elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
NXT is not trustless and premined by very few people. How do you answer that?  
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Latest Stable Nxt Client: Nxt 1.12.2

Pages: [1] 2 3  All

Author Topic: NXT is not trustless and premined by very few people. How do you answer that?  (Read 10186 times)

box1413

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +101/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
    • View Profile

When someone states:

Quote
nxt is not trustless and premined by very few people

How do you answer that? It's on this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bcnff/yay_o_got_filmed_for_an_1_hour_cnn_episode_about/

I just want to be able to defend NXT if people ask such questions. Yes they have a valid point since they don't understand it fully.
Logged

TheCoinWizard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +97/-55
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
  • Learn by questioning everything!
    • View Profile

don't know what you mean with not trust-less, but here is the answer to the other question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7aAt3kFMI&list=UU1WYajSaECI0VrnP97yNOYg

at 11:20 or so
Logged
Welcome to the After Nxt Calendar era...
Which started in the year 222 of the French Republic, Frost month, on the fifth day of the first week, better known as the 2456621th Julian day,
even better known as 24 November 2013 at 12:00:00 UTC.

xyzzyx

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +40/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 339
  • NXT-L8EV-EMP8-7VE8-88WWL
    • View Profile

When someone states:

Quote
nxt is not trustless and premined by very few people

How do you answer that? It's on this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bcnff/yay_o_got_filmed_for_an_1_hour_cnn_episode_about/

I just want to be able to defend NXT if people ask such questions. Yes they have a valid point since they don't understand it fully.

His statement that Nxt is not trustless makes no sense to me.  You could try asking him to clarify specifically in what way Nxt is not trustless and then go from there.

The statement that Nxt was premined shows a miner's mentality.  Nxt was never mined.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with him.  You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:43:16 am by xyzzyx »
Logged
BM-NAvVBkSuKcRcRzFMynuXyHTrR8TfRtQk
"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov

TheCoinWizard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +97/-55
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
  • Learn by questioning everything!
    • View Profile

When someone states:

Quote
nxt is not trustless and premined by very few people

How do you answer that? It's on this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bcnff/yay_o_got_filmed_for_an_1_hour_cnn_episode_about/

I just want to be able to defend NXT if people ask such questions. Yes they have a valid point since they don't understand it fully.

His statement that Nxt is not trustless makes no sense to me.  You could try asking him to clarify specifically in what way Nxt is not trustless and then go from there.

The statement that Nxt was premined shows a miner's mentality.  Nxt was never mined.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with him.  You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.
::)  ;D

then why ask for help in replying on it in the forum    ???
Logged
Welcome to the After Nxt Calendar era...
Which started in the year 222 of the French Republic, Frost month, on the fifth day of the first week, better known as the 2456621th Julian day,
even better known as 24 November 2013 at 12:00:00 UTC.

box1413

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +101/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
    • View Profile

yea but you still have to come up with a good argument to defend NXT. Ignoring them works fine online, but if your in a crowd and someone asks that and you don't answer. people will think otherwise. i'm just speaking from a perspective if someone asked me that on TV or something. it would look really bad if I wasn't able to answer it.
Logged

xyzzyx

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +40/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 339
  • NXT-L8EV-EMP8-7VE8-88WWL
    • View Profile

yea but you still have to come up with a good argument to defend NXT. Ignoring them works fine online, but if your in a crowd and someone asks that and you don't answer. people will think otherwise. i'm just speaking from a perspective if someone asked me that on TV or something. it would look really bad if I wasn't able to answer it.

The statements he made are geared to put you on the defensive.  You don't want to be there.  If you must counter, put him on the defensive instead.

Ask him to clarify his points.  First counter by telling him the opposite of what he said.  Tell him, "Nxt is a cryptocurrency and like all cryptocurrencies it is built to be trustless."  Then ask him, "in what way do you believe Nxt may not be trustless?"  Note the shift from his initial "X is Y" statement to a  "why do you believe X may be Y?"  The shift in language frames the debate as one of perhaps incorrect presuppositions on his part.

edit: forgot a "not"
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 04:32:59 am by xyzzyx »
Logged
BM-NAvVBkSuKcRcRzFMynuXyHTrR8TfRtQk
"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov

2Kool4Skewl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +396/-246
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1897
  • Banned!
  • Because I'm a Genius
    • View Profile

Nothing can ever be truly "trustless".  The idea behind cryptocurrencies is to decentralize trust.  Bitcoin has failed because trust is now centralized around GHash.io.  NXT succeeds where Bitcoin failed by having a mechanism of proof that doesn't lead to centralization.  In fact, the more people that use NXT the more decentralized it becomes and the less trust is required.

The "premine" question has been answered before.  If you are going to create a 100% PoS currency, the initial distribution has to happen either via an IPO or an initial PoW mining period.  Both are really IPOs.  You purchase your stake in the beginning with either currency or hashpower.  You could also do a giveaway, but this method leads to rampant sockpuppet accounts.
Logged
We are the descendants of Bitcoin.  We are the continuation of the cause it started, but that perished with its centralization.
An economic system is a manifestation of an ideology.  What was lost, we shall reclaim.
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

Come-from-Beyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +794/-671
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4013
    • View Profile

yea but you still have to come up with a good argument to defend NXT.

What if u can't defend Nxt against "premined by very few people"? :) From my point of view it was indeed "premined" by very few people. Any number below 1 million participants looks "very few" too me.
Logged

Neomadra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +37/-6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 441
    • View Profile

When someone states:

Quote
nxt is not trustless and premined by very few people

How do you answer that? It's on this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bcnff/yay_o_got_filmed_for_an_1_hour_cnn_episode_about/

I just want to be able to defend NXT if people ask such questions. Yes they have a valid point since they don't understand it fully.

I tried to give a good answer but I'm not a technician so you can give feedback whether my posts are good or not.
I find it very important to defend Nxt in the media, on facebook, reddit etc. Bitcointalk is a different topic, the only way to survive a discussion in btt is having a abyss of ignorance because there are just trolls, haters and bitcointalk mods don't care if altcoin users spread FUD, insulting each other or scamming people. Worst moderated forum I ever used but unfortunately it's still the Mecca of altcoins.
Logged

Neomadra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +37/-6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 441
    • View Profile

yea but you still have to come up with a good argument to defend NXT.

What if u can't defend Nxt against "premined by very few people"? :) From my point of view it was indeed "premined" by very few people. Any number below 1 million participants looks "very few" too me.

Hi CfB.
Could you answer to that?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bcnff/yay_o_got_filmed_for_an_1_hour_cnn_episode_about/cj49wag

I thought this is answered with the nothing at stake concern but he is obviously not impressed...
Logged

Come-from-Beyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +794/-671
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4013
    • View Profile

Hi CfB.
Could you answer to that?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bcnff/yay_o_got_filmed_for_an_1_hour_cnn_episode_about/cj49wag

I thought this is answered with the nothing at stake concern but he is obviously not impressed...

Don't see a point to argue with a PoW zealot, so sorry, I'm not going to answer that, it was answered already.
Logged

salsacz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +239/-67
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR
    • View Profile

if you check his history, this is a 7th(?) time he brings this topic... nxt... vericoin...
Logged
Holidays are (almost) over, check more news at: Nxt Academy

Neomadra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +37/-6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 441
    • View Profile

if you check his history, this is a 7th(?) time he brings this topic... nxt... vericoin...

Don't see a point to argue with a PoW zealot, so sorry, I'm not going to answer that, it was answered already.

Ok, there's no point to response then. I thought it would be looking nice if some Bitcoiners accept Nxt as a equal decentralized crypto but this probably won't happen. :D
Logged

Fatih87SK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +127/-36
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2206
    • View Profile

if you check his history, this is a 7th(?) time he brings this topic... nxt... vericoin...

Don't see a point to argue with a PoW zealot, so sorry, I'm not going to answer that, it was answered already.

Ok, there's no point to response then. I thought it would be looking nice if some Bitcoiners accept Nxt as a equal decentralized crypto but this probably won't happen. :D

At this rate nobody will accept NXT because we are too arrogant.

We should not give up with answering those fudsters.
Like Marc de Mesel says in his latest video; Not much people in the Bitcoin community knows about NXT.

And when Marc was telling his story about NXT to the Bitcoin investors/miners they actually liked NXT.
So we should keep getting the word out about NXT and we should always answer FUDsters and educate people why NXT is better.
Logged

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile

if you check his history, this is a 7th(?) time he brings this topic... nxt... vericoin...

Don't see a point to argue with a PoW zealot, so sorry, I'm not going to answer that, it was answered already.

Ok, there's no point to response then. I thought it would be looking nice if some Bitcoiners accept Nxt as a equal decentralized crypto but this probably won't happen. :D
@CfB
It seems I am core dev for BTCD now and I was wondering if you would help put in NXT forging algo into BTCD?
The BTCD community will then blast out PR about its big improvement in PoS using NXT algo

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

valarmg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +178/-57
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1766
    • View Profile


Ok, there's no point to response then. I thought it would be looking nice if some Bitcoiners accept Nxt as a equal decentralized crypto but this probably won't happen. :D

At this rate nobody will accept NXT because we are too arrogant.

We should not give up with answering those fudsters.
Like Marc de Mesel says in his latest video; Not much people in the Bitcoin community knows about NXT.

And when Marc was telling his story about NXT to the Bitcoin investors/miners they actually liked NXT.
So we should keep getting the word out about NXT and we should always answer FUDsters and educate people why NXT is better.
[/quote]

I agree with this. Keep answering the FUD with logic. Even if the original poster rarely changes his mind, you'll get others who are following the argument to see the truth.
Logged
NXT-CSED-4PK5-AR4V-6UB5V

jonny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile

Keep answering the FUD with logic. Even if the original poster rarely changes his mind, you'll get others who are following the argument to see the truth.
I agree, the goal with replies should not be to change the mind of the original poster. All followers will easily see who provides false arguments when they are countered with facts.
Logged

Damelon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +792/-54
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2314
    • View Profile
    • Nxt Inside

He uses the "history attack" vector.
Already been discussed in the whitepaper.
I quoted it for him:

Quote
4.1.2 History Attack
In a “history attack”, someone acquires a large number of tokens, sells them,
and then attempts to create a successful fork from just before the time when
their tokens were sold or traded. If the attack fails, the attempt costs nothing
because the tokens have already been sold or traded; if the attack succeeds, the
attacker gets their tokens back. Extreme forms of this attack involve obtaining
the private keys from old accounts and using them to build a successful chain
right from the genesis block.

In Nxt, the basic history attack generally fails because all stake must be stationary
for 1440 blocks before it can be used for forging; moreover, the effective
balance of the account that generates each block is verified as part of block
validation. The extreme form of this attack generally fails because the Nxt
blockchain cannot be re-organized more than 720 blocks behind the current
block height. This limits the time frame in which a bad actor could mount this
form of attack.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cbuwrorf672c0yy/NxtWhitepaper_v122_rev4.pdf
Logged
Member of the Nxt Foundation | Donations: NXT-D6K7-MLY6-98FM-FLL5T
Join Nxt Slack! https://nxtchat.herokuapp.com/
Founder of Blockchain Workspace | Personal Site & Blog

Neomadra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +37/-6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 441
    • View Profile

Quote

Ok, there's no point to response then. I thought it would be looking nice if some Bitcoiners accept Nxt as a equal decentralized crypto but this probably won't happen. :D

At this rate nobody will accept NXT because we are too arrogant.

We should not give up with answering those fudsters.
Like Marc de Mesel says in his latest video; Not much people in the Bitcoin community knows about NXT.

And when Marc was telling his story about NXT to the Bitcoin investors/miners they actually liked NXT.
So we should keep getting the word out about NXT and we should always answer FUDsters and educate people why NXT is better.

I agree with this. Keep answering the FUD with logic. Even if the original poster rarely changes his mind, you'll get others who are following the argument to see the truth.

yeah you are right. Sometimes it just seems pointless but it's not really about to convince them rather for newcomers/outsiders who will see that the critics can be stand.
Logged

Come-from-Beyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +794/-671
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4013
    • View Profile

@CfB
It seems I am core dev for BTCD now and I was wondering if you would help put in NXT forging algo into BTCD?
The BTCD community will then blast out PR about its big improvement in PoS using NXT algo

James

Let's do it, why not.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All
 

elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
assembly
assembly