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New Poll: Do you agree to issue new coins via majority vote to pay people? singapore
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Author Topic: New Poll: Do you agree to issue new coins via majority vote to pay people?  (Read 7763 times)

Marc De Mesel

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Poll has been launched:
https://www.mynxt.info/poll/12977696074128150035


Description:

Do you agree to start issuing new coins, on top of the 1 billion NXT, to pay people on a case by case basis? Such important polls would run for 45'000 blocks (31 days) and would be decided by majority vote, based on NXT coin balance. No minimum participation rate is set so that low payments can be requested, studied, and approved by only a few voters. As to avoid too many spam requests the fee to launch a 'Request Payment' poll will be 1% of the new coins requested. As to avoid hijacking of the vote at the last minute the poll is declared invalid if the vote result changes during the last 10'000 blocks (7 days).



Note, I launched 2 polls by accident, feel free to vote on both or just 1, votes will be aggregated at the end. I wanted to let the poll run for 40 days, double the time the original ICO for NXT ran (20 days), but I noticed the maximum is 1.5 weeks :/ so runs until 2016/04/19



Please see my latest video's where I make a case for this:
NXT: Facing Taboos & Decentralized Governance
NXT: Issuing Coins vs Donations
Core Dev Lior and Investor Marc De Mesel Negotiate About NXT


Also my latest posts:
We could offer our blockchain with NO fees, like bitcoin did for a long time: free transactions, free assets, etc.
Coinholders become the manager of NXT
Why I think the Linux/Red Hat model is not good for NXT
If we agree we need to start paying people decently, that's the only way to find money, and put coinholders more in control of NXT
Why donations don't work
Bitcoin and NXT is failing due to donation business model and competition that pay people by inflating the supply is winning
Problem of ICO is that it gives the money to Jean-Luc and Bas but they have the wrong priorities by focusing on trying to sell licenses, that don't benefit coinholders.
How Ethereum is issuing new coins to pay people and Dash set up a Decentralized Autonomous Organisation to decide via voting who gets payed, how much.
Rebuted why Bas his other solutions to generate income to pay devs and marketing are not sufficient to save Nxt.
Made a proposal to Bas on how we can continue to work together while also giving him better pay as well as more power to the coinholders.



Please post arguments against this below, I will link them here upon request.
Bas explains there are many other possible income sources than inflating the supply


« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 01:51:45 pm by Marc De Mesel »
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Damelon

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 02:47:34 pm »

Go for it.

Any poll is valid.
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NxtSwe

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 04:41:29 pm »

10% participation?
Marc, come on now, wake up!
Do you know many democracies where one option can win with total of 5.1% of the votes and still be able to claim that the poll is valid?

Anything less than 50-70% participation is just silly.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 04:52:24 pm »

10% participation?
Marc, come on now, wake up!
Do you know many democracies where one option can win with total of 5.1% of the votes and still be able to claim that the poll is valid?

Anything less than 50-70% participation is just silly.

50% for every new issuance of coins?

It's not unreasonable, this is what companies do (51% I think).

But with companies, all voters (the board) are present or give authority to others to vote.


With Nxt the maximum of voters we have had is 23% I think so proposing 50% would mean the minimum would likely never be achieved, so why have the instrument in the first place?


I take it you are against the idea?  ;)

NxtSwe

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 04:59:42 pm »

I take it you are against the idea?  ;)
What gave me away?

Another option is that nil vote (no vote) means you vote 'no'.
After all, that should be the default option, NXT was never intended to be inflated into oblivion like fiat "money" is.
It should be hard to get money from this kind of system.

Anyway, I'm still out if any of this becomes a reality, but that's another matter.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 05:01:37 pm »

I take it you are against the idea?  ;)
What gave me away?

Another option is that nil vote (no vote) means you vote 'no'.
After all, that should be the default option, NXT was never intended to be inflated into oblivion like fiat "money" is.
It should be hard to get money from this kind of system.

Anyway, I'm still out if any of this becomes a reality, but that's another matter.

Why another matter? I like your contributions.

What other coins are you invested in or do you consider investing in?

NxtSwe

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 05:12:11 pm »

I take it you are against the idea?  ;)
What gave me away?

Another option is that nil vote (no vote) means you vote 'no'.
After all, that should be the default option, NXT was never intended to be inflated into oblivion like fiat "money" is.
It should be hard to get money from this kind of system.

Anyway, I'm still out if any of this becomes a reality, but that's another matter.

Why another matter? I like your contributions.

What other coins are you invested in or do you consider investing in?
Thank you, I have not looked on other coins, so I have no idea.
I would probably look at fundamentals (like NXT used to have) and then check if the Community really believes in those fundamentals (like this Community used to do) before joining.
Or, maybe I'll just go back to spending time with my family & kids, that's probably the healthy decision.
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wolffang

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 05:17:44 pm »


Quote
Thank you, I have not looked on other coins, so I have no idea.
I would probably look at fundamentals (like NXT used to have) and then check if the Community really believes in those fundamentals (like this Community used to do) before joining.
Or, maybe I'll just go back to spending time with my family & kids, that's probably the healthy decision.

Please stay or your wife probably will let you do more house cleaning jobs. Now you can say you are already busy ;)
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 05:32:18 pm »


Thank you, I have not looked on other coins, so I have no idea.
I would probably look at fundamentals (like NXT used to have) and then check if the Community really believes in those fundamentals (like this Community used to do) before joining.
Or, maybe I'll just go back to spending time with my family & kids, that's probably the healthy decision.

Sorry to hear you are dissapointed  :-\

I would also have liked it to be possible  :'(

« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 05:45:36 pm by Marc De Mesel »
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Nxter

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 05:33:36 pm »


About to launch this poll tonight, anything you would recommend changing?



Yes. I think that in order to get these new coins issued, a wide majority should be required in the poll, not only a 51%. 

I would say require a wide majority of minimum 70% yes - 30% no   out the voters.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 05:47:44 pm »


About to launch this poll tonight, anything you would recommend changing?



Yes. I think that in order to get these new coins issued, a wide majority should be required in the poll, not only a 51%. 

I would say require a wide majority of minimum 70% yes - 30% no   out the voters.

But then it's also never going to happen, right?

I mean that's putting the barrier even higher, 51% participation won't happen, and even if it does, 70% saying yes only happens with strong agreement.


What would you say of, minimum 10% participation, but then at least 70% needs to agree?

I like that idea.

NxtSwe

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2016, 05:51:58 pm »


Thank you, I have not looked on other coins, so I have no idea.
I would probably look at fundamentals (like NXT used to have) and then check if the Community really believes in those fundamentals (like this Community used to do) before joining.
Or, maybe I'll just go back to spending time with my family & kids, that's probably the healthy decision.

Sorry to hear you are dissapointed  :-\

I'm not sure how I can respond to this.


Are you ok with how it's going with nxt coin?
If you had asked me 2-3 months ago I would have said no, back then I had the feeling that the community was dying.
But since the 2.0 plans were unleashed life was brought back to this community, and that gave me some hope.

Today, I would say yes.
I think that the 2.0 plans combined with TNNSE is a great combo.
Also, listening to Riker on your last talk you had he also sounded very hopeful, and I got the impression that things are going on behind the scenes.
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Nxter

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2016, 05:54:27 pm »


What would you say of, minimum 10% participation, but then at least 70% needs to agree?


Yes, that was my proposal. Wide majority (70%)  out of the voters not the whole stake.
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devlux

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2016, 06:22:01 pm »

No, that's probably a bad thing.  Let's say you mint 10% new coins, the value would drop 25% or more, the drop in value more than cancels out the increased wealth of the person receiving payment.   

You're going to see a 2.5x - 3x drop in value for every 1x increase in supply, roughly there abouts.

If you put a max cap of 0.1% annually, the effect wouldn't be so bad the loss to everyone's NAV wouldn't cause mass panic. 

Right now though, you're saying we'll have a fat guy do a belly flop into the liquidity pool and have the stakeholders votes on how high he jumps from.

So let me rephrase myself so it's clear. 
I think the idea of stakeholders controlling the total supply of currency is a good thing. 
It needs to be able to grow and shrink to meet market demands.

However, I think that having it all mint out at once is a really bad thing.
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EvilDave

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2016, 09:48:23 pm »

I'm gonna drop my vote into the 'Hell, no' box.  >:(

Sorry guys, but inflation is not what Nxt needs, even for a good cause.
Once we begin to fuck around like this with the basic principles of how Nxt works we have truly lost our way.

We've come a damn long way on our current funding, and can carry on for at least 6-12 months with what we have, assuming nothing changes in either NXT price or our outgoing expenses.

Lastly: Nxt 1.x is now pretty much stable, and will remain so for at least 12-18 months, maybe longer. We have a usable, nearly finished product that can handle so many possible applications that we literally don't have time to examine and investigate them all. Now is the time to be looking outward, finding projects and partneers, rather than looking inward to figure out complex schemes to squeeze value out of Nxt by changing the rules.

(this is, btw, what I most like about the Evolve proposition from Devlux: set up a self-sustaining incubator to bring projects into Nxt and make sure that they have the support to deliver on their potential. Get just a couple of good projects on-board and running, and we will no longer need discussions like this one.)

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rubenbc

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2016, 10:10:04 pm »

I strongly believe the same as @Dave.

Usually I don't get into the talks a for my poor English skills, but I read it daily. so interesting all points of views.

But please do not lose the sense of NXT. --- No inflation

I personally will donate 100,000 iotas to help financially NXT. (if inflation happens, discount my donation part)

devlux

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2016, 10:11:44 pm »

I strongly believe the same as @Dave.

Usually I don't get into the talks a for my poor English skills, but I read it daily. so interesting all points of views.

But please do not lose the sense of NXT. --- No inflation

I personally will donate 100,000 iotas to help financially NXT. (if inflation happens, discount my donation part)

And not 1 iota more?  :)
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rubenbc

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Re: New Poll: Do You Agree To Issue New Coins via Majority Voting?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2016, 10:19:41 pm »

I think a very reasonable deal for me and my financial position :D

if all those present we put a bit for NXT we will not need inflation. (I don't talk about economics)

Marc De Mesel

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Poll has been launched, see:
https://nxtportal.org/polls/12977696074128150035

Note, I launched 2 polls by accident, feel free to vote on both or just 1, votes will be aggregated at the end.

I wanted to let the poll run for 40 days, double the time the original ICO for NXT ran (20 days), but I noticed the maximum is 1.5 weeks :/ so runs until 2016/04/19

Sebastien256

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10% minimum participation is bad imo. It is mean a few can join together and control the coin issuance. My opinion is that 50% of the forging NXT amount is a strict minimum (about 21% at the moment), but I would first required a poll where 80% of all NXT approve this.

Concerning the poll, withtout a minimum participation, my thought is that 100% of all NXT would need to approve this first (which is obviously impossible).

See this post for a better understanding of what I think is fair:
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/the-social-contract/msg214649/#msg214649
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 06:49:59 am by Sebastien256 »
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