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Author Topic: Price speculation  (Read 4507867 times)

Pilot

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24620 on: September 11, 2015, 08:50:05 pm »

32MB sound reasonably large to you today. It will become an emergency 5 years from now, starting the whole debate again.

Maybe this hard limit exists to incentivize everyone to some off-chain protocol like side-chains or lightning network?

Remember when 100 MEGAbyte hard drives seemed so huge? Now your refrigerator has more RAM than that, never mind secondary storage.
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bcdev

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24621 on: September 11, 2015, 09:10:43 pm »

Even 100MB blocks wouldn't break the network if they were transmitted as lists of txid's to minimize propagation time. Or as proposed by Gavin Invertible Bloom Lookup Tables.
100MB per 10 minutes == 2Mbit/s. That's like 1/50 of a capacity of a typical internet connection in Romania. I don't get what the fuss is about.

Therefore I'd vote for XT because of it's deterministic algorithm and no upper limit.

Fortunately I'm not a miner, thus I don't care which implementation wins. :)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 09:14:12 pm by bcdev »
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Pilot

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24622 on: September 11, 2015, 09:18:48 pm »

Even 100MB blocks wouldn't break the network if they were transmitted as lists of txid's to minimize propagation time. Or as proposed by Gavin Invertible Bloom Lookup Tables.
100MB per 10 minutes == 2Mbit/s. That's like 1/50 of a capacity of a typical internet connection in Romania. I don't get what the fuss is about.

Therefore I'd vote for XT because of it's deterministic algorithm and no upper limit.

Fortunately I'm not a miner, thus I don't care which implementation wins. :)

My point was, which 32MB might sound big today, in 3-5 years when that block size actually hits with the BIP 100 (or what ever it was to increase every two years) bandwidth will be much better as will CPUs, etc.
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jl777

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24623 on: September 11, 2015, 09:19:02 pm »

Even 100MB blocks wouldn't break the network if they were transmitted as lists of txid's to minimize propagation time. Or as proposed by Gavin Invertible Bloom Lookup Tables.
100MB per 10 minutes == 2Mbit/s. That's like 1/50 of a capacity of a typical internet connection in Romania. I don't get what the fuss is about.

Therefore I'd vote for XT because of it's deterministic algorithm and no upper limit.

Fortunately I'm not a miner, thus I don't care which implementation wins. :)
the problem is the exponential growth, which is faster than bandwidth increases
therefore, just a matter of time before it becomes impossible to bootstrap new nodes
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jl777

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24624 on: September 11, 2015, 09:38:20 pm »

pushed a version that has a new exchange called "shuffle"


I did it as an agent for the coinshuffling, but it uses instantdex placebid (or placeask which is equivalent in this case)

the idea is that people would add their node to the orderbook for a coin
then when there is enough nodes, the shuffle agent is invoked with a "start" command and the node that does this initiates the coinshuffle process as described in the whitepaper

I estimate it would take about 10 seconds for 8 to 16 nodes

and then the shuffled tx is broadcast to the network
locally, there will be a wallet account called "shuffled", which will have unspents that have been shuffled
once the basics work, then I can add multiround shuffling, so you can get more and more anonymized unspents

At first it is for bitcoin (and forks), but if there is demand for it, I can think about doing it for NXT things too. the coin shuffle coded itself today, so it is not a lot of extra code, but shuffling NXT outside the core would be trickier as it doesnt have multi-input or multi-output. I would have to use some sort of complex phased transactions

James

Since centralized mixers are chargin 1% to 3% and they can just take the funds, I think a fee of 0.1% is a good level for the fees, so that is what I have it set to and these revenues will go to NXTprivacy. If anybody is interested in marketing this, plz PM me
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 09:40:41 pm by jl777 »
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valarmg

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24625 on: September 11, 2015, 09:47:29 pm »

Wow did anybody else see a queue of 520 unconfirmed transactions just now?

When SuperNET/NxtVenture is doing an asset dividend, it takes about 3000 transactions.
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bcdev

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24626 on: September 11, 2015, 10:02:08 pm »

the problem is the exponential growth, which is faster than bandwidth increases
therefore, just a matter of time before it becomes impossible to bootstrap new nodes
Right now my 5$ VPS has 800Mbit internet connection [tested with iperf].
Bigger problem is with disk space. Today's disks are too small to handle 100MB per 10min blocks [about 5TB per year - 2000tx/s]. Hopefully prices will drop before this becomes a problem.
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_mr_e

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24627 on: September 11, 2015, 10:05:58 pm »

the problem is the exponential growth, which is faster than bandwidth increases
therefore, just a matter of time before it becomes impossible to bootstrap new nodes
Right now my 5$ VPS has 800Mbit internet connection [tested with iperf].
Bigger problem is with disk space. Today's disks are too small to handle 100MB per 10min blocks [about 5TB per year - 2000tx/s]. Hopefully prices will drop before this becomes a problem.
Pruning allows you to store only unspent outputs which is < 100mb.
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MrCluster87

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24629 on: September 12, 2015, 09:17:08 am »

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115264/dash-the-first-decentralized-autonomous-organization

1) we do have a decentralized voting mechanism  8)

2) do we have a decentralized fund allocation mechanism?  :-\

MrCluster87

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24630 on: September 12, 2015, 11:24:02 am »

My new video on NRS 1.6.0e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnjMNpEOE60

on the description you can find a link to nxtwiki to what is a hallmark.

Thanks Nxt Devs!!!

bcdev

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24631 on: September 12, 2015, 12:02:42 pm »

@MrCluster87:
I have one very important question... Why do you have an antivirus on Linux??? :o

As for the film... When you watch a movie called "Nxt N.R.S. v1.6.0e" you actually expect to see "Nxt N.R.S. v1.6.0e". You forgot to enter the browser and show NRS. ;)
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Brangdon

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24632 on: September 12, 2015, 12:12:56 pm »

32MB sound reasonably large to you today. It will become an emergency 5 years from now, starting the whole debate again.
I'm fine with that.

As far as I can tell, the average block size seems to double every 2 years, so in 10 years we'll be back where we are now, with 50% spare capacity and a year to decide what to do. That seems fine to me. We'll have 10 years more experience with how voting works and how the miners actually behave. Bitcoin today is only 6 years old. Even if the block size grows at twice that rate, and it is 5 years, 5 years is a significant length of time for Bitcoin history. Having the whole debate again in 5 years seems wiser to me than trying to decide once and for all now.

It's a conservative choice because a lot could happen, including some bad things. For example, those miners who think they benefit from propagation delays might be filling their blocks with spam. So might attackers. Meanwhile side chains may be so prolific that the block size hardly matters. Payment processors may be performing most transactions off-chain. We might find the large block size is adding costs without adding benefits.

BIP 100 potentially allows the block size to double every 3 months. It may only take 18 months to reach 32MB. If that happens, I suspect it will mean something has gone wrong and it will be good this rapid exponential growth has a cap.

Remember when 100 MEGAbyte hard drives seemed so huge? Now your refrigerator has more RAM than that, never mind secondary storage.
BIP 100 isn't intended to be a lasting solution. It buys enough time to hopefully see what the lasting solution should look like.
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bcdev

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24633 on: September 12, 2015, 12:47:22 pm »

Personally I'd be ok with BIP100. Voting is a nice idea. The only thing I can't swallow is this arbitrary 32MB limit. [only 200tx/s]
I'd let them vote block sizes into whatever number they desire, as long as they reach consensus.

[I just think that 10kTX/s will be possible without any further hard-forks in 10 years. 32MB block limit would force one hard-fork.]
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 12:49:24 pm by bcdev »
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coretechs

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24634 on: September 12, 2015, 01:40:53 pm »

Scaling Bitcoin live stream:  https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/live

Very interesting insights into P2P code so far.
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PICISI.com

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24635 on: September 12, 2015, 09:54:17 pm »

It was suggested that I present my project here. Recently we launched a MS currency we call PI, which is short for PICISI, the currency code is NUMUS (https://nxtportal.org/currencies/1350076970661039300)

We launched the currency in conjunction with a crowdfunding effort to build our crowdfunding website at PICISI.com -- the site and the currency have the same name. 

We received a number of estimates for our target site ranging from $7K - $10K, if we raise that we will have a 4 man tech team do the job over 30 days; if we fail to reach that goal we but are able to raise a minimum of $2.5K we will secure a customized crowdfunding theme site with limited bells and whistles, which should be installed 15 days after campaign close; anything less than that we are stuck with a rental crowdfunding site that would be installed a few days after the end of the campaign -- as such in any case a site will be produced. 

We valued Pi at $1 to be a very attractive investment entry point.  PICISI.com has placed 10K Pi on the market for the specific purpose of site construction.  Approx 100K Pi are in the hands of, or owed to, individuals who have done satisfactory PICISI assignments.  Currently there are 111 Pi in the hands of Pi buyer/investors, that were purchased at the rate of $1ea.  This fundraiser will mark the last time PICISI.com offers Pi at this low rate $1. 

If we raise less than the target site goal amount we will install the site consistent with the amount raised.  On that site we will conduct a crowdfunding campaign to raise funds for our target site, Pi will not be offered for sale by PICISI.com nor will it be a perk for any of the donation points.

If we get our target site we estimate Pi to be valued at no less than $5, if we get our mid-range site we expect Pi to be valued at no less than $3, and if we go with the low-end site we expect Pi's value to be no less than $2.  These values are based primarily on the amount of Pi on the market, and anticipated community involvement at the respective levels.

Pi is expected to experience many significant rate increases at major events, but will likely enjoy price spikes each time there is a 'rebuy' of Pi event.  We use the term rebuy instead of repurchase because we want to highlight the fact that we are buying with added value -- think of it as recycling something into a better product.

Here is how the rebuy plan works.  All PICISI.com fiat income will be used to buy Pi on the open market (or exclusively at the site of the official exchange sponsor).  That means if we earn $10 in fiat fees we will buy $10 worth of Pi on the open market at prevailing rates.  Unlike most issuers of currency (fiat and crypto) we actually want to buy our currency over and over again.  Our demand and our constant issuance of the currency will be a primary factor in the strength, stability, and values of the currency.

Pi goes out from PICISI.com in two ways: to those who earn it by satisfactorily completing PICISI assignments; and to those who buy it in the extremely rare occasions when we sell it, PICISI will only sell Pi when we have a specifically stated need. 

We have many PICISI assignments that registered Promotion Contractors are invited to do to earn Pi, most of the assignments are 'Staple' assignments that are always open to do like article writing and video production.  Some of the assignments are 'Reserve' assignments that are limited to specific people via a bid or first come first serve.  90% of the ongoing assignments relate to graphics, writing, or video production, all of the assignments are used to promote the site, our sponsors, and/or campaigns featured at the site. 

You are invited to support our efforts in any way you can, we specifically want: administrators, sponsors, promotion contractors, campaign contractors, referral agents, campaign organizers, donor/contributors, volunteers, and Pi investors.  Please buy Pi now.

Thanks in advance

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Everyone is invited to become a Promotion Contractor to earn Pi for yourself, and to help us build the PICISI community.  We appreciate your support.

neofelis

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24636 on: September 14, 2015, 01:54:07 am »

What're the other cyrptocurrencies that use POS? What are the downfalls of POW?  I've been debating some friends and need more ammo.

Thanks.
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anon136

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24637 on: September 14, 2015, 04:48:55 am »

For lingering fans of mine who might be wondering what I'm up to. I'm starting a new project. Bitcoin for gold in the mail. Orderbook and escrow service. Very strong rep.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 09:06:22 am by farl4bit »
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Fern

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24638 on: September 14, 2015, 07:51:16 am »

Link not working Anon
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yassin54

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Re: Price speculation
« Reply #24639 on: September 14, 2015, 07:54:18 am »

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