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Author Topic: Price speculation  (Read 3797595 times)

websioux

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26380 on: January 30, 2016, 06:32:05 pm »

You'd write a piece of javascript/typescript/coffee whatever your flavor.

Stick it in a services folder inside your NXT install and have the core load that piece of code (all hail the nashorn) now whenever some transaction triggers the listeners in your script it will do 'something' for instance shuffle.

No need for no jquery plugin whatsoever, will run just as easily on your desktop as on your server...

+1440 -  this opens a lot of opportunities !
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verymuchso

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26381 on: January 30, 2016, 06:43:59 pm »

You'd write a piece of javascript/typescript/coffee whatever your flavor.

Stick it in a services folder inside your NXT install and have the core load that piece of code (all hail the nashorn) now whenever some transaction triggers the listeners in your script it will do 'something' for instance shuffle.

No need for no jquery plugin whatsoever, will run just as easily on your desktop as on your server...

+1440 -  this opens a lot of opportunities !

Damned right it does.
The blockchain as a decentralized rewindable message bus, lots more is possible if you look beyond the coin aspect of it all.
And of all the blockchain containers NXT is damn near the top of the possible hosts of such a feature.
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Brangdon

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26382 on: January 31, 2016, 10:16:22 am »

^^ Your first point is one of the reasons I've been slow to shuffle on MainNet. We should be clear about which shuffles are just for testing and which for real anonymity.
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26384 on: January 31, 2016, 04:42:50 pm »

Shuffling 8013583978537097563 is waiting for account NXT-6A4Q-L7L6-LAL7-GA2NJ to submit processing transaction. The owner of this account, make sure your shuffler is running. Otherwise it will fail in about an hour, which will cost you 1000 NXT.
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Damelon

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« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 06:25:11 pm by Damelon »
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lurker10

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26386 on: January 31, 2016, 06:22:09 pm »

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Damelon

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maddy83

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26388 on: January 31, 2016, 08:37:44 pm »

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lurker10

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26389 on: January 31, 2016, 09:19:25 pm »

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MrV777

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26390 on: January 31, 2016, 10:08:56 pm »

Shuffling 8013583978537097563 is waiting for account NXT-6A4Q-L7L6-LAL7-GA2NJ to submit processing transaction. The owner of this account, make sure your shuffler is running. Otherwise it will fail in about an hour, which will cost you 1000 NXT.

He didn't do it and the shuffle failed. It's going to get exponentially more difficult to complete a shuffle with more participants, which is what is required for increased anonymity. I believe we have ourselves a paradox. :-/

My quick thoughts on this shuffling issue is that once NXT grows, this shouldn't be as big an issue.  I think right now there just aren't enough active NXT users, especially ones that are trying to shuffle.  If we had the bitcoin user base....  :)
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farl4bit

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26391 on: February 01, 2016, 09:14:51 am »

Coin Shuffling seems to go the same way as Monetary System..? A nice technical feature, but not user-friendly and practical. We need to optimize our cool new features more, so the mass understands them and want to use them. Otherwise it's pointless and lost of development time.
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blackyblack1

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26392 on: February 01, 2016, 09:17:45 am »

Coin Shuffling seems to go the same way as Monetary System..? A nice technical feature, but not user-friendly and practical. We need to optimize our cool new features more, so the mass understands them and want to use them. Otherwise it's pointless and lost of development time.
Exactly my point. We should discuss features in development to find the best and easiest use case for them before they are coded and ready for deployment. Or just drop them if there is no clear use case.
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26393 on: February 01, 2016, 09:44:02 am »

Every participant needs to have their node running for X amount of hours whilst shuffling is carried out. We currently have shuffles of 10 people on average: people who are generally seen as 'early adopters' or 'technology enthusiasts'. If we can't even manage to get a group of ten keeping their nodes in check then what happens when we have 100's of people shuffling?
A shuffling of 10 participants can take less than 15 min to complete. Waiting to find people willing to shuffle is what takes hours and days, and this is because we have very few users in general. If we have hundreds of people shuffling at any given time, this will not be a problem. Until that happens, what we should do is agree on a specific time every week, Sunday afternoon, to do shuffling. And create the shufflings with a short registration period, say 4 hours. If not enough participants show during that time, the shuffling is cancelled and you don't need to keep your node running for days waiting for more to register.
 
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farl4bit

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26394 on: February 01, 2016, 09:54:40 am »

Dividend paid!

FARLAWEB (17491339106794048806) Total issued assets: 10000000, Assets to be distributed to: 138375
Summary of proposed distribution of 32725.6875 NXT to 68 assetholders
Based on ownership at timestamp 69025767

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sadface

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26395 on: February 01, 2016, 10:50:59 am »

Shuffling 8013583978537097563 is waiting for account NXT-6A4Q-L7L6-LAL7-GA2NJ to submit processing transaction. The owner of this account, make sure your shuffler is running. Otherwise it will fail in about an hour, which will cost you 1000 NXT.

He didn't do it and the shuffle failed. It's going to get exponentially more difficult to complete a shuffle with more participants, which is what is required for increased anonymity. I believe we have ourselves a paradox. :-/

i already see threads like "why did i lose 1000nxt" and "someone stole 1000nxt from me", if this ever gets more usage. how did that 1000nxt fine came about? is there any calculation to it?
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remix

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26396 on: February 01, 2016, 10:53:16 am »

Coin Shuffling seems to go the same way as Monetary System..? A nice technical feature, but not user-friendly and practical. We need to optimize our cool new features more, so the mass understands them and want to use them. Otherwise it's pointless and lost of development time.

A completely public blockchain is just horrible. Coin Shuffling is a big improvement to that. Also adding it later could have caused a political fight.

But I agree that the developers should try to convince the users/community that features are  needed/user-friendly before implementing them.
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Damelon

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26397 on: February 01, 2016, 11:44:19 am »

Coin Shuffling seems to go the same way as Monetary System..? A nice technical feature, but not user-friendly and practical. We need to optimize our cool new features more, so the mass understands them and want to use them. Otherwise it's pointless and lost of development time.

Why do you think MS is not going well?

I know of projects being developed for it behind the scenes.

Yes, the MS in the client may be difficult, but it's not that bad via the API.

I personally don't see a need for features to be "directly succesful" at all, which seems to be what requests are based on. I agree with this with Buterin who explains why the "killer app" just won't happen.

Coin Shuffling seems to go the same way as Monetary System..? A nice technical feature, but not user-friendly and practical. We need to optimize our cool new features more, so the mass understands them and want to use them. Otherwise it's pointless and lost of development time.
Exactly my point. We should discuss features in development to find the best and easiest use case for them before they are coded and ready for deployment. Or just drop them if there is no clear use case.

Shuffling was discussed, for one and a half year!:

https://nxtforum.org/privacy/coin-shuffling/ (May 30, 2014)
https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issues/135/coin-shuffling-monetary-system (Nov. 3rd, 2014)
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/monetary-system-documentation/ (Nov. 3rd, 2014)
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/alright-ms-launches-tomorrow-what's-next/ (Jan. 09 2015)
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/ms-coin-for-shuffling-nxt/ (Jan 8, 2015)
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/coin-shuffling-design-decision/ (July 18, 2015)

There was plenty of opportunity to get into the discussion, but only at the last stage, when the design was finalised and tested by Tim Ruffing (which also takes time to organise) some people started to go against it completely.

That's just too late and to then use it as an example of "the devs are making shit decisions without asking the community" is just a complete distortion of facts. There has, even before the new forum threads, been extensive contact with whomever took the time to be involved.

I'm sorry, but I get an itch when I see such blatant attacks being made that are contrary to the facts. A quick forum search could have showed you differently.

An aside: what would have happen if the discussion was had in the format you desired and people still would vote for it? Because as you can see in the threads, people were very much FOR shuffling when it was proposed. They considered it a very valuable new feature that would set NXT apart from other cryptos. Would you go with the will of the community or not?

If I come off as angry, it's because I am. Shuffling was not a unilateral decision. The devs did not push it on the community. When it was announced, it was welcomed and of course the devs then felt confident to start developing it.
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blackyblack1

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26398 on: February 01, 2016, 12:00:49 pm »

Shuffling was discussed, for one and a half year!:

https://nxtforum.org/privacy/coin-shuffling/ (May 30, 2014)
https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issues/135/coin-shuffling-monetary-system (Nov. 3rd, 2014)
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/monetary-system-documentation/ (Nov. 3rd, 2014)
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/alright-ms-launches-tomorrow-what's-next/ (Jan. 09 2015)
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/ms-coin-for-shuffling-nxt/ (Jan 8, 2015)
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/coin-shuffling-design-decision/ (July 18, 2015)
Of all links only bitbucket has a proper use case description. And unfortunately I do not visit bitbucket for checking current issues. My bad.
Now I see that there is actually a use case description before the feature is ready but it was not visible for me (even though I am checking through the forum very carefully).
I think there is a place for improvement here...
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blackyblack1

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #26399 on: February 01, 2016, 12:08:50 pm »

An aside: what would have happen if the discussion was had in the format you desired and people still would vote for it? Because as you can see in the threads, people were very much FOR shuffling when it was proposed. They considered it a very valuable new feature that would set NXT apart from other cryptos. Would you go with the will of the community or not?
You are completely getting me wrong. I am not here to push my idea or vote for or against new features. There is only one dude making the decisions and I am not here to take this duty. I want to discuss use cases to show clearly the weak points of the new design so it could be fixed in advance.
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