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meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
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Author Topic: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT  (Read 9594 times)

crumb-bum

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meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« on: November 02, 2014, 09:55:36 pm »

(copied from Price Speculation)

So I guess it's still unknown how secure NXT nodes would be on hyperboria, but it is obvious that hyperboria and NXT exist for the same reason and for the same people. It's silly to distrust central bankers (fiat governments) but simultaneously to trust the "spynet," as Wired Magazine recently proposed as a more accurate name for the internet.

What I am getting at is the need for nxters to collaborate with hyperborians. Here's example in this intriguing Q&A from an interview with a Hyperborian:

Q: Some of my readers are probably wondering why Project Meshnet and Hyperboria exist, and why they would be interested in it. What are its benefits? What would you say to them?

A: Assuming continued growth, Hyperboria and Hyperboria-like networks will provide a competing option to the Internet, much like Bitcoin is proving to be a competing option against mainstream currencies. If you’re entrepreneur-minded, then you might consider Hyperboria to have a bit of a wild-west, gold rush feel about it. As the users on the network grow, they require services that they are used to from the Internet. For instance, there’s nothing like Ebay or Amazon or Craiglist on Hyperboria. There’s nothing stopping someone from being the first in this space.

The interview is here: http://sett.com/alansjourney/52637

I think it's high time to let all the users of meshnet know about NXT's Freemarket, Asset Exchange, Monetary System, etc etc. Again, they are already using NXT's alias system, but I don't know how well familiar (if at all) they are with the rest of the NXT platform. I don't want to repeat efforts by other nxters, so please tell me if outreach has already been attempted from us to them.
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jl777

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2014, 09:57:40 pm »

(copied from Price Speculation)

So I guess it's still unknown how secure NXT nodes would be on hyperboria, but it is obvious that hyperboria and NXT exist for the same reason and for the same people. It's silly to distrust central bankers (fiat governments) but simultaneously to trust the "spynet," as Wired Magazine recently proposed as a more accurate name for the internet.

What I am getting at is the need for nxters to collaborate with hyperborians. Here's example in this intriguing Q&A from an interview with a Hyperborian:

Q: Some of my readers are probably wondering why Project Meshnet and Hyperboria exist, and why they would be interested in it. What are its benefits? What would you say to them?

A: Assuming continued growth, Hyperboria and Hyperboria-like networks will provide a competing option to the Internet, much like Bitcoin is proving to be a competing option against mainstream currencies. If you’re entrepreneur-minded, then you might consider Hyperboria to have a bit of a wild-west, gold rush feel about it. As the users on the network grow, they require services that they are used to from the Internet. For instance, there’s nothing like Ebay or Amazon or Craiglist on Hyperboria. There’s nothing stopping someone from being the first in this space.

The interview is here: http://sett.com/alansjourney/52637

I think it's high time to let all the users of meshnet know about NXT's Freemarket, Asset Exchange, Monetary System, etc etc. Again, they are already using NXT's alias system, but I don't know how well familiar (if at all) they are with the rest of the NXT platform. I don't want to repeat efforts by other nxters, so please tell me if outreach has already been attempted from us to them.
please reach out!
if you can find a hyperboria dev, I want to work with him to create a SuperNET gateway
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crumb-bum

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2014, 10:00:21 pm »

Will do, James! I'll keep you apprised of my progress, if any.
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slothbag

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2014, 12:58:36 am »

There's no hyperboria dev, that's like asking for an internet developer.. You want the guys working on cjdns.

The hyperboria community is probably even smaller than than the NXT community. Maybe only a few hundred people. Its a long road to financial success with NXT and hyperboria :)
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sparta_cuss

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2014, 01:10:57 am »

There's no hyperboria dev, that's like asking for an internet developer.. You want the guys working on cjdns.

The hyperboria community is probably even smaller than than the NXT community. Maybe only a few hundred people. Its a long road to financial success with NXT and hyperboria :)

Measuring the success of Nxt and hyperboria in terms of financial gain is like measuring the success of a democracy by how much you can sell your vote for. It kinda misses the point.
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crumb-bum

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 01:19:31 am »

Yes, I agree, sparta_cuss. There may be 1000 active nxters and 1000 active hyperborians, but if the two communities integrate they may achieve a critical mass of innovation and interest. There's no telling what wonders could come of such a confluence. The crucial thing to realize is that nxt and meshnet are decentralized versions of fiat money and "spynet" (i.e. internet). We should be working together.
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jl777

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 01:20:21 am »

There's no hyperboria dev, that's like asking for an internet developer.. You want the guys working on cjdns.

The hyperboria community is probably even smaller than than the NXT community. Maybe only a few hundred people. Its a long road to financial success with NXT and hyperboria :)
just need one dev to help
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sparta_cuss

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 01:33:24 am »

Yes, I agree, sparta_cuss. There may be 1000 active nxters and 1000 active hyperborians, but if the two communities integrate they may achieve a critical mass of innovation and interest. There's no telling what wonders could come of such a confluence. The crucial thing to realize is that nxt and meshnet are decentralized versions of fiat money and "spynet" (i.e. internet). We should be working together.

This is some very exciting stuff. I wish I was still writing code; I would love to help.
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apenzl

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 10:18:32 am »

please tell me if outreach has already been attempted from us to them.

Another fine guy (if it's not you ;D ) is interested in pushing Nxt < > Hyperboria.
http://nxter.org/hyperboria-adopts-nxt-aliases-for-dns-solution/#comment-1672837577

benjyz

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2014, 01:42:35 pm »

I've corresponded with CJ. anyone interested in this shoot me a PM please.

Edit - some more info:

CJ from CJDNS posted this in March: http://thewebmustdie.com/march_23_2014.html

He is mildly active on the UnSystem Mailing list. Here is his github: https://github.com/cjdelisle/ 

Here is an interview and a talk of his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zINQYkl01N8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCFmzGknUew
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 02:33:57 pm by benjyz »
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ChuckOne

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2014, 07:29:19 pm »

Updates?
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apenzl

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2014, 07:40:46 pm »

crumb-bum

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2014, 12:24:39 am »

Update: benjyz and I exchanged PMs early today, and then I went to work! Let me reconnect with benjyz and try to move this forward. Thanks for the nudge ;)
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crumb-bum

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 02:23:26 am »

In the first interview, CJ (creator of cjdns) says that he wants to attract programmers to create a user interface for hyperboria since he doesn't do front end. Now this interview took place over two years ago, but as far as I know--and I have not yet attempted to join hyperboria--the problem persists. I wonder if a collaboration is possible between CJ and some nxt dev who is good with user interfaces. Something like: nxt hooks you up with an interface, hyperboria adopts nxt, not just for its alias system, but as an entire economic platform, nxt looks into establishing a gateway onto hyperboria, that sort of thing. CJDNS is written in C, by the way. Does this sound like a plausible collaboration?

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benjyz

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 12:35:02 pm »

Does this sound like a plausible collaboration?

Although CJDNS is called a DNS, it is really a replacement for the complete Internet stack. So it does not run on the Internet. It replaces TCP/IP with different routing and addressing algos. It is an interesting area, but that is a very different scope. So meshnets and darknets are different things. Arguably Nxt is a kind of darknet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.A.T.M.A.N.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet

With regards to the Supernet idea..

Quote
This is the network that will be created by joining all the participating coins into a single unified network. Each coin will of course continue to operate normally, but there will be an option to use any of the services that are available in the Supernetwork. Each coin that joins the network makes it bigger and also adds its unique tech that is then crossmarketed to all the other nodes.

I have similar ideas. The key thing to notice is that coins have a price. So moving from Bitcoin to Nxt, means buying Nxt and selling Bitcoins at certain price. That's why Side-chains don't make sense. It is up to users to make decisions and move their wealth accordingly. How this is all going to play is hard to predict. It seems to me Nxt is at the fore-front of this, although it has received very little coverage up to now. It seems that cryptocurrencies and their communities have to grow slowly and organically. If a coin would solely run on a meshnet that would be a very interesting experiment. But the Internet has the property that 3 billion people are using it (as opposed to say 10'000 people that use meshnets).
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 12:37:46 pm by benjyz »
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crumb-bum

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2014, 02:10:02 pm »

Yes, in one of his interviews CJ stated that his goal with cjdns was not to replace TOR but to replace the internet, causing his interviewer to exclaim, "That's deep!"

I too have begun thinking of nxt as something like a darknet. It's true that 10,000 meshnet users < 3B internet users, but the ratio of meshnet users to internet users is bound to grow, possibly rather quickly, and it seems to me that while NXT has not yet attained that critical mass of users after which magical things begin to happen, it may happen very soon. I can't predict whether increasing the number of active, productive nxters from 1000 to 10,000 will do the trick or whether it's going to take 100,000, but the thing I like about the hyperboria / meshnet crowd is that they are committed, so each one who joins nxt is bound to contribute something.
 
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crumb-bum

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2014, 02:17:16 pm »

fascinating little conversation from the reddit page for cjdns

http://www.reddit.com/r/hyperboria/comments/2glf2b/p2pool_on_cjdns_still_desired/

[–]thefinn93 2 points 1 month ago
what is p2pool?

EDIT: nvm googled it. Bitcoin thing. If you build it, they will might come.
permalinksavereportgive goldreply

[–]chalbersma 2 points 1 month ago

True. Is reddit the primary place CJDNS/Hyperboria users congregate?
permalinksaveparentreportgive goldreply

[–]thefinn93 2 points 1 month ago

Nope. That'd be IRC.

permalinksaveparentreportgive goldreply

[–]kondrati 1 point 1 month ago

In a nutshell-
P2Pool is a peer to peer mining pool protcol, which uses similar blockchain tech that Bitcoin itself does. There exists a version for all major cryptocoins like Litecoin, Dogecoin, and others, so not mutually exclusive to BTC.
It is designed to help distribute mining pools. Centralization of pools has already caused problems.
Not sure how usefull a P2Pool node would be on Hyperboria, but definitely worth experimenting with as I think blockchains and meshnets were made for each other.
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[–]kondrati 1 point 1 month ago

Id have one online already if not for the 100 other things I have to do before getting there. But I will eventually.
I would love to put more blockchain nodes on Hyperboria.
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rudeboi

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2014, 06:08:19 pm »

I'm a bit confused now you could have nodes running on both internet and meshnet without forking occurring.

However it is a very promising area of collaboration .
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jl777

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2014, 06:25:31 pm »

I'm a bit confused now you could have nodes running on both internet and meshnet without forking occurring.

However it is a very promising area of collaboration .
fundamentally, packets come into a node and go out of a node. With the IP, it can go over fiberoptic, wifi, even carrier pigeons!

Of course, the pigeons will have a hard time meeting the 15 second time window

I think as long as packets are arriving within 15 seconds, then it doesnt matter the transport mechanism. Of course, this is not to say it wont take some low level surgery to the networking code
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benjyz

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Re: meshnet (darknet, hyperboria) and NXT
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2014, 06:37:44 pm »

I'm a bit confused now you could have nodes running on both internet and meshnet without forking occurring.

However it is a very promising area of collaboration .

Yeah, that's not possible. Meshnets don't scale globally - they don't have access to the fibreoptic cables that the Internet depends on. Asking carriers to adopt new Internet protocols is very similar to asking banks to adopt cryptocurrencies (not going to happen).

This is a good post explaining details of CJDNS, especially compared to Tor, i2p, etc.

http://paste.scratchbook.ch/view/3a428362#L6

And of course this whitepaper (not an easy read):

https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/blob/master/doc/Whitepaper.md
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 06:41:29 pm by benjyz »
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