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Latest Nxt Client 1.11.5 - NEW RELEASE: Ardor 2.0.3e TestNet IS LAUNCHED!

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Author Topic: Lets have a discuss THE CHOICE we all have pending, regarding your NXT and IGNIS  (Read 2693 times)

Sebastien256

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Sure we can trade childchain tokens between each other, but the main trading always between each childchain-token and ARDR.

Not necessarily as the fees for moving ARDR tokens between account are 100 times higher than moving childchain tokens.
Please drop your ideas concerning Nxt and/or NRS in this topic -> List of feature request for Nxt and/or NRS (with the full list in OP).

Jake-R

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I have my ARDR tokens tucked away and will do the same with whatever free IGNIS tokens I get, I am not going to buy extra. I will continue to Forge and support Nxt.

galeki

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Not necessarily as the fees for moving ARDR tokens between account are 100 times higher than moving childchain tokens.

100 times higher? Does that means we discouraging trading ARDR with exchanges(like Polo)?

And it works like a high transaction tax for ARDR. Does that means we want keep the price of ARDR low?

mister

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I donĀ“t know what is the purpose of this uncertainty given, forcing investors / community into a choice. Some people will lose and some people will win with their decision, converting this choice into a simple bet.

I hope the best for the ICO and I look forward for the details of it. Whoever is working on it, please consider that some degree of uncertainty is not good to attract more investors


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Sebastien256

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Not necessarily as the fees for moving ARDR tokens between account are 100 times higher than moving childchain tokens.

100 times higher? Does that means we discouraging trading ARDR with exchanges(like Polo)?

And it works like a high transaction tax for ARDR. Does that means we want keep the price of ARDR low?

Deposit and withdraw are discourage on centralized exchange like polo. Not trading.

The high fees on ARDR blockchain are on designed to prevent blockchain bloat, this is why IGNIS is a "transactional" coins and ARDR is a "network securing" coins.

In a sense, I see ARDR more like a gold asset, difficult to move and so on.
Please drop your ideas concerning Nxt and/or NRS in this topic -> List of feature request for Nxt and/or NRS (with the full list in OP).

Brangdon

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To Brangdon, I suppose you could say the same thing why does ETH have any value.  It's not really supposed to be used as money.  Depends what you believe.
How much value do coins have for a blockchain that does smart contracts?
I suppose people would pay a premium for a smart contract on a good proven tech vs a not so good one.  Maybe I'd pay $1000 to create a digital asset vs $100 on the good reputable one.
I don't think ETH is analogous to ARDR. It is more analogous to IGNIS. IGNIS should have value because it is the main transactional coin. It is what you use to create digital assets, etc. ARDR is only used for forging and for bundlers. If you don't forge and you don't bundle, you can use Ignis happily and never need to buy any ARDR. Hence no demand for it, even if the Ignis chain is successful and has a lot of users.

Indirectly, fees on all child chain end up as ARDR fees so there is demand for it as long as there are transactions on the Ardor platform.
If you are transacting on the Ignis chain, you pay fees in IGNIS not ARDR. The bundler needs to pay ARDR fees, but those will typically be a tiny fraction of the IGNIS value transacted, so while it's true the demand created by this is not zero, it is very low.

For example, if I buy an eBook off you for 1000 IGNIS, and pay 1 IGNIS fee, most of the demand comes from me having to acquire the 1000, not the 1.
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Sebastien256

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To Brangdon, I suppose you could say the same thing why does ETH have any value.  It's not really supposed to be used as money.  Depends what you believe.
How much value do coins have for a blockchain that does smart contracts?
I suppose people would pay a premium for a smart contract on a good proven tech vs a not so good one.  Maybe I'd pay $1000 to create a digital asset vs $100 on the good reputable one.
I don't think ETH is analogous to ARDR. It is more analogous to IGNIS. IGNIS should have value because it is the main transactional coin. It is what you use to create digital assets, etc. ARDR is only used for forging and for bundlers. If you don't forge and you don't bundle, you can use Ignis happily and never need to buy any ARDR. Hence no demand for it, even if the Ignis chain is successful and has a lot of users.

Indirectly, fees on all child chain end up as ARDR fees so there is demand for it as long as there are transactions on the Ardor platform.
If you are transacting on the Ignis chain, you pay fees in IGNIS not ARDR. The bundler needs to pay ARDR fees, but those will typically be a tiny fraction of the IGNIS value transacted, so while it's true the demand created by this is not zero, it is very low.

For example, if I buy an eBook off you for 1000 IGNIS, and pay 1 IGNIS fee, most of the demand comes from me having to acquire the 1000, not the 1.

But the idea of Ardor is to have hundred and thousand child chains subnet. 
Please drop your ideas concerning Nxt and/or NRS in this topic -> List of feature request for Nxt and/or NRS (with the full list in OP).

blackyblack1

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Sure we can trade childchain tokens between each other, but the main trading always between each childchain-token and ARDR.
No. The main trading pair should be IGNIS to asset and BTC to asset. Look at Waves DEX for example. ARDR trading is discouraged since any change on ARDR balance requires a permanent record on Ardor chain hence costs a lot.

galeki

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Sure we can trade childchain tokens between each other, but the main trading always between each childchain-token and ARDR.
No. The main trading pair should be IGNIS to asset and BTC to asset. Look at Waves DEX for example. ARDR trading is discouraged since any change on ARDR balance requires a permanent record on Ardor chain hence costs a lot.

Hmm...I guess the ARDR must be expensive, otherwise the security is vulnerable.

But if ARDR<->exchange trading is discouraged,
ARDR<->childchain token trading is discouraged,
sending ARDR to other people is discouraged.

Then where is the value of ARDR comes from?  ???

Sebastien256

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An ardor childchain token of ARDR's IOU by a third party could be trade at a cheap cost on the Ardor platform. Funny but possible.
Please drop your ideas concerning Nxt and/or NRS in this topic -> List of feature request for Nxt and/or NRS (with the full list in OP).

blackyblack1

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Sure we can trade childchain tokens between each other, but the main trading always between each childchain-token and ARDR.
No. The main trading pair should be IGNIS to asset and BTC to asset. Look at Waves DEX for example. ARDR trading is discouraged since any change on ARDR balance requires a permanent record on Ardor chain hence costs a lot.

Hmm...I guess the ARDR must be expensive, otherwise the security is vulnerable.

But if ARDR<->exchange trading is discouraged,
ARDR<->childchain token trading is discouraged,
sending ARDR to other people is discouraged.

Then where is the value of ARDR comes from?  ???
Exchange trading is not discouraged since it goes on offchain. Only ARDR deposits and withdrawals are onchain and I don't think it will be a showstopper for any decent trader.
Also I do not think a token value is highly dependent on trading activity. It should depend on demand and expectance on future growth I guess.

lurker10

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Then where is the value of ARDR comes from?  ???

Bundlers generate demand, and hence value, by buying Ardor if they are solely bundlers or not selling their stake if they perform two roles of bundlers/forgers. No transaction can be processed w/o incurring an Ardor fee, thus it's easy to see where demand and value comes from. It will help if the transactions volume is high, no doubt.
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forkedchain

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And I guess Ardor also works like the gold of all childchain tokens?

Sure we can trade childchain tokens between each other, but the main trading always between each childchain-token and ARDR.

???  the first part of your sentence seems to contradict the 2nd part.
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galeki

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Sure we can trade childchain tokens between each other, but the main trading always between each childchain-token and ARDR.
No. The main trading pair should be IGNIS to asset and BTC to asset. Look at Waves DEX for example. ARDR trading is discouraged since any change on ARDR balance requires a permanent record on Ardor chain hence costs a lot.

Hmm...I guess the ARDR must be expensive, otherwise the security is vulnerable.

But if ARDR<->exchange trading is discouraged,
ARDR<->childchain token trading is discouraged,
sending ARDR to other people is discouraged.

Then where is the value of ARDR comes from?  ???
Exchange trading is not discouraged since it goes on offchain. Only ARDR deposits and withdrawals are onchain and I don't think it will be a showstopper for any decent trader.
Also I do not think a token value is highly dependent on trading activity. It should depend on demand and expectance on future growth I guess.

Happy to know that. :)   :)

galeki

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Bundlers generate demand, and hence value, by buying Ardor if they are solely bundlers or not selling their stake if they perform two roles of bundlers/forgers. No transaction can be processed w/o incurring an Ardor fee, thus it's easy to see where demand and value comes from. It will help if the transactions volume is high, no doubt.

I guess ARDR will boom when we have like a hundred childchains.  ::)

galeki

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And I guess Ardor also works like the gold of all childchain tokens?

Sure we can trade childchain tokens between each other, but the main trading always between each childchain-token and ARDR.

???  the first part of your sentence seems to contradict the 2nd part.

Maybe a little.  ::) 

I just got that kind of feeling, trade every childcoins with ARDR(or maybe IGINS?), like we trade every altcoins with BTC.   

cayenne

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For every 1 NXT you get 2.5 Ignis in the first wave of the ICO
https://www.jelurida.com/ico

danp123

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From the latest announcement if you get in on the 1st round of the ICO, IGNIS will cost 0.4 next and go up week by week.  If you hold you'll get 0.5 IGNIS

So say you start out with 1000 NXT:
1. Buy ICO = 2500 IGNIS
2. Hold NXT = 1000 NXT and 500 IGINS (plus bitswift )

So if you did 1, you'd be betting 2000 IGNIS would be worth more than 1000 NXT.

Is this correct if you get in on the first wave.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:40:58 pm by danp123 »
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box1413

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cayenne

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From the latest announcement if you get in on the 1st round of the ICO, IGNIS will cost 0.4 next and go up week by week.  If you hold you'll get 0.5 IGNIS

So say you start out with 1000 NXT:
1. Buy ICO = 2500 IGNIS
2. Hold NXT = 1000 NXT and 500 IGINS (plus bitswift )

So if you did 1, you'd be betting 2000 IGNIS would be worth more than 1000 NXT.

Is this correct if you get in on the first wave.

Yes, I think that is correct. My opinion is that Ignis will quickly be worth more than NXT
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