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Author Topic: Price speculation  (Read 4212458 times)

rlh

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16160 on: December 30, 2014, 12:22:38 pm »

There are over 600 crypto currencies in existence. You can't really say there hasn't been evolution...
When I recall the evolution of Internet as I lived it, in the early 90's, the concept had started and some people were using it. A little.
By 1995 it was going mainstream, with a lot of geeks jumping in.
But the year 2000 was over before we really saw the big picture, with large access providers, Google growing, Facebook (2004), Amazon (first profit in 2001), etc.
It takes some years to settle in...

Additionally, the internet used by the masses in 2000 was not like the web used in the early 90s (telnet email in the late 90s, for example, vs gmail now). When people don't realise they are using crypto, or don't need to know, then it will have come of age.

I apologize, I typed that out on my phone, only 5-10 minutes after I awoke.  My point isn't that there hasn't been innovation and evolution-- it's that the early adopters (e.g. the ones with the most influence, money and strongest "outsider" relationships) refuse to embrace evolution.

Imagine if Vint Cerf dogged on Tim Berners-Lee and claimed that there was no further need to standardize on top of TCP/IP.  Furthermore, imagine if all of Vint's long-time, well known constituents agreed with him.  This would have greatly stifled, if not completely stopped, the ubiquitous spread of the internet as we know it.
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DoM P

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16161 on: December 30, 2014, 12:31:33 pm »

There are over 600 crypto currencies in existence. You can't really say there hasn't been evolution...
When I recall the evolution of Internet as I lived it, in the early 90's, the concept had started and some people were using it. A little.
By 1995 it was going mainstream, with a lot of geeks jumping in.
But the year 2000 was over before we really saw the big picture, with large access providers, Google growing, Facebook (2004), Amazon (first profit in 2001), etc.
It takes some years to settle in...

Additionally, the internet used by the masses in 2000 was not like the web used in the early 90s (telnet email in the late 90s, for example, vs gmail now). When people don't realise they are using crypto, or don't need to know, then it will have come of age.

I apologize, I typed that out on my phone, only 5-10 minutes after I awoke.  My point isn't that there hasn't been innovation and evolution-- it's that the early adopters (e.g. the ones with the most influence, money and strongest "outsider" relationships) refuse to embrace evolution.

Imagine if Vint Cerf dogged on Tim Berners-Lee and claimed that there was no further need to standardize on top of TCP/IP.  Furthermore, imagine if all of Vint's long-time, well known constituents agreed with him.  This would have greatly stifled, if not completely stopped, the ubiquitous spread of the internet as we know it.
Or not.

Things are generally done because there is a need. If some people say there is no need despite of the fact that there is one, some other people fill the gap.
That's us. Right here.
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Cassius

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16162 on: December 30, 2014, 12:40:33 pm »

This is true. I tend to believe that if there is a financial incentive for something to happen, then it will. (Come to think of it, that might be called 'Capitalism'.)
It Bitcoin and Bitcoiners aren't going to carry the torch and solve real-world problems, then someone else will - namely us, amongst others.
I think this is what the current 'crisis' in crypto and the long bear market is about: the adoption gap. Simply, people have realised that 'Because Crypto!!!' isn't enough any more. The idea needs to be turned into meaningful reality.
In other words, this is/was our dotcom crash.
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rlh

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16163 on: December 30, 2014, 12:43:34 pm »

And I don't disagree, which is why I mentioned Jinn and Lyth.  These are two different, real-world applications that build off of cryptocurrency.  Since the people who currently hold the larger medias attention are still worshipping BTC, we need new projects that can show people the tech, even if they aren't immediately interested in the purpose of crypto.  In other words, for this movement to change the world, much of the broader public needs to have an "Aha!" moment.  That started to happen when Greece began to seize citizen bank accounts and people started to move capital to BTC.  However, the synergy fizzled when the economy started to get better AND MtGox crashed.

My point is, if the general public knows anything about crypto, it's about the major events centered around Bitcoin.  At best, BTC is seen as an investment "oddity" worth holding as a hedge.  However, as Nxt (and many other currencies have proven) the application can be greatly improved and the core-functionality can open the door to many amazing things.

What we need is to have something (and I hope that "something" is built on top of Nxt or a couple other projects that I follow) break out of the shadows of BTC, and grab the attention of the average joe.
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Damelon

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16164 on: December 30, 2014, 12:53:43 pm »

Imagine if Vint Cerf dogged on Tim Berners-Lee and claimed that there was no further need to standardize on top of TCP/IP.  Furthermore, imagine if all of Vint's long-time, well known constituents agreed with him.  This would have greatly stifled, if not completely stopped, the ubiquitous spread of the internet as we know it.

This is a version of the "single cause" fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_the_single_cause

With hindsight, you could theorise this is what would have happened. Chances are equally high some of the other players would have done something else.

"Single cause" thinking tends to lead to tunnel vision and often leads one to lose sight of the bigger picture.

Before, for instance, Facebook, most people would have thought that Social networking was going to evolve along the lines of Myspace. Along comes FB, who uses a completely different model and Myspace like sites all but disappear or go to another niche. Zuckerberg didn't care what the main mindspace was, he made his own thing and in doing so created a new space for himself.

In the late 1900s, there was a poll in London how the inner city would look in the year 2000. They predicted some kind of vacuum system in the streets to suck away the horse manure. Nót cars. Why? Because that didn't fit in their concept of the world: ie. for them it was literally unthinkable.

For us, a lot is unthinkable, too. We predict the future in terms of the past and present, and will often be dead wrong. We are seeing our little corner of the crypto world, but as I point out often: if you only look in the crypto world, you get a very, véry skewed view of what is going on. Bitcointalk is looking only to itself and everyone who does will be surprised the outside world doesn't care one bit about what they say.

Not one bit? Nope, not one silly bit.

We've only just scratched the surface of what is possible. Bitcoin máy change. Another revolutionary idea may come along to supplant 2.0. It probably will.
I am positive, myself.  :)
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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16165 on: December 30, 2014, 12:57:19 pm »

There are plenty of very promising projects based on Nxt technology (That's the point of NxtInside, to show it off).
The Asset Exchange is, to me, revolutionary.
MGW is really promising, too.
And monetary system.
And Marketplace.

On top of these services, some tools are created: Melodius, Nxtty, Lyth, etc.
From the AE, some interesting things are created too. I love the possibility to create mutual funds based on it. James created Sharkfund0 and jl777hodl, and I created CryptoCoins, which has a link to the outside world in euro through CCEDK.

We're building the new economy, right here, right now.
I personally love it.
It's like being part of the Apollo program while having a chance to be Neil Armstrong. ;)
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Damelon

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16166 on: December 30, 2014, 01:11:17 pm »

On a similar note, I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6JUyK5dHoE#t=133

Which reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syA5Cg7vL6o

But without John Cleese and Michael Palin :(
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rlh

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16167 on: December 30, 2014, 01:11:47 pm »

I think we are all mostly of the same opinion but with varying degrees of optimism.  I know that I am a realist with a slight lean toward pessimism.

My only point was to voice that I am seeing more and more negativity centered around BTC, and since BTC is what the rest of the world sees as cryptocurrency, I hate being lumped in with it.  Every time I talk to an outsider I have to start with BTC and then go from there because that's what they have heard of and ask about.

To be clear, I think we can get through this,but it also can't be discredited that bad news for BTC that reaches the rest of the world, is also bad PR for the rest of crypto.  If we want to "change the world" we have to be both innovative and overcome the image of the BTC crap... and they are building one shitty mountain.
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barbierir

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16168 on: December 30, 2014, 01:31:40 pm »

Shouldn't the links to the client on nxt.org be changed? The linux client directs to 1.4.5 but the others for Windows and Mac point to the 2.0.0 autoinstaller with Nrs 1.3.1, I read in this forum that the latter will not update past 1.3.5 because it is no longer supported.

No, it will be updated later today. (I didn't update the 1.3.x releases because they are not hard forks) and the earlier 1.4 releases were experimental.

Ah thanks! I must have misunderstood other posts!
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Cassius

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16169 on: December 30, 2014, 01:41:32 pm »

There are plenty of very promising projects based on Nxt technology (That's the point of NxtInside, to show it off).
The Asset Exchange is, to me, revolutionary.
MGW is really promising, too.
And monetary system.
And Marketplace.

On top of these services, some tools are created: Melodius, Nxtty, Lyth, etc.
From the AE, some interesting things are created too. I love the possibility to create mutual funds based on it. James created Sharkfund0 and jl777hodl, and I created CryptoCoins, which has a link to the outside world in euro through CCEDK.

There is a lot going on. I have to keep reminding myself of this as the bear market persists. There are so many different projects that sooner or later, NXT has to take off. Absent some systemic problem like a catastrophic hack or security failure, I just cannot see how it could be any different.
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_mr_e

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16170 on: December 30, 2014, 02:34:36 pm »

My only point was to voice that I am seeing more and more negativity centered around BTC

Where exactly are you seeing this negativity, other then by people who don't understand what crypto is at all?

All I am seeing are constant new developments, companies like Microsoft taking the approach of "integrating bitcoin top down" and "having an expansive global vision for bitcoin", Reddit hiring a crypto currency engineer to integrate btc throughout it's fabric, bitcoin bowl was a solid success, regulations are coming much less limited then we thought/goverments around the world understanding it's importance, transactions per day are reaching all new highs, price has still yet to fall below the previous bubbles high, all sorts of people have left their jobs to work for bitcoin startups, top VC capitalists have been changing their views, real world uses like storj are around the corner, supernet will bring all kinds of powers to bitcoin as well as Nxt.... on and on and on with positivity.

The only negativity I see is that the price is still falling, which is likely because it far outpaced itself in speculative mania. We've now reached speculative mania but in the other direction.

It is Bitcoins job to move slow and cautiously given the amount of wealth it is currently holding in an experiment that most of the world does not yet understand. Sorry but Nxt has some serious problems too... It's heavy reliance on a single account and account initialization being a rather large one that limits it's abilities in a number of cases. Nxt's exposure of public keys also makes it less secure against a quantum attack. It's reliance on weak subjectivity makes it less likely to be able to restore as efficiently in the wake of a massive world disaster.

What's with all the death to bitcoin talk around here? We all have our place, I never joined nxt as a platform to kill bitcoin. I never joined supernet to be so exclusionary. I joined these platforms because of their potential to act as a platform that can extend ALL of crypto with new innovative features, allowing each to excel at what they are good at.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 02:45:51 pm by _mr_e »
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wesley

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16171 on: December 30, 2014, 03:00:11 pm »

Ok windows installer ready, mac to follow in a bit.

Download here:

https://bitbucket.org/nxt-wallet/nxt-wallet-win/downloads/nxt-wallet-win-setup-2.0.1-nrs-1.4.5.zip

Changelog:

https://bitbucket.org/nxt-wallet/nxt-wallet-win/downloads/nxt-wallet-win-setup-2.0.1-nrs-1.4.5.changelog.txt

sha256: faebf893e61beb507b72300462b21410dedc0c01e809b0faae7231c12bc7f78a

edit: updated to use latest jre7 in the setup, so different sha.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:23:53 pm by wesley »
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DoM P

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16172 on: December 30, 2014, 03:06:54 pm »

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wesley

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16173 on: December 30, 2014, 03:27:20 pm »

Is there a way to point to it from here: http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/  and there: http://www.nxtclient.org/#clients

I redirected just now http://nxtra.org to http://nxt.org -- they should update the links. Now that we have a good homepage it only makes sense that I redirect to there!

The faucet will also be made available to nxt.org
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DoM P

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16174 on: December 30, 2014, 03:45:08 pm »

Is there a way to point to it from here: http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/  and there: http://www.nxtclient.org/#clients

I redirected just now http://nxtra.org to http://nxt.org -- they should update the links. Now that we have a good homepage it only makes sense that I redirect to there!

The faucet will also be made available to nxt.org

OK, great

I dunno to whom I should say this, but there is a spelling mistake on the front page:
Quote
Here is a step by step guide for anyone who wishes to know more about Nxt and it’s ecosystem.
--> its
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Berzerk

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16175 on: December 30, 2014, 04:21:10 pm »

DoM P, me. I corrected it. I changed these sentences after corrections from a native speaker, thought he was right not me. :D :)
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DoM P

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16176 on: December 30, 2014, 04:34:17 pm »

DoM P, me. I corrected it. I changed these sentences after corrections from a native speaker, thought he was right not me. :D :)

Frequent mistake among native speakers.
As a French, the translation wouldn't work at all, so it jumps to my eyes... ;)
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Berzerk

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16177 on: December 30, 2014, 04:39:31 pm »

Okay thanks. :)

Btw. do you want to appear here? http://nxt.org/businesses/our-partners/ With one of your businesses. Everyone pro Nxt can be there.
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Ludom

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16178 on: December 30, 2014, 05:10:45 pm »

You can add nxter.org
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m30188

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #16179 on: December 30, 2014, 05:30:52 pm »

I dunno to whom I should say this, but there is a spelling mistake on the front page:
Quote
Here is a step by step guide for anyone who wishes to know more about Nxt and it’s ecosystem.
--> its
For what it's worth, "step-by-step" should be hyphenated.
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