two have a centralized organization behind them. Bitcoin is somewhere in between, but I would argue it is having problems only because it doesn't have a strong centralized leadership. Thus we have silly debates about block size and forks which should have been resolved in a week.

I guess the big money goes where there is a official company with an organization behind, etc. they do have a company and an organization and I guess that investors with big money like that rather than a platform that one day can be modified by an unidentifiable community.

This is precisely why NXT and 99% of crypto will continue to be "monopoly money" for geeks to play around with, but they will not attract serious investors.
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lurker10

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26514 on: February 10, 2016, 10:24:15 am »

Why is that scary? I think organization-backed crypto is the way to go.

The idea of a "decentralized" or "community run" crypto has failed. The three biggest cryptos are Bitcoin, Ethereum and Ripple. The last two have a centralized organization behind them. Bitcoin is somewhere in between, but I would argue it is having problems only because it doesn't have a strong centralized leadership. Thus we have silly debates about block size and forks which should have been resolved in a week.

What has failed in the idea of decentralized crypto?
What is real world usage for Ethereum and Ripple?

Ethereum doesn't have a GUI wallet, 98% of this price and trading volume is pure speculation, 2% usage at best. Traders will sober up as they always did in the past.

Organization-backed crypto is fiat money done in a convoluted inconvenient way. Why bother? Just use the old system, it's more convenient and faster.

The choice is binary: decentralization or the old system. Organization-backed crypto will be made censorship compliant.

"Serious" investors will be bailed in, their accounts frozen in an organization-backed crypto. Some will manage to escape to decentralized systems.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/405kqy/cant_access_my_ripple_accounts/
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:34:53 am by lurker10 »
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MrCluster87

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26515 on: February 10, 2016, 11:54:13 am »

please guys chip in: https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/test-to-join-the-hyperledger-project/


It's a scary thought if that is the case and Ethereum overtakes Bitccoin, since the yardstick by which we evaluate (or price) other cryptos will be a corporate backed entity.

Why is that scary? I think organization-backed crypto is the way to go.

The idea of a "decentralized" or "community run" crypto has failed. The three biggest cryptos are Bitcoin, Ethereum and Ripple. The last two have a centralized organization behind them. Bitcoin is somewhere in between, but I would argue it is having problems only because it doesn't have a strong centralized leadership. Thus we have silly debates about block size and forks which should have been resolved in a week.

I guess the big money goes where there is a official company with an organization behind, etc. they do have a company and an organization and I guess that investors with big money like that rather than a platform that one day can be modified by an unidentifiable community.

This is precisely why NXT and 99% of crypto will continue to be "monopoly money" for geeks to play around with, but they will not attract serious investors.

mikesbmw

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26516 on: February 10, 2016, 12:04:09 pm »


What has failed in the idea of decentralized crypto?
What is real world usage for Ethereum and Ripple?

Ethereum doesn't have a GUI wallet, 98% of this price and trading volume is pure speculation, 2% usage at best. Traders will sober up as they always did in the past.

Organization-backed crypto is fiat money done in a convoluted inconvenient way. Why bother? Just use the old system, it's more convenient and faster.

The choice is binary: decentralization or the old system. Organization-backed crypto will be made censorship compliant.

"Serious" investors will be bailed in, their accounts frozen in an organization-backed crypto. Some will manage to escape to decentralized systems.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/405kqy/cant_access_my_ripple_accounts/

"What is real world usage for Ethereum and Ripple?

Ethereum doesn't have a GUI wallet, 98% of this price and trading volume is pure speculation, 2% usage at best. Traders will sober up as they always did in the past."


What is the real world usage of NXT? I'm not trying to piss in my own bed, but you have to stay realistic.
The potential of Ethereum is HUGE (now, that is). They attracted the attention of large companies and large capital for a start.
Their IPO was very large (the largest ever in crypto?).

"Organization-backed crypto is fiat money done in a convoluted inconvenient way. Why bother? Just use the old system, it's more convenient and faster.

ALL crypto is the same, since the real world uses fiat.
You need fiat to BUY crypto. If you want to do anything useful with it, you need to convert it back to....fiat.
So how is NXT or any other crypto different?

Decentralization is nice from a technical point of view. From a management point of view it's absolute horror.
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lurker10

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26517 on: February 10, 2016, 12:18:27 pm »

What is the real world usage of NXT? I'm not trying to piss in my own bed, but you have to stay realistic.
The potential of Ethereum is HUGE

The real world usage of NXT is small now, and this fact is reflected in the price, speculation component in NXT price is close to 0%. The real world usage of Ethereum is not any larger, I'd argue it's less than NXT, but the price is way above, speculation component is closer to 100%. What is the conclusion? It's hype. The potential. The potential of NXT is not smaller. The potential = hopes, not reality, your advice to stay realistic goes against your own words.

Quote
ALL crypto is the same, since the real world uses fiat.
You need fiat to BUY crypto. If you want to do anything useful with it, you need to convert it back to....fiat.
So how is NXT or any other crypto different?

Decentralization is nice from a technical point of view. From a management point of view it's absolute horror.

You're right in the paradigm of the current financial system, where fiat keeps on corroding the value storage and transfer systems of the world. There are signs the fiat system is dying. What if I told you that in the future you won't need to convert crypto to fiat to do anything useful with it? Yes, it's hard to believe now. If I am wrong, and this doesn't happen, organization-backed centralized crypto will turn into fiat, subjected to all the compliance rules and regulations. And then they will certainly inflate it without limits as they inflate fiat. So no, my hope is that not all crypto is the same.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 12:40:33 pm by lurker10 »
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maddy83

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26518 on: February 10, 2016, 12:46:20 pm »

What has failed in the idea of decentralized crypto?

The same thing that has failed in all "decentralized" and "community run" ideas. The same reason why communism doesn't work.

People need structure and leadership to work efficiently. There is a reason why armies have generals and why companies have CEOs.

I think the best solution is an organization which is decentralized at the grass roots level, but still has a strong centralized leadership. A good example of this is the Linux kernel development. It has thousands of coders, everyone basically doing their own thing, but then there is one guy who is basically a dictator (Linus Torvalds). If you want to see a project that is working efficiently, look no further.

The people that we looked up to as leaders in NXT have failed us (CfB, jl777). I am glad Jean-Luc is still with us!
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lurker10

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26519 on: February 10, 2016, 01:15:19 pm »

The people that we looked up to as leaders in NXT have failed us (CfB, jl777). I am glad Jean-Luc is still with us!

Oh my God. Do you always need a baby-sitter?

Communism doesn't work because it destroys creative motivation by expropriating fruits of labor and because it runs out of other people's money. Did you mean to say democracy doesn't work?

The example of Linus Torvalds is not a good example for crypto, I've heard it many times. Linus Torvalds is responsible for developing the kernel, the kernel does nothing more than low level calls for hardware. The Linux operating system exists in many incarnations because there are many visions for what it should be. Crypto doesn't have a kernel with basic system call functions that everyone agrees on. The benevolent dictator role is less applicable in crypto than in the limited field of OS kernel development.
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