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@Jelurida : JPL - the right to exclude the exchanges from the snapshot...
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Author Topic: @Jelurida : JPL - the right to exclude the exchanges from the snapshot...  (Read 2237 times)

Right.Here

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Hi  :D

based on what happened with the exchanges and to avoid that these entities steal their users like the case of some, I request an addition to the JPL giving the right to the new coins creators using the NXT Blockchain Kit, to exclude the known exchanges accounts from the snapshot ...

however, if jelurida adds a system in the snapshot tool to automatically exclude these accounts and proportionally redistribute their stack to other accounts it will be perfect and an official thing , so... the coinmaster will have the choice to do it or not with a checkbox for example...

(for the local economy & marketing, this exclusion will be a good thing...)

Thank you  :D
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neofelis

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I think eventually the free market will give us exchanges that don't try and sell listings for exorbitant fees.  There is so much money in crypto now that commissions alone would be the incentive to create new exchanges.  Stocks.exchange is one for example. 
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Right.Here

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I think eventually the free market will give us exchanges that don't try and sell listings for exorbitant fees.  There is so much money in crypto now that commissions alone would be the incentive to create new exchanges.  Stocks.exchange is one for example.
I did not understand this thing 100k euros for 1 exchange only is pure scam and if I had my say I will refuse this because I can create 5 companies that work for my promotion and marketing with the same amount...
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Right.Here

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I extend the idea of excluding the exchangers accounts from the snapshot by adding to my request the mandatory exclusion of all accounts that have been involved in criminal activity like the scamers of the ICO...

jelurida can add an exchanges BlacklistedAccounts.json file to the snapshot tool for example...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 05:44:29 pm by Right.Here »
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apenzl

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So you want to centralize? That's not why I'm here...

I extend the idea of excluding the exchangers accounts from the snapshot by adding to my request the mandatory exclusion of all accounts that have been involved in criminal activity like the scamers of the ICO...

Which ICO scammers?

jelurida can add a BlacklistedAccounts.json file to the snapshot tool for example...
Who will decide which people or projects are scams? Social media, you or Jelurida? In which jurisdiction should their actions be considered criminal activity?

Don't misunderstand me, I see the problem, but maybe By-Property phasing and Asset Control can solve this in a better and more decentralized way.

based on what happened with the exchanges and to avoid that these entities steal their users like the case of some, I request an addition to the JPL giving the right to the new coins creators using the NXT Blockchain Kit, to exclude the known exchanges accounts from the snapshot ...

It does feel stupid to throw tokens into a black hole. Or rather... IMHO the problem is, that it's NOT a black hole. In 10 years when everyone has forgotten about centralized exchanges, their former owners can go pick up their former customers' tokens. Oh boy. It's just not fair.

1 solution could be to distribute those lost "exchange tokens" as an extra reward to the ppl that hold NXT or IGNIS in private accounts. Another one would be to just burn them. But I see your point and I agree with you. Maybe exchanges that do NOT agree to support Nxt/Ignis airdrops within a reasonable timeframe shouldn't get those tokens.

Right.Here

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Hi  :D
Quote
So you want to centralize? That's not why I'm here...
what centralization in this case ? i think this will be a good thing because will have a kind of anti-centralization effect by forcing() the users to keep them stack in them own wallets for the airdrops instead of the exchanges...

Quote
Which ICO scammers?
this guys  and similar confirmed cases 8)
https://hackernoon.com/dealing-with-scammers-3201917e2ac3

Quote
Who will decide which people or projects are scams? Social media, you or Jelurida? In which jurisdiction should their actions be considered criminal activity?
i agree with you, i don't know but this may be a collaborative work between the community and jelurida...

Quote
1 solution could be to distribute those lost "exchange tokens" as an extra reward to the ppl that hold NXT or IGNIS in private accounts.
...

however, if jelurida adds a system in the snapshot tool to automatically exclude these accounts and proportionally redistribute their stack to other accounts it will be perfect and an official thing , so... the coinmaster will have the choice to do it or not with a checkbox for example...

my suggestion is to do this before the snapshot tool produce the json file for the genesis block... in this way you can upload and start with a clean thing in the clone... and if we exclude the exchangers this will avoid a lot of problems not only to the coinmaster but also to those exchanges...

thank you for sharing your opinion  :D

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SwissAlps

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You can do even better, with only a little fork (and if everybody agrees, except the bad guy, of course),
and the following lines (pseudocode)  ;D ;D ;D

Code: [Select]
if senderAccount == accountOfTheBadGuy
or recipientAccount == accountOfTheBadGuy
    transactionIsInvalid

If you do this, the entire account of the bad guy is DEFINITIVELY locked and all his assets also (with just 3 lines !!!)

This is what you get with centralization....  but as some said before me, we are not here if we want to centralize, or are we   ::)
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Right.Here

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You can do even better, with only a little fork (and if everybody agrees, except the bad guy, of course),
and the following lines (pseudocode)  ;D ;D ;D

Code: [Select]
if senderAccount == accountOfTheBadGuy
or recipientAccount == accountOfTheBadGuy
    transactionIsInvalid

If you do this, the entire account of the bad guy is DEFINITIVELY locked and all his assets also (with just 3 lines !!!)

This is what you get with centralization....  but as some said before me, we are not here if we want to centralize, or are we   ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D if only this was so simple to do  ;D ;D ;D ;D

in 3 operations maybe but not in 3 lines... for eg;
1- doing a first snapshot to calculate the total including the excluded accounts,
2- doing a second snapshot to the blacklisted accounts to get them total
3- recalculate the distribution stack and distribute it giving the blacklisted accounts total proportionally to the other accounts...

I do not understand what you mean by centralization  ???

for me, the centralization is the fact that a very large part of the stack is in the hands of exchanges; these entities are inactive in / for the ecosystem because they don't make transactions in our network and don't pay fees ... it's dead stack that does not serve the local economy

so, to avoid to export this scheme to new clones, it is better to exclude them from the snapshot ... if the people want to participate in the airdrops, they have just to withdraw their funds from the exchanges to them personal wallets

Another positive aspect of this exclusion is that it is a means of pressure on these exchanges that require fees to list the new coins using the NXT Blockchain Creation Kit or Ardor child chains... because being excluded = losing consumers who will withdraw their funds towards exchanges that promotes and helps our new babies...

and in respect of the art of war (marketing), jelurida can for example send a small courtesy e-mail, informing these exchanges of the measures taken and how to avoid being excluded  (support the airdrops or go to hell ;D ;D ;D ;D)

for bad boys, it is secondary but desirable because it is a way to say that we don't accept this kind of activities and we do our best to never let them harm the ecosystems of new projects by confiscating their stack and distributing it to the other honest people

Thank you and have fun  :D
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apenzl

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Quote
I do not understand what you mean by centralization  ???

It's all about your proposal that a centralized unit decides who are scammers and who are not.

It doesn't matter though because it won't work.

Scammers will create a new account.

We had plenty of scammers on the Nxt AE back in the day. Some were bad guys and others were not, just bad businessmen.
The community can be hyped to believe that someone who got sick and disappears for a month, for example, ran with the money.

My point is, it's hard to draw the line. And a crazy workload.
Also, by announcing that you ban scammers you may lead people to believe that the blockchain is free from scammers. It will never be.

Quote
thank you for sharing your opinion  :D

Thank you for opening the topic :)

Right.Here

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Quote
I do not understand what you mean by centralization  ???

It's all about your proposal that a centralized unit decides who are scammers and who are not.

It doesn't matter though because it won't work.

Scammers will create a new account.

We had plenty of scammers on the Nxt AE back in the day. Some were bad guys and others were not, just bad businessmen.
The community can be hyped to believe that someone who got sick and disappears for a month, for example, ran with the money.

My point is, it's hard to draw the line. And a crazy workload.
Also, by announcing that you ban scammers you may lead people to believe that the blockchain is free from scammers. It will never be.

Quote
thank you for sharing your opinion  :D

Thank you for opening the topic :)

thank you for this explanation, I agree with you, if this can harm honest and innocent people, I withdraw my extension and I keep the basic idea of excluding the exchanges because they deserve it, we must not forget their role in the launch of Ardor / IGNIS and all the frustration they generated in a delicate moment in the life of the platform ...
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Right.Here

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Plop  :D

Rikiki!!!!! where is my answer  :-\
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

i need to know but it's not urgent, i cook something in the background and the airdrop will be the last thing to do and i will do it with a script that uses the same files produced by the snapshot tool... (forgers happy hour  ;) )

Thank you and good continuation  :D
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