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Nxt Discussion => Nxt General Discussion => Topic started by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 01:12:26 pm

Title: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 01:12:26 pm
Dear NXT community members, we have analysed the first buy in the IGNIS ICO earlier and we want to report our findings to you.
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. Buyers can distribute their funds to other accounts, or already have them set up, as well as other users who have already planned this and don't have their accounts known.
We understand that this is upsetting to users, and it is one reason why we have multiple rounds; we cannot control this in a decentralized ecosystem. The IGNIS sold this morning represents 1% of all the funds available in the Token Sale.
Until August 10th UTC, there will be 11 more opportunities to buy at the price of 0.4 NXT and starting from August 26th, 80 M will be available, though at the price of 0.55 NXT.
After these rounds are completed, still less than a third of all IGNIS to be sold will have been sold.

I'm here to answer any questions, but please keep on topic and try to stick to the facts.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: GoEthereum on August 05, 2017, 01:24:18 pm
Quote
And the whale is unloading even more for the next rounds. Just look at the frenzy of "buy currency" phased transactions in his transaction history lol. His NXT balance is now down to 500k+.

Everything will be wiped out by Whale and the ICO is screwed.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 01:27:32 pm
Quote
And the whale is unloading even more for the next rounds. Just look at the frenzy of "buy currency" phased transactions in his transaction history lol. His NXT balance is now down to 500k+.

Everything will be wiped out by Whale and the ICO is screwed.

Thanks for your insight. Predictions about the future are always difficult.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Neomadra on August 05, 2017, 01:30:36 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 01:33:25 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gcmartinelli on August 05, 2017, 01:36:16 pm
To me it seemed like the whale set up a series of phased transactions. Most went unfilled because there was no offer for JLRDA but one of them finally was filled.

If my assessment is correct this will lead to a "fees race" between whales. Those who pay the highest fees and can handle the pain of paying for high transaction fees on unfilled phased orders will accumulate most (if not all) IGNIS.

IMO this shows the ICO process is not "fair" to small stakeholders. If it is Jelurida's desire to have a broad ICO investor base I would suggest halting the ICO until it is figured out how to stop this type of "attack".

I'm not knowledgeable enought about Phased transaction and Currencies in NXT to give an opinion, but maybe there is a way to wall off JLRDA from these types of transactions (and from the API) leaving the ICO trully to luck for those using the GUI interface.

Kudo's to the smart whale that took advantage of NXT features... but for a small holder this was is disappointing.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: napdude on August 05, 2017, 01:36:32 pm
Dear NXT community members, we have analysed the first buy in the IGNIS ICO earlier and we want to report our findings to you.
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. Buyers can distribute their funds to other accounts, or already have them set up, as well as other users who have already planned this and don't have their accounts known.
We understand that this is upsetting to users, and it is one reason why we have multiple rounds; we cannot control this in a decentralized ecosystem. The IGNIS sold this morning represents 1% of all the funds available in the Token Sale.
Until August 10th UTC, there will be 11 more opportunities to buy at the price of 0.4 NXT and starting from August 26th, 80 M will be available, though at the price of 0.55 NXT.
After these rounds are completed, still less than a third of all IGNIS to be sold will have been sold.

I'm here to answer any questions, but please keep on topic and try to stick to the facts.


I agree fully that there is nothing to do about the sale of JLRDA coin to people using phased transactions to get in front of ordinary buyers. This is just how it is. As long as the method is known, everyone can try to do the same, if they want to.


However, there is the legal terms document that puts in rules for the exchange of JLRDA to IGNIS

Question : if an account controlled by someone who you know and can prove is an US citizien buys JLRDA and thus voids the terms, will you then use the option you have, to not give IGNIS tokens to that account, but instead refund the NXT and sell the IGNIS at a later time?



3.2 By participating in the crowdsale, You expressly declare, represent and warrant that:

(v) You are not a US citizen or resident;
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 01:36:46 pm
in other words you are telling us that it will be of if whales take all the bonus (1/2.5 ratio).
if this is the case, please instruct us how to leverage this "hack" and play the same game whales are playing, otherwise fix it or shut it down.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Logan on August 05, 2017, 01:37:15 pm
In my opinion the ICO should be stopped. In the next rounds there will be more people trying to use a bot in any way. They have to, cant blame them.

So everyone who has not the technic skills, has a massive disadvantage. If thats going on, the shitstorm will be huge. NXT had to fight with bad reputation because of the ICO for many years. Now Ignis starts with the same problem..  :-[
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rubenbc on August 05, 2017, 01:39:11 pm
Personally, as Nxt lover, I preferr to know that Ignis will have long term investors/members rather than pure speculators. It's well for me that someone will take care of 20.000.000 of Ignis. If I could have done it I would have done the same.
(now is time to spank me :D)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 01:40:44 pm
i see normal that big money get better prices...they are risking more capital...

if you go to invest into a seed capital project, you will have to throw big money.... small money can only go in an ipo which is more expensive than seed investment but less risky.

after this similarity, you could go to the snapshot and get ignis without problems with your nxt (just a little bit more expensive) but that is fair because you have got more information concernig how well or bad the ico went.

if the ico is bought by big pockets just in a second,well, that is the best signal one could get. Imagine,on the contray, that no one is backing Ignis.

it is a good signal, big money coming in. so the signal is buy for the snapshot. it wont be as cheaper as the Ico, but it is a good price taking into account the magnitude of the project
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gcmartinelli on August 05, 2017, 01:42:41 pm
i see normal that big money get better prices...they are risking more capital...

if you go to invest into a seed capital project, you will have to throw big money.... small money can only go in an ipo which is more expensive than seed investment but less risky.

I agree with you in parts. Yes they are taking more risk. But is it in the interest of Jelurida/IGNIS to have a small shareholder base? Or is it better to have a broad base of holders and supporters? I believe the latter... And this whale showed the ICO will not allow this to happen.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 01:44:58 pm
To me it seemed like the whale set up a series of phased transactions. Most went unfilled because there was no offer for JLRDA but one of them finally was filled.

If my assessment is correct this will lead to a "fees race" between whales. Those who pay the highest fees and can handle the pain of paying for high transaction fees on unfilled phased orders will accumulate most (if not all) IGNIS.

IMO this shows the ICO process is not "fair" to small stakeholders. If it is Jelurida's desire to have a broad ICO investor base I would suggest halting the ICO until it is figured out how to stop this type of "attack".

I'm not knowledgeable enought about Phased transaction and Currencies in NXT to give an opinion, but maybe there is a way to wall off JLRDA from these types of transactions (and from the API) leaving the ICO trully to luck for those using the GUI interface.

Kudo's to the smart whale that took advantage of NXT features... but for a small holder this was is disappointing.

As far as we can tell the phased transaction is not what gave the whale advantage here, since the block wasn't full, phased transaction did not provide any priority over the rest of the transactions.
The whale identified our phased exchange offer, approval transaction, and submitted his own approval transaction for his phased buy. But he could have just submitted a regular currency buy with the same effect.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: mister on August 05, 2017, 01:46:37 pm
Thanks Riker for stepping forward for explaining,

Was it a bot that was listening the unconfirmed transactions? I don´t think so as there were phased transactions from that account starting on the 28th July in order to cover all possible blocks for the ICO time slot

This was the first transaction
https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082 (https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082)

The thing is that you tried to avoid this to happen and it did happen. I understand your struggle, as well as you understand how frustrating this was for potential investors.
It is ok to make mistakes, but it is too risky to keep on making them. It will happen in the next round, and in the next and finally a small chunk will be available to those who though not being whales they have enough technical knowledge to publish 45 phased transactions.

You know what it is going to be said from this ICO if it is not amended? Scam FUD, lack of experience from Jelurida to manage a company properly... I think we all don´t want to hear that, it was enough with the nxt launch in 2013


Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 05, 2017, 01:46:57 pm
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. [...]
With transparent forging, can you predict which node will forge the next block, and send your transaction to that node directly so that bots listening to unconfirmed transactions won't see it? Perhaps modify the node so that it doesn't broadcast the transaction itself. (This wouldn't need a hard fork, but it would need a trusted node that will forge in the published window of time.)

Can you have the account which forges the block, reject any buy orders for sell orders in the same block? This would best be done as an option on any sell order, that all nodes were bound to respect, rather than as a special case for this ICO. In that case it would need a hard fork.

Did you anticipate this happening? If so, didn't it bother you? Why didn't you take steps to prevent it? If you didn't anticipate it, then is this unanticipated event a good reason to suspend the ICO until the issue is dealt with?

My impression is that people are deeply upset about this. It calls into question the whole notion of using Nxt, and by implication Ardor, for ICOs and crowd-funding. There is a risk of major damage to the Nxt brand which it may not recover from. I think you seriously need to think about suspending the ICO until you can fix it. (And by "fix it" I mean make the ICO available to people who are not running bots.)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 01:48:20 pm
in other words you are telling us that it will be of if whales take all the bonus (1/2.5 ratio).
if this is the case, please instruct us how to leverage this "hack" and play the same game whales are playing, otherwise fix it or shut it down.

You need to look for unconfirmed transaction which approves the exchange offer we publish and when you see it submit your buy currency transaction.
You cannot do that using the IGNIS ICO page though since it will only allow to buy after the approval transaction is confirmed.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 01:49:09 pm
Please anyone who has the knowledge share a tutorial on how to process this phased transaction, so anyone can have the right to participate.

I agree it may end up with a gas race.
Sorry about this attitude from Jelurida, it is not ethic and good for the community.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Neomadra on August 05, 2017, 01:49:13 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

I see that Jelurida is in a very difficult position now but I was hoping that you would come up with some solution. Probably there is just no solution otherwise you would have suggested it.

If this continues, this will lead to a very bad distribution and much frustration. The history of Nxt somehow repeats.  :-\

I'm thinking about writing my own bot but I'm still considering if it's worth the effort.^^
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 01:55:26 pm
Thanks Riker for stepping forward for explaining,

Was it a bot that was listening the unconfirmed transactions? I don´t think so as there were phased transactions from that account starting on the 28th July in order to cover all possible blocks for the ICO time slot

This was the first transaction
https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082 (https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082)

The thing is that you tried to avoid this to happen and it did happen. I understand your struggle, as well as you understand how frustrating this was for potential investors.
It is ok to make mistakes, but it is too risky to keep on making them. It will happen in the next round, and in the next and finally a small chunk will be available to those who though not being whales they have enough technical knowledge to publish 45 phased transactions.

You know what it is going to be said from this ICO if it is not amended? Scam FUD, lack of experience from Jelurida to manage a company properly... I think we all don´t want to hear that, it was enough with the nxt launch in 2013

I agree the guy who bought the first batch did his home work for sure and practiced it a lot.
If we offer some chunks to small buyers what prevents a whale from separating his balance to smaller accounts and if band large balances why should we ban a whale that has 2M NXT which he bought yesterday for 300K$.
Either way someone will be unhappy about this.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 01:57:43 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: galeki on August 05, 2017, 01:58:52 pm
Is that only me feel the old plan (50% Ignis distribute to NXT holders, and 50% keep by Devs) is good enough?  ???

The JLRDA thing confused me a lot at beginning and I think so does a lot other average users, and when I finally understand the process then I found I can't get any.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 02:01:03 pm
...peoples stops to trust to this.

At this point it's not trust (already gone), is the fear of having a lot of NXT, bought for the ICO, that soon will fall drastically in price (actually NXT price is already dropping).
Sorry for the OP, you may have good intentions, but you also have to realize how negatively your decision of "keep on going" is affecting our community.
I am right now in a very bad decision to take: if to sell NXT before it will be too late.
You can't do this to us.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 02:03:13 pm
the man controlling the bot is risking his own money!!!he wanted all the Ignis because he trusts this project. He studied how to buy all those Ignis....

it is absolutly fair what he did!!!!

let him risk his own money...if ignis go south becuase one person wants to bet all his money buying all, ok, perfect...i will buy all the Ignis at 0 coins...if not, i will receive the snapshot
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:04:52 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.

Let's follow your logic:
A whale buys few more rounds as a result people lose trust in the token sale and no longer want to buy, since no one wants to buy, small investors can now buy as much as they like, problem solved.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 05, 2017, 02:06:44 pm
Thanks Riker for stepping forward for explaining,

Was it a bot that was listening the unconfirmed transactions? I don´t think so as there were phased transactions from that account starting on the 28th July in order to cover all possible blocks for the ICO time slot

This was the first transaction
https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082 (https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082)

The thing is that you tried to avoid this to happen and it did happen. I understand your struggle, as well as you understand how frustrating this was for potential investors.
It is ok to make mistakes, but it is too risky to keep on making them. It will happen in the next round, and in the next and finally a small chunk will be available to those who though not being whales they have enough technical knowledge to publish 45 phased transactions.

You know what it is going to be said from this ICO if it is not amended? Scam FUD, lack of experience from Jelurida to manage a company properly... I think we all don´t want to hear that, it was enough with the nxt launch in 2013

I agree the guy who bought the first batch did his home work for sure and practiced it a lot.
If we offer some chunks to small buyers what prevents a whale from separating his balance to smaller accounts and if band large balances why should we ban a whale that has 2M NXT which he bought yesterday for 300K$.
Either way someone will be unhappy about this.
If you prevent buy orders from being in the same block as the sell order, that will at least give everyone a chance. You can prevent phased transactions too, or at least ensure the "Ignis Token Sale" page also uses them. I don't think it's really acceptable to have an official "Ignis Token Sale" and encourage everyone to use it, when it puts buyers at a disadvantage and means they won't get any early tokens.

I think it will need a hard fork to change the NRS rules to prevent this happening again, but I don't see any technical or legal reason why that can't happen.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:10:46 pm
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. [...]
With transparent forging, can you predict which node will forge the next block, and send your transaction to that node directly so that bots listening to unconfirmed transactions won't see it? Perhaps modify the node so that it doesn't broadcast the transaction itself. (This wouldn't need a hard fork, but it would need a trusted node that will forge in the published window of time.)

Can you have the account which forges the block, reject any buy orders for sell orders in the same block? This would best be done as an option on any sell order, that all nodes were bound to respect, rather than as a special case for this ICO. In that case it would need a hard fork.

Did you anticipate this happening? If so, didn't it bother you? Why didn't you take steps to prevent it? If you didn't anticipate it, then is this unanticipated event a good reason to suspend the ICO until the issue is dealt with?

My impression is that people are deeply upset about this. It calls into question the whole notion of using Nxt, and by implication Ardor, for ICOs and crowd-funding. There is a risk of major damage to the Nxt brand which it may not recover from. I think you seriously need to think about suspending the ICO until you can fix it. (And by "fix it" I mean make the ICO available to people who are not running bots.)

The risk of a single whale getting the whole price level was anticipated of course as well as the risk of using phased transactions. This all has been discussed. Think what would have happened if a single whale would have bought the whole 60M in one minute.

See https://nxtwiki.org/wiki/FAQ
6.6 Is there a risk that a single large investor will fully buy the first price level and not let anyone else participate?[edit]
This risk exists like in any other token sale, and we cannot fully prevent it. We will try to make it difficult for a large investor to do so, by separating the sale of each price level to several smaller exchange offers which will be published without announcement of a specific block height. Also please consider that if someone does buy a large portion of the IGNIS tokens at one price level, they cannot sell it on to the buyers of the next price level due to the limitations imposed by the controllable currency.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 02:11:52 pm
let people buy whatever they want using all the legal means they can use (let be bots, better analysis or whatever).

you still have the snapshot option...if prices drops because this nonsense, the better for you because you can buy cheaper nxt for the snapshot and everybody will be happy
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Logan on August 05, 2017, 02:15:02 pm
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. [...]
With transparent forging, can you predict which node will forge the next block, and send your transaction to that node directly so that bots listening to unconfirmed transactions won't see it? Perhaps modify the node so that it doesn't broadcast the transaction itself. (This wouldn't need a hard fork, but it would need a trusted node that will forge in the published window of time.)

Can you have the account which forges the block, reject any buy orders for sell orders in the same block? This would best be done as an option on any sell order, that all nodes were bound to respect, rather than as a special case for this ICO. In that case it would need a hard fork.

Did you anticipate this happening? If so, didn't it bother you? Why didn't you take steps to prevent it? If you didn't anticipate it, then is this unanticipated event a good reason to suspend the ICO until the issue is dealt with?

My impression is that people are deeply upset about this. It calls into question the whole notion of using Nxt, and by implication Ardor, for ICOs and crowd-funding. There is a risk of major damage to the Nxt brand which it may not recover from. I think you seriously need to think about suspending the ICO until you can fix it. (And by "fix it" I mean make the ICO available to people who are not running bots.)

The risk of a single whale getting the whole price level was anticipated of course as well as the risk of using phased transactions. This all has been discussed. Think what would have happened if a single whale would have bought the whole 60M in one minute.

See https://nxtwiki.org/wiki/FAQ
6.6 Is there a risk that a single large investor will fully buy the first price level and not let anyone else participate?[edit]
This risk exists like in any other token sale, and we cannot fully prevent it. We will try to make it difficult for a large investor to do so, by separating the sale of each price level to several smaller exchange offers which will be published without announcement of a specific block height. Also please consider that if someone does buy a large portion of the IGNIS tokens at one price level, they cannot sell it on to the buyers of the next price level due to the limitations imposed by the controllable currency.

Its not the problem, that one user got the whole chunk. The problem is, that for normal NRS users there is no way to participate, although this is the official distribution platform.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 05, 2017, 02:15:22 pm
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. [...]
With transparent forging, can you predict which node will forge the next block, and send your transaction to that node directly so that bots listening to unconfirmed transactions won't see it? Perhaps modify the node so that it doesn't broadcast the transaction itself. (This wouldn't need a hard fork, but it would need a trusted node that will forge in the published window of time.)

Can you have the account which forges the block, reject any buy orders for sell orders in the same block? This would best be done as an option on any sell order, that all nodes were bound to respect, rather than as a special case for this ICO. In that case it would need a hard fork.

Did you anticipate this happening? If so, didn't it bother you? Why didn't you take steps to prevent it? If you didn't anticipate it, then is this unanticipated event a good reason to suspend the ICO until the issue is dealt with?

My impression is that people are deeply upset about this. It calls into question the whole notion of using Nxt, and by implication Ardor, for ICOs and crowd-funding. There is a risk of major damage to the Nxt brand which it may not recover from. I think you seriously need to think about suspending the ICO until you can fix it. (And by "fix it" I mean make the ICO available to people who are not running bots.)

The risk of a single whale getting the whole price level was anticipated of course as well as the risk of using phased transactions. This all has been discussed. Think what would have happened if a single whale would have bought the whole 60M in one minute.
But did you consider that they might use a bot to monitor unbroadcast transactions? If so, why didn't you do something about it? I've suggested two ways of preventing it.
[Edit] A third way would be to build the same facility into the "Ignis Token Sale" page. The important thing is that users of that page be on a level playing field with everyone else. At the moment, that page puts us at a disadvantage.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:15:52 pm
the man controlling the bot is risking his own money!!!he wanted all the Ignis because he trusts this project. He studied how to buy all those Ignis....

it is absolutly fair what he did!!!!

let him risk his own money...if ignis go south becuase one person wants to bet all his money buying all, ok, perfect...i will buy all the Ignis at 0 coins...if not, i will receive the snapshot

Indeed the buyer of the first round has risked NXT worth 300K$ because he trusts the community and Jelurida to deliver on their promises.
To put this in perspective, the whole funding raised by the NXT foundation in the last 3 years was less than 100K$ and the last donation campaign by the NXT foundation has raised less than 10K$ out of which 2.5K$ was donated by Jelurida and over 100$ by myself.

Bare in mind that we are competing with blockchain projects which raised dozens of millions.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 02:17:12 pm
the man controlling the bot is risking his own money!!!he wanted all the Ignis because he trusts this project. He studied how to buy all those Ignis....

it is absolutly fair what he did!!!!

let him risk his own money...if ignis go south becuase one person wants to bet all his money buying all, ok, perfect...i will buy all the Ignis at 0 coins...if not, i will receive the snapshot

FAIR will be if he will buy this coins in real sale without cheating. but how he does it this NOT fair deal
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: mister on August 05, 2017, 02:20:47 pm
Thanks Riker for stepping forward for explaining,

Was it a bot that was listening the unconfirmed transactions? I don´t think so as there were phased transactions from that account starting on the 28th July in order to cover all possible blocks for the ICO time slot

This was the first transaction
https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082 (https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082)

The thing is that you tried to avoid this to happen and it did happen. I understand your struggle, as well as you understand how frustrating this was for potential investors.
It is ok to make mistakes, but it is too risky to keep on making them. It will happen in the next round, and in the next and finally a small chunk will be available to those who though not being whales they have enough technical knowledge to publish 45 phased transactions.

You know what it is going to be said from this ICO if it is not amended? Scam FUD, lack of experience from Jelurida to manage a company properly... I think we all don´t want to hear that, it was enough with the nxt launch in 2013

I agree the guy who bought the first batch did his home work for sure and practiced it a lot.
If we offer some chunks to small buyers what prevents a whale from separating his balance to smaller accounts and if band large balances why should we ban a whale that has 2M NXT which he bought yesterday for 300K$.
Either way someone will be unhappy about this.

Could be, but I believe that in crypto the more the merrier. The more distributed the harder for a whale to plunk the price. 5000 users will take care of their 1000 JLRDA funds better than 1 whale that historically sold most of their NXT (though he regrets about it).

It would be sad that this ICO turns into a whale hackaton
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:21:22 pm
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. [...]
With transparent forging, can you predict which node will forge the next block, and send your transaction to that node directly so that bots listening to unconfirmed transactions won't see it? Perhaps modify the node so that it doesn't broadcast the transaction itself. (This wouldn't need a hard fork, but it would need a trusted node that will forge in the published window of time.)

Can you have the account which forges the block, reject any buy orders for sell orders in the same block? This would best be done as an option on any sell order, that all nodes were bound to respect, rather than as a special case for this ICO. In that case it would need a hard fork.

Did you anticipate this happening? If so, didn't it bother you? Why didn't you take steps to prevent it? If you didn't anticipate it, then is this unanticipated event a good reason to suspend the ICO until the issue is dealt with?

My impression is that people are deeply upset about this. It calls into question the whole notion of using Nxt, and by implication Ardor, for ICOs and crowd-funding. There is a risk of major damage to the Nxt brand which it may not recover from. I think you seriously need to think about suspending the ICO until you can fix it. (And by "fix it" I mean make the ICO available to people who are not running bots.)

The risk of a single whale getting the whole price level was anticipated of course as well as the risk of using phased transactions. This all has been discussed. Think what would have happened if a single whale would have bought the whole 60M in one minute.
But did you consider that they might use a bot to monitor unbroadcast transactions? If so, why didn't you do something about it? I've suggested two ways of preventing it.

Have to admit, for me the technique of listening to unconfirmed transactions and acting immediately wasn't on my list of concerns.
Frankly if we are looking at batches which go up in seconds there is no way to make them fare. Nodes with stronger CPU and better network connection and users with better tech skills will always have advantage in such a short time race.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:25:36 pm
As to the ICO page, it was designed to be user friendly for newbies, not as a launch pad for buying JLRDA in split second.
You have to realize that when designing it we had no idea if we are going to sell a single coin quickly or if had to beg users to buy it (like we had to do in previous fund raising campaigns)
So in a sense having a batch that is sold "too fast" is a good problem.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:27:14 pm
the man controlling the bot is risking his own money!!!he wanted all the Ignis because he trusts this project. He studied how to buy all those Ignis....

it is absolutly fair what he did!!!!

let him risk his own money...if ignis go south becuase one person wants to bet all his money buying all, ok, perfect...i will buy all the Ignis at 0 coins...if not, i will receive the snapshot

FAIR will be if he will buy this coins in real sale without cheating. but how he does it this NOT fair deal

Running a bot is not cheating, probably 80% of trades on crypto exchanges and fiat stock exchanges are performed by bots.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:28:56 pm
Thanks Riker for stepping forward for explaining,

Was it a bot that was listening the unconfirmed transactions? I don´t think so as there were phased transactions from that account starting on the 28th July in order to cover all possible blocks for the ICO time slot

This was the first transaction
https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082 (https://nxtportal.org/nxt?requestType=getTransaction&transaction=9576724230702610082)

The thing is that you tried to avoid this to happen and it did happen. I understand your struggle, as well as you understand how frustrating this was for potential investors.
It is ok to make mistakes, but it is too risky to keep on making them. It will happen in the next round, and in the next and finally a small chunk will be available to those who though not being whales they have enough technical knowledge to publish 45 phased transactions.

You know what it is going to be said from this ICO if it is not amended? Scam FUD, lack of experience from Jelurida to manage a company properly... I think we all don´t want to hear that, it was enough with the nxt launch in 2013

I agree the guy who bought the first batch did his home work for sure and practiced it a lot.
If we offer some chunks to small buyers what prevents a whale from separating his balance to smaller accounts and if band large balances why should we ban a whale that has 2M NXT which he bought yesterday for 300K$.
Either way someone will be unhappy about this.

Could be, but I believe that in crypto the more the merrier. The more distributed the harder for a whale to plunk the price. 5000 users will take care of their 1000 JLRDA funds better than 1 whale that historically sold most of their NXT (though he regrets about it).

It would be sad that this ICO turns into a whale hackaton

I still predict this crowdsale will be sold to 1000's of users and the 500M distributed to existing NXT users will surely reach 1000's of users.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 05, 2017, 02:28:56 pm
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. [...]
With transparent forging, can you predict which node will forge the next block, and send your transaction to that node directly so that bots listening to unconfirmed transactions won't see it? Perhaps modify the node so that it doesn't broadcast the transaction itself. (This wouldn't need a hard fork, but it would need a trusted node that will forge in the published window of time.)

Can you have the account which forges the block, reject any buy orders for sell orders in the same block? This would best be done as an option on any sell order, that all nodes were bound to respect, rather than as a special case for this ICO. In that case it would need a hard fork.

Did you anticipate this happening? If so, didn't it bother you? Why didn't you take steps to prevent it? If you didn't anticipate it, then is this unanticipated event a good reason to suspend the ICO until the issue is dealt with?

My impression is that people are deeply upset about this. It calls into question the whole notion of using Nxt, and by implication Ardor, for ICOs and crowd-funding. There is a risk of major damage to the Nxt brand which it may not recover from. I think you seriously need to think about suspending the ICO until you can fix it. (And by "fix it" I mean make the ICO available to people who are not running bots.)

The risk of a single whale getting the whole price level was anticipated of course as well as the risk of using phased transactions. This all has been discussed. Think what would have happened if a single whale would have bought the whole 60M in one minute.
But did you consider that they might use a bot to monitor unbroadcast transactions? If so, why didn't you do something about it? I've suggested two ways of preventing it.

Have to admit, for me the technique of listening to unconfirmed transactions and acting immediately wasn't on my list of concerns.
Frankly if we are looking at batches which go up in seconds there is no way to make them fare. Nodes with stronger CPU and better network connection and users with better tech skills will always have advantage in such a short time race.
If you do as I suggest, and require that the buy order be in the next block, that would give everyone 60 seconds to respond and get order in. That should be long enough for most people, with reasonable CPU and network connections. We'll then be competing mainly on transaction fees.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 02:29:14 pm
the man controlling the bot is risking his own money!!!he wanted all the Ignis because he trusts this project. He studied how to buy all those Ignis....

it is absolutly fair what he did!!!!

let him risk his own money...if ignis go south becuase one person wants to bet all his money buying all, ok, perfect...i will buy all the Ignis at 0 coins...if not, i will receive the snapshot

FAIR will be if he will buy this coins in real sale without cheating. but how he does it this NOT fair deal

there is no cheat because you could have done the same thing. he just was more clever than the rest of us.


SOLUTION: let's create a pool (like nxt leased to forge) in order to exploit this issue a compite with him....ignis will be distributed in accordance with nxt investment in this pool
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:31:18 pm
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. [...]
With transparent forging, can you predict which node will forge the next block, and send your transaction to that node directly so that bots listening to unconfirmed transactions won't see it? Perhaps modify the node so that it doesn't broadcast the transaction itself. (This wouldn't need a hard fork, but it would need a trusted node that will forge in the published window of time.)

Can you have the account which forges the block, reject any buy orders for sell orders in the same block? This would best be done as an option on any sell order, that all nodes were bound to respect, rather than as a special case for this ICO. In that case it would need a hard fork.

Did you anticipate this happening? If so, didn't it bother you? Why didn't you take steps to prevent it? If you didn't anticipate it, then is this unanticipated event a good reason to suspend the ICO until the issue is dealt with?

My impression is that people are deeply upset about this. It calls into question the whole notion of using Nxt, and by implication Ardor, for ICOs and crowd-funding. There is a risk of major damage to the Nxt brand which it may not recover from. I think you seriously need to think about suspending the ICO until you can fix it. (And by "fix it" I mean make the ICO available to people who are not running bots.)

The risk of a single whale getting the whole price level was anticipated of course as well as the risk of using phased transactions. This all has been discussed. Think what would have happened if a single whale would have bought the whole 60M in one minute.
But did you consider that they might use a bot to monitor unbroadcast transactions? If so, why didn't you do something about it? I've suggested two ways of preventing it.

Have to admit, for me the technique of listening to unconfirmed transactions and acting immediately wasn't on my list of concerns.
Frankly if we are looking at batches which go up in seconds there is no way to make them fare. Nodes with stronger CPU and better network connection and users with better tech skills will always have advantage in such a short time race.
If you do as I suggest, and require that the buy order be in the next block, that would give everyone 60 seconds to respond and get order in. That should be long enough for most people, with reasonable CPU and network connections. We'll then be competing mainly on transaction fees.

Fine, but what would prevent a whale from paying 2000 NXT transaction fee and buy the whole batch? This would still be just 0.1% fee for this whale.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 02:32:28 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.

Let's follow your logic:
A whale buys few more rounds as a result people lose trust in the token sale and no longer want to buy, since no one wants to buy, small investors can now buy as much as they like, problem solved.

to continue your logic: you dont want or cant do something for fair sale. then you can stop the sale and change the rules
-for 60m coins price 0.4 if you buy in one deal size is 2m or more
- for 80m coins price is 0.55 if you buy in one deal 100k to 2m ....

im not versus whales how many money they invest this is they problem. im for fair coin selling, without cheating, bots etc. for all comunity have a chance to get coins for lower price . but dont eat remains from whales table

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Logan on August 05, 2017, 02:32:51 pm
As to the ICO page, it was designed to be user friendly for newbies, not as a launch pad for buying JLRDA in split second.
You have to realize that when designing it we had no idea if we are going to sell a single coin quickly or if had to beg users to buy it (like we had to do in previous fund raising campaigns)
So in a sense having a batch that is sold "too fast" is a good problem.
Iam sorry but thats a poor excuse. Everyone who is active in slack knew for weeks that the first batch will be sold very quick. And isnt that the reason why you splitted it up?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 02:33:50 pm
...peoples stops to trust to this.

At this point it's not trust (already gone)...

i still hope that devs do something
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Jean-Luc on August 05, 2017, 02:34:36 pm
If you do as I suggest, and require that the buy order be in the next block, that would give everyone 60 seconds to respond and get order in. That should be long enough for most people, with reasonable CPU and network connections. We'll then be competing mainly on transaction fees.
No, this would just require editing the script to listen for upcoming blocks (with an exchange offer approval in them) instead of listening for unconfirmed approval transactions. The one that sees the block first and broadcasts out a purchase transaction before the others will still get his order processed first (assuming fee was also high enough to find a place in the next block).
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 02:36:58 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.

Let's follow your logic:
A whale buys few more rounds as a result people lose trust in the token sale and no longer want to buy, since no one wants to buy, small investors can now buy as much as they like, problem solved.

to continue your logic: you dont want or cant do something for fair sale. then you can stop the sale and change the rules
-for 60m coins price 0.4 if you buy in one deal size is 2m or more
- for 80m coins price is 0.55 if you buy in one deal 100k to 2m ....

im not versus whales how many money they invest this is they problem. im for fair coin selling, without cheating, bots etc. for all comunity have a chance to get coins for lower price . but dont eat remains from whales table

there is no cheat

what is no fair is that because you dont like bots rules must be changed.

you can develop your own bot and do all the implementations on it that you want in order to outsmart us and it will be fair.

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:38:39 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.

Let's follow your logic:
A whale buys few more rounds as a result people lose trust in the token sale and no longer want to buy, since no one wants to buy, small investors can now buy as much as they like, problem solved.

to continue your logic: you dont want or cant do something for fair sale. then you can stop the sale and change the rules
-for 60m coins price 0.4 if you buy in one deal size is 2m or more
- for 80m coins price is 0.55 if you buy in one deal 100k to 2m ....

im not versus whales how many money they invest this is they problem. im for fair coin selling, without cheating, bots etc. for all comunity have a chance to get coins for lower price . but dont eat remains from whales table

There is no end to this, give me an ICO schedule and I show you how buyers can exploit it.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: fumble on August 05, 2017, 02:39:38 pm
I am holding to my small amount of NXT since years now, but now I am saying goodbye.

The developers made a mistake. Okay that can happen. No big deal so far. But the reaction of Jelurida: "Yeah, sorry, someone cheated... lets hope that no one will in the next 11 phases... and if someone does... there are more IGNIS to come... they are more expensive, but who cares?

And it is not only about money... they are also wasting my time! For them it seems no problem that the people who want to buy IGNIS will spend about half an hour every day sitting in front of the NXT client waiting for their chance to get some cheap IGNIS... and hopefully no cheater occurs.

Don't get me wrong: I don't blame the cheater. I would have done the same if I would have more NXT. But with 4000 NXT it makes no sense to put so much effort in a bot. With this in mind it is clear that only the big whales get cheap IGNIS... this is bad for the distribution of the coin. Some people might say: The fiat world is the same. But this is no argument, because crypto-coins are invented to make things better.

Another thing this ICO shows is: NXT is not good for ICOs.

For me they fucked it up completely. Not on purpose, but they fucked it up. Bye bye NXT. Hello IOTA.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 02:41:45 pm
the man controlling the bot is risking his own money!!!he wanted all the Ignis because he trusts this project. He studied how to buy all those Ignis....

it is absolutly fair what he did!!!!

let him risk his own money...if ignis go south becuase one person wants to bet all his money buying all, ok, perfect...i will buy all the Ignis at 0 coins...if not, i will receive the snapshot

FAIR will be if he will buy this coins in real sale without cheating. but how he does it this NOT fair deal

Running a bot is not cheating, probably 80% of trades on crypto exchanges and fiat stock exchanges are performed by bots.

i know about it. but trading bots dont buy orders before they is displayed on screen or buy/sell window. but in this situation aviable balance all 30 min was 0. maybe somebody in comunity has seen aviable balance more than 0? please let us know
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: chesslover on August 05, 2017, 02:42:56 pm
I am now starting to feel that the only priority is to take the money from the sale at all costs, even if it smacks of unfairness and ditching the welfare of the poor little users who make up most of the Nxt community.

Whine and cry as all of you may, but I take the money thank you very much.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:44:56 pm
As to the ICO page, it was designed to be user friendly for newbies, not as a launch pad for buying JLRDA in split second.
You have to realize that when designing it we had no idea if we are going to sell a single coin quickly or if had to beg users to buy it (like we had to do in previous fund raising campaigns)
So in a sense having a batch that is sold "too fast" is a good problem.
Iam sorry but thats a poor excuse. Everyone who is active in slack knew for weeks that the first batch will be sold very quick. And isnt that the reason why you splitted it up?

Anyway, the design goal of the IGNIS Token Sale page is to be user friendly and prevent users from buying the JLRDA, GLIDA, IGNCO and all the imaginary tokens scammers came up with and mask users from the complexity of the exchange booth, and not to provide humans fair competition with bots.
Perhaps this wasn't emphasized enough and I take full responsibility for this on myself.
I'm quite sure that this page will become very useful after the initial buying spree is finished.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 02:45:11 pm
I understand this ICO is only for people with the skills to play with the technical aspects of transactions.
Additionally, this people is not providing directions on how to do so (understandable).

Looks very likely that the wallet token sale function will not work for me.
Should I sell all my NXT and ARDOR before it's too late and maybe buy later, as someone here suggested?
May be nothing to you but 2300 USD I accumulated for this project are going to drop quickly if I do not move fast

edit URGENT: I am already in a loss now, anyone can please PM me to explain how to do this ICO transaction "cheat"?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: zombie41 on August 05, 2017, 02:46:59 pm
If the Allotted amount of IgnisICO tokens were bought up last night at midnight PCT then why was I able to by 18,000 of them at 7:30 am PCT?   Can someone explain?  Did I buy the right things?  MYNXT wallet has them listed under the code IGICO and the Name IgnisICO.
Thanks J
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:51:30 pm
I am holding to my small amount of NXT since years now, but now I am saying goodbye.

The developers made a mistake. Okay that can happen. No big deal so far. But the reaction of Jelurida: "Yeah, sorry, someone cheated... lets hope that no one will in the next 11 phases... and if someone does... there are more IGNIS to come... they are more expensive, but who cares?

And it is not only about money... they are also wasting my time! For them it seems no problem that the people who want to buy IGNIS will spend about half an hour every day sitting in front of the NXT client waiting for their chance to get some cheap IGNIS... and hopefully no cheater occurs.

Don't get me wrong: I don't blame the cheater. I would have done the same if I would have more NXT. But with 4000 NXT it makes no sense to put so much effort in a bot. With this in mind it is clear that only the big whales get cheap IGNIS... this is bad for the distribution of the coin. Some people might say: The fiat world is the same. But this is no argument, because crypto-coins are invented to make things better.

Another thing this ICO shows is: NXT is not good for ICOs.

For me they fucked it up completely. Not on purpose, but they fucked it up. Bye bye NXT. Hello IOTA.

IOTA seriously.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:53:04 pm
If the Allotted amount of IgnisICO tokens were bought up last night at midnight PCT then why was I able to by 18,000 of them at 7:30 am PCT?   Can someone explain?  Did I buy the right things?  MYNXT wallet has them listed under the code IGICO and the Name IgnisICO.
Thanks J

You probably bought a scam token. That's why we designed the IGNIS Token Sale page so that these things won't happen to users and begged everyone to use it.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 02:54:16 pm
IOTA seriously.

Let me remind you your role here, please do not start a flame.
If you can help it would be great.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: S3MKi on August 05, 2017, 02:54:20 pm
it is a bullshit. do you want next NXT when a small group of people has a huge amout of Ignis? what are you talking about? Why do you not make ico like JINN?! Who need this scam ico? So you think we will wait while this whale will buy next 2-3 batch of ignis? It is not decenralize system. It is bullshit. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: S3MKi on August 05, 2017, 02:56:35 pm
But the reaction of Jelurida: "Yeah, sorry, someone cheated... lets hope that no one will in the next 11 phases... and if someone does... there are more IGNIS to come... they are more expensive, but who cares?

think same. lol.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:56:48 pm
it is a bullshit. do you want next NXT when a small group of people has a huge amout of Ignis? what are you talking about? Why do you not make ico like JINN?! Who need this scam ico? So you think we will wait while this whale will buy next 2-3 batch of ignis? It is not decenralize system. It is bullshit. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

ETH, IOTA now JINN ?
Please stay on topic.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 02:57:47 pm
But the reaction of Jelurida: "Yeah, sorry, someone cheated... lets hope that no one will in the next 11 phases... and if someone does... there are more IGNIS to come... they are more expensive, but who cares?

think same. lol.

Understanding the blockchain and taking advantage of its capabilities is not cheating.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 05, 2017, 02:58:28 pm
Fine, but what would prevent a whale from paying 2000 NXT transaction fee and buy the whole batch? This would still be just 0.1% fee for this whale.
Someone else paying 2001 NXT. If someone wants to spend the money, they will get it. The best you can do is make the playing field level. At the moment it isn't.

Another approach would be to take all the buy orders that make the block, and share the sell order out between them in some proportion. For example, if there are bids of 5M, 5M, 1M and 1K, then the chap bidding 1K would get 5,000,000 / 11,001,000 = 454.5, which is not a lot but better than nothing. The 1M chap would get 1,000 times that, etc. Whales would bid multiple times, but they can't bid more than they own.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 02:58:37 pm
Please,
someone with care for the community, please, publish a tutorial here on how to "hack" the ICO transaction.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: chesslover on August 05, 2017, 03:00:46 pm
So sorry guys, they just want the money.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: silenthill27 on August 05, 2017, 03:01:18 pm
Live and learn and all that right?

It's unfathomably disheartening that your answer is just "meh, sorry just buy more later im sure it'll be fine huehue". You can't even pretend like you give a shit. I've been excited for weeks about this tech and the potential behind it, and have bought a significant chunk. That's a pretty big fu to your smaller investors. You boys have a lot to learn about customer relations. You don't seem to care and will not work to repair the damage to your reputation this has done.

You want to try to salvage this, stop the ico, implement it somewhere else, offer it 5 rounds like you planned. At least if 60m is on the table there will be a chance smaller people can get some. And do it a platform that doesn't have features built in to exploit this shit.

Otherwise expect a lot of people to take their money elsewhere, and enjoy your new centralized decentralized currency
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: S3MKi on August 05, 2017, 03:06:10 pm
Please stay on topic.
we are on topic. one man bought 5000 000 all first batch and you continue ico like nothing happened.
What will you do to protect us from this scam situation?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 03:06:40 pm
Otherwise expect a lot of people to take their money elsewhere

I agree, but people like me who spent part of their savings for this ICO are at loss.
I can't easily get back my investment from this useless and dying NXT stack I have.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 03:09:52 pm
@everyone: Please stay on topic, this is about the progress of the IGNIS ICO, not about other platforms or sales, or about how Jelurida planned their roadmap. Also please stay civil. Thank you.

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: danp123 on August 05, 2017, 03:10:20 pm
I just converted 75% of my NXT to BTC and maybe will buy back at the snapshot when the price of NXT crashes and the devs sell.  I was going to do a little less yesterday, but the price skyrocketed, this morning I just don't care as I have 0 chance to get in on the ICO.

The BTC price vs NXT at the time of the snapshot, Oct/Nov will probably be equal to paying .4 right now.

Also I don't know why we have to sit around waiting until Oct while nothing happens and BTC goes up.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: abctc on August 05, 2017, 03:13:48 pm
This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?
- yes, you should.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 03:16:49 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.

Let's follow your logic:
A whale buys few more rounds as a result people lose trust in the token sale and no longer want to buy, since no one wants to buy, small investors can now buy as much as they like, problem solved.

to continue your logic: you dont want or cant do something for fair sale. then you can stop the sale and change the rules
-for 60m coins price 0.4 if you buy in one deal size is 2m or more
- for 80m coins price is 0.55 if you buy in one deal 100k to 2m ....

im not versus whales how many money they invest this is they problem. im for fair coin selling, without cheating, bots etc. for all comunity have a chance to get coins for lower price . but dont eat remains from whales table

There is no end to this, give me an ICO schedule and I show you how buyers can exploit it.

but if you know about tihis problem, then why you starts this circus wiht rounds, stretching time for 30min? i think that im not alone who  sits full 30min and watched at screen and watis- when you finally drop coins to sell... and what happends? nothing happends
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 03:17:23 pm
another option is to assign ignis in a prorate basis

example: next batch will be 18:45-19:45 for 5 millions ignis

let people bet:
person a bids 5000000 nxt
person b bids 10000000 nxt
person c bids 200000 nxt

total nxt bid=15200000 nxt

so
a bid=33% of all nxt-->recieve 33% ignis
b bid=66% of all nxt-->receive 66% ignis
c bid=1% of all nxt-->receive 1% ignis

a will buy 33% ignis =0.33×5000000=1650000 ignis= 660000 nxt spent

b will buy 66% ignis=0.66x5000000=3300000 ignis=
1320000 nxt spent

c will buy 1% ignis=0.01x5000000=50000 ignis=20000 nxt spent

and you return the difference between nxt bid and nxt spent to each bettor

in this way everybody will have some ignis in function of the prorate nxt used to bid
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ron on August 05, 2017, 03:21:38 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.

Let's follow your logic:
A whale buys few more rounds as a result people lose trust in the token sale and no longer want to buy, since no one wants to buy, small investors can now buy as much as they like, problem solved.

to continue your logic: you dont want or cant do something for fair sale. then you can stop the sale and change the rules
-for 60m coins price 0.4 if you buy in one deal size is 2m or more
- for 80m coins price is 0.55 if you buy in one deal 100k to 2m ....

im not versus whales how many money they invest this is they problem. im for fair coin selling, without cheating, bots etc. for all comunity have a chance to get coins for lower price . but dont eat remains from whales table

There is no end to this, give me an ICO schedule and I show you how buyers can exploit it.

Use the forging algorithm for distribution. every node will get forging power x50 or x100 and receives ignis according to their NXT-stake. With every ignis you forge you have to pay 1 NXT and high forging power will decrease quicker. So ignis will be distributed evenly to users of the platform (forgers).
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: bpie on August 05, 2017, 03:24:22 pm
So let's recap the past few months.  First you announce that all NXT holders will receive IGNIS at the snapshot, and that Ardor would be release at the same time.  Not surprisingly, NXT's price goes up.  Fast forward a bit, and now IGNIS will have an ICO, but don't worry, NXT holders will still receive their IGNIS.  No other details regarding the ICO are release, and NXT continues with steady growth.  Fast forward a bit more, turns out the ICO will offer IGNIS at a discount far superior than the conversion rate of the snapshot.  Skipping whatever line of bullshit you want to throw out, everyone knows that NXT will retain almost no value post Ardor.  Those who purchased NXT for the sole reason of owning IGNIS are now at a net loss on their investment.

But don't worry guys, everyone will get a chance to buy at the discounted price.  How?  Give us a few weeks to think about it.  Ok, we got it.  We are going to sell in small lots at random intervals during designated periods.  What's that, you think someone might buy all 5mil preventing anyone else from participating.  Hmm, could happen I guess.  Let's see, we really don't want to think anymore.

Let's be real for a second, your dragged out broken up blocks ICO format was never about giving everyone a chance.  It's a way to maintain an artificially high price as you accumulate NXT via the ICO.  Blocks are slowly rolled out, you guys have a chance to dump, and the price rebounds by the next block.  Rinse, repeat.

Now we get the aww schucks guys we didn't expect it, but it's good news because it proves big money believes in us.  How would we know this would happen?  Did you see how much we raised last time?

Hey guys, you work in the industry, I'm sure you are aware than ANY ICO sells out in minutes.  If AIDSCOIN had a decent website, they would sell out just as fast.  One guy buying it all doesn't reflect any faith in the team or the product, it's the nature of the market.  If not him, then someone else.  If not IGNIS, then another coin.  It doesn't matter because 9x out of 10, an ICO purchase can be dumped at a profit.

You celebrated on twitter when you knew full well how your first block was sold.  You told everyone to fuck off in slack, and we didn't hear a peep.  Now, as we head towards the second block, NXT's price is crashing.  Well bring on the bullshit damage control.  Are you going to do anything?  No.  Unless you count feigning surprise as something.

 "Who could of saw this coming guys?  What's that, did you say everyone?  Well not everyone.  Certainly not us.  We used our sale from however many years ago as our foundation for expectations.  Sure the market cap has increased by over 100x since then, but it should work the same right?"

Just own your bullshit.  Admit that it was time you got yours.  You've worked on a nothing budget for years and watched shit projects ride golden jets to the moon.  Your not dumb, I know because I wasted too much time following interviews and reading this forum.  You knew how this would play out, you just didn't plan on people being as pissed as they are.

 Your tech is solid if not top of the line.  Your business acumen, it's complete shit.  If you don't use your new resources to fix the latter, the former will never matter.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 03:24:32 pm
Is this final or will there be any reconsiderations if whales continue eating up all cheap NXT?

This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?

i think that no. but if you cant stop it he can take 12% or 30%. do you think that this is a good when so big capital is in one hands? may be you can change somthing in buy terminal, set captcha or somthing like this, enter one deal limits. becouse if sales will continioues as in first sale this will be looks like a charade. and peoples stops to trust to this.

Let's follow your logic:
A whale buys few more rounds as a result people lose trust in the token sale and no longer want to buy, since no one wants to buy, small investors can now buy as much as they like, problem solved.

to continue your logic: you dont want or cant do something for fair sale. then you can stop the sale and change the rules
-for 60m coins price 0.4 if you buy in one deal size is 2m or more
- for 80m coins price is 0.55 if you buy in one deal 100k to 2m ....

im not versus whales how many money they invest this is they problem. im for fair coin selling, without cheating, bots etc. for all comunity have a chance to get coins for lower price . but dont eat remains from whales table

There is no end to this, give me an ICO schedule and I show you how buyers can exploit it.

but if you know about tihis problem, then why you starts this circus wiht rounds, stretching time for 30min? i think that im not alone who  sits full 30min and watched at screen and watis- when you finally drop coins to sell...

We weren't aware of this specific type of approach to taking advantage using a bot.
The 30 minutes random block height was meant to mitigate against phased transactions which do not require a bot and against network congestion.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 03:37:00 pm
So let's recap the past few months.  First you announce that all NXT holders will receive IGNIS at the snapshot, and that Ardor would be release at the same time.  Not surprisingly, NXT's price goes up.  Fast forward a bit, and now IGNIS will have an ICO, but don't worry, NXT holders will still receive their IGNIS.  No other details regarding the ICO are release, and NXT continues with steady growth.  Fast forward a bit more, turns out the ICO will offer IGNIS at a discount far superior than the conversion rate of the snapshot.  Skipping whatever line of bullshit you want to throw out, everyone knows that NXT will retain almost no value post Ardor.  Those who purchased NXT for the sole reason of owning IGNIS are now at a net loss on their investment.

But don't worry guys, everyone will get a chance to buy at the discounted price.  How?  Give us a few weeks to think about it.  Ok, we got it.  We are going to sell in small lots at random intervals during designated periods.  What's that, you think someone might buy all 5mil preventing anyone else from participating.  Hmm, could happen I guess.  Let's see, we really don't want to think anymore.

Let's be real for a second, your dragged out broken up blocks ICO format was never about giving everyone a chance.  It's a way to maintain an artificially high price as you accumulate NXT via the ICO.  Blocks are slowly rolled out, you guys have a chance to dump, and the price rebounds by the next block.  Rinse, repeat.

Now we get the aww schucks guys we didn't expect it, but it's good news because it proves big money believes in us.  How would we know this would happen?  Did you see how much we raised last time?

Hey guys, you work in the industry, I'm sure you are aware than ANY ICO sells out in minutes.  If AIDSCOIN had a decent website, they would sell out just as fast.  One guy buying it all doesn't reflect any faith in the team or the product, it's the nature of the market.  If not him, then someone else.  If not IGNIS, then another coin.  It doesn't matter because 9x out of 10, an ICO purchase can be dumped at a profit.

You celebrated on twitter when you knew full well how your first block was sold.  You told everyone to fuck off in slack, and we didn't hear a peep.  Now, as we head towards the second block, NXT's price is crashing.  Well bring on the bullshit damage control.  Are you going to do anything?  No.  Unless you count feigning surprise as something.

 "Who could of saw this coming guys?  What's that, did you say everyone?  Well not everyone.  Certainly not us.  We used our sale from however many years ago as our foundation for expectations.  Sure the market cap has increased by over 100x since then, but it should work the same right?"

Just own your bullshit.  Admit that it was time you got yours.  You've worked on a nothing budget for years and watched shit projects ride golden jets to the moon.  Your not dumb, I know because I wasted too much time following interviews and reading this forum.  You knew how this would play out, you just didn't plan on people being as pissed as they are.

 Your tech is solid if not top of the line.  Your business acumen, it's complete shit.  If you don't use your new resources to fix the latter, the former will never matter.

Welcome to the forum, so you are arguing that we should have designed the crowd sale that sells in 15 minutes to 3 whales, instead of working for month to design a blockchain based ICO using our own technology?
We are selling an operational token of a blockchain product which is far superior to anything else, not a speculative investment. The guy who bought the first round understood how the token operates and took advantage of this, we cannot prevent this, he didn't cheat, he used the platform in a sophisticated way and by doing so proved that he believes in the future of the project and not just use it for speculation.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 05, 2017, 03:38:22 pm
Use the forging algorithm for distribution. every node will get forging power x50 or x100 and receives ignis according to their NXT-stake. With every ignis you forge you have to pay 1 NXT and high forging power will decrease quicker. So ignis will be distributed evenly to users of the platform (forgers).

But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 03:43:30 pm
use the prorata basis i wrote a few post ago (post 68)...i this way everybody will get some ignis in function of the nxt used to bid. you will prevent this one bidder wins all attack!!!

stop the next blocks, talk to your legal advisor and modify the clause to use a prorate model!!!

you can save this Ico in a nice way!!!!do it!!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: BTCINVESTOR on August 05, 2017, 03:43:53 pm
I hoped to buy some ignis in this round of course but I am glad to see that there is so much support for the Ardor/Ignis ecosystem. Riker you guys deserve to finally have some serious support for this movement. You are obviously doing the best you can do and there will always be surprises. This does not diminish my excitement of what you are doing.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ron on August 05, 2017, 03:44:11 pm
Use the forging algorithm for distribution. every node will get forging power x50 or x100 and receives ignis according to their NXT-stake. With every ignis you forge you have to pay 1 NXT and high forging power will decrease quicker. So ignis will be distributed evenly to users of the platform (forgers).

But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.

I don't think we have the same understanding of the word "crowd".
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: bpie on August 05, 2017, 03:47:18 pm
So let's recap the past few months.  First you announce that all NXT holders will receive IGNIS at the snapshot, and that Ardor would be release at the same time.  Not surprisingly, NXT's price goes up.  Fast forward a bit, and now IGNIS will have an ICO, but don't worry, NXT holders will still receive their IGNIS.  No other details regarding the ICO are release, and NXT continues with steady growth.  Fast forward a bit more, turns out the ICO will offer IGNIS at a discount far superior than the conversion rate of the snapshot.  Skipping whatever line of bullshit you want to throw out, everyone knows that NXT will retain almost no value post Ardor.  Those who purchased NXT for the sole reason of owning IGNIS are now at a net loss on their investment.

But don't worry guys, everyone will get a chance to buy at the discounted price.  How?  Give us a few weeks to think about it.  Ok, we got it.  We are going to sell in small lots at random intervals during designated periods.  What's that, you think someone might buy all 5mil preventing anyone else from participating.  Hmm, could happen I guess.  Let's see, we really don't want to think anymore.

Let's be real for a second, your dragged out broken up blocks ICO format was never about giving everyone a chance.  It's a way to maintain an artificially high price as you accumulate NXT via the ICO.  Blocks are slowly rolled out, you guys have a chance to dump, and the price rebounds by the next block.  Rinse, repeat.

Now we get the aww schucks guys we didn't expect it, but it's good news because it proves big money believes in us.  How would we know this would happen?  Did you see how much we raised last time?

Hey guys, you work in the industry, I'm sure you are aware than ANY ICO sells out in minutes.  If AIDSCOIN had a decent website, they would sell out just as fast.  One guy buying it all doesn't reflect any faith in the team or the product, it's the nature of the market.  If not him, then someone else.  If not IGNIS, then another coin.  It doesn't matter because 9x out of 10, an ICO purchase can be dumped at a profit.

You celebrated on twitter when you knew full well how your first block was sold.  You told everyone to fuck off in slack, and we didn't hear a peep.  Now, as we head towards the second block, NXT's price is crashing.  Well bring on the bullshit damage control.  Are you going to do anything?  No.  Unless you count feigning surprise as something.

 "Who could of saw this coming guys?  What's that, did you say everyone?  Well not everyone.  Certainly not us.  We used our sale from however many years ago as our foundation for expectations.  Sure the market cap has increased by over 100x since then, but it should work the same right?"

Just own your bullshit.  Admit that it was time you got yours.  You've worked on a nothing budget for years and watched shit projects ride golden jets to the moon.  Your not dumb, I know because I wasted too much time following interviews and reading this forum.  You knew how this would play out, you just didn't plan on people being as pissed as they are.

 Your tech is solid if not top of the line.  Your business acumen, it's complete shit.  If you don't use your new resources to fix the latter, the former will never matter.

Welcome to the forum, so you are arguing that we should have designed the crowd sale that sells in 15 minutes to 3 whales, instead of working for month to design a blockchain based ICO using our own technology?
We are selling an operational token of a blockchain product which is far superior to anything else, not a speculative investment. The guy who bought the first round understood how the token operates and took advantage of this, we cannot prevent this, he didn't cheat, he used the platform is a sophisticated way and by doing so proved that he believes in the future of the project and just use it for speculation.

Yeah, that's my argument.  That you should have used the one shittier system than the one you actually used.  If your team isn't creative enough to work out a creative solution, why should anyone believe in your products moving forward.  As far as the guy "believing in you", as I discuss above, it has nothing to do with faith.  Any coin, any team, same setup, would have the same result.

I'm not arguing he cheated.  I'm not arguing that you should do anything at this point.  My point is these straw man arguments, and lame excuses are downright insulting.  What does this say about your ability to secure anything?  Months to prepare, and a guy who can barely write legibly comes up with a "sophisticated system" that nullified all of your preventative measures.

"Welcome to the forum."  I get it, low post count, my opinion doesn't count.  Maybe I'm some FUD troll who doesn't actually care.  The reality is, you are on the verge of having a billion dollar business, and you are running it like pawn shop in the ghetto.

You guys should stop digging.  Eventually the hole is going to be too deep. 
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: BoatRocker on August 05, 2017, 03:49:35 pm
Jelurida publicly promised a crowdsale.
"How to participate in the IGNIS crowdsale"
That promise was false, since only one entity bought all the tokens. It is very likely that subsequent rounds will proceed in the same way.

Jelurida stated anyone could participate by downloading the wallet.
"There is an IGNIS Token Sale link displayed in the client which takes you to a page where you can buy JLRDA tokens"
That statement was false, since the NXT wallet and token sale link did not permit anyone to buy any JLRDA tokens.

Jelurida stated participation could occur via the public NXT node.
"You can also participate in the crowdsale using the Jelurida hosted public Nxt node which gives you direct access to the Nxt blockchain"
That statement was false.

These false statements are actionable in civil court. If Jelurida doesn't come up with a plan to give everyone the opportunity to buy JLRDA tokens with NXT, just as the promised, a lawsuit will likely follow.

If the ICO is not fixed, you risk having someone file a complaint with the SEC on Monday morning of securities fraud. You have a couple of opinions that tokens are not securities. Would you like to test that theory by means of an SEC investigation?

Many people purchased NXT based on the above false statements. They were deceived into buying NXT. Action in criminal court is possible, even if tokens are not securities. We were deceived into buying NXT based on the offer of a crowdsale, which did not occur. That's interstate commerce fraud.

Fix this, or there will be legal action.

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 05, 2017, 03:52:10 pm
another option is to assign ignis in a prorate basis

example: next batch will be 18:45-19:45 for 5 millions ignis

let people bet:
person a bids 5000000 nxt
person b bids 10000000 nxt
person c bids 200000 nxt

total nxt bid=15200000 nxt

so
a bid=33% of all nxt-->recieve 33% ignis
b bid=66% of all nxt-->receive 66% ignis
c bid=1% of all nxt-->receive 1% ignis

a will buy 33% ignis =0.33×5000000=1650000 ignis= 660000 nxt spent

b will buy 66% ignis=0.66x5000000=3300000 ignis=
1320000 nxt spent

c will buy 1% ignis=0.01x5000000=50000 ignis=20000 nxt spent

and you return the difference between nxt bid and nxt spent to each bettor

in this way everybody will have some ignis in function of the prorate nxt used to bid
Yes, that's where I was heading with my #58. It is a different kind of mechanism than the usual buy/sell exchange, but probably more appropriate for an ICO.

It looks like the devs were trying to avoid give advantage to whales, so tried to make it random. That doesn't really work because true randomness is hard to find. Someone can always get an advantage if they work hard enough. I think it's better to be upfront and accept that whales will get more, as long as everyone can get some, and in proportion to what they are willing to spend.

This isn't just about this ICO. We need a good solution if Nxt/Ardor is to be used for ICOs in future.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: silenthill27 on August 05, 2017, 03:53:47 pm
@everyone: Please stay on topic, this is about the progress of the IGNIS ICO, not about other platforms or sales, or about how Jelurida planned their roadmap. Also please stay civil. Thank you.

then maybe commander riker shouldnt have shit on iota out of the blue
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 03:56:10 pm
heh... finnaly I understend. if its true transaction 17168252745990068558 (message in block)  then we can relax minimum for 4 rounds more
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 04:01:14 pm
another option is to assign ignis in a prorate basis

example: next batch will be 18:45-19:45 for 5 millions ignis

let people bet:
person a bids 5000000 nxt
person b bids 10000000 nxt
person c bids 200000 nxt

total nxt bid=15200000 nxt

so
a bid=33% of all nxt-->recieve 33% ignis
b bid=66% of all nxt-->receive 66% ignis
c bid=1% of all nxt-->receive 1% ignis

a will buy 33% ignis =0.33×5000000=1650000 ignis= 660000 nxt spent

b will buy 66% ignis=0.66x5000000=3300000 ignis=
1320000 nxt spent

c will buy 1% ignis=0.01x5000000=50000 ignis=20000 nxt spent

and you return the difference between nxt bid and nxt spent to each bettor

in this way everybody will have some ignis in function of the prorate nxt used to bid
Yes, that's where I was heading with my #58. It is a different kind of mechanism than the usual buy/sell exchange, but probably more appropriate for an ICO.

It looks like the devs were trying to avoid give advantage to whales, so tried to make it random. That doesn't really work because true randomness is hard to find. Someone can always get an advantage if they work hard enough. I think it's better to be upfront and accept that whales will get more, as long as everyone can get some, and in proportion to what they are willing to spend.

This isn't just about this ICO. We need a good solution if Nxt/Ardor is to be used for ICOs in future.

i think it would be great if they stop next auction for a few hours...adopt this prorate basis or whatever is better (to allow bots and humans to participate with equal opportunities) and furthermore... use this incident like a possitive advertisement to promote this ecosystem. for instance: due to the high demand (one person wanted all) and that there are a lot of people wanting to participate, we believe it is better to modify how the ico works in order to allow everybody gets ignis

use this problem as a good thing to exploit ang get a lot of free and good advertisement!!!

you can do it NOW!!!stop the following auction, talk to your legal advisor and restart the ICO asap with a different model (prorate for example) where everybody is happy!! Save this ICO as a champion. Show the crypto world what we deserve!!!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 04:01:36 pm
I would just say thank you to Jelurida and their team for making it evident they will not do something about this mess, instead of faking it and keeping us on hold.

CLOSED DATE                    MARKET       TYPE         UNITS
08/05/2017 07:40:01 PM    BTC-ARDR    Limit Sell   5346
08/05/2017 07:34:22 PM    BTC-NXT      Limit Sell   11100

Sold Ardr at loss and NXT hedged it, luckily I went long during the dip.
Prices are dropping, I advise you to do so.
You can buy later at the floor and probably the price drop will hedge the ICO bonus we missed.

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 04:02:33 pm
@everyone: Please stay on topic, this is about the progress of the IGNIS ICO, not about other platforms or sales, or about how Jelurida planned their roadmap. Also please stay civil. Thank you.
then maybe commander riker shouldnt have shit on iota out of the blue

Someone else brought up IOTA same as they could have brought up ETH, STRAT, WAVES, HEAT or any other platform related to Nxt one way or another. I agree we all should avoid following offtopic shoots, take a deep breath and go back to be constructive as we normally are. Stress is a bad counselor.
 
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: danp123 on August 05, 2017, 04:27:15 pm
I would just say thank you to Jelurida and their team for making it evident they will not do something about this mess, instead of faking it and keeping us on hold.

CLOSED DATE                    MARKET       TYPE         UNITS
08/05/2017 07:40:01 PM    BTC-ARDR    Limit Sell   5346
08/05/2017 07:34:22 PM    BTC-NXT      Limit Sell   11100

Sold Ardr at loss and NXT hedged it, luckily I went long during the dip.
Prices are dropping, I advise you to do so.
You can buy later at the floor and probably the price drop will hedge the ICO bonus we missed.

Sorry to say, but this is the best thing to do, although I'm keeping ARDR, that will still have value.  Could also just move your NXT to ARDR as well.  I see the devs wanted to keep the price of NXT up by doing this so they could keep selling it.  Who knows maybe it will work in the long run, but NXT at the snapshot will eventually adjust to the price of IGNIS /2 .  I'd rather not take the risk of holding it that long.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 04:35:27 pm
Sorry to say, but this is the best thing to do, although I'm keeping ARDR, that will still have value.  Could also just move your NXT to ARDR as well.  I see the devs wanted to keep the price of NXT up by doing this so they could keep selling it.  Who knows maybe it will work in the long run, but NXT at the snapshot will eventually adjust to the price of IGNIS /2 .  I'd rather not take the risk of holding it that long.

Assuming that the value of IGNIS will be determined by what a tech-savvy whale does in the first ICO round/s sounds like a big assumption to me.

In any case, please take trading advice and hypotheses about price to another topic, like Price speculation. Thank you.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rgmartin0727 on August 05, 2017, 04:54:00 pm
The more I think about this, the more I end up at the conclusion that what happened was fair. I didn't see anything in the ICO whitepaper that mentioned an attempt to split up the currency amongst the users. And, although I'm new to blockchain, it seems one of the fundamental principles guiding the philosophy is a laissez-faire / libertarian mindset -- which is exactly what happened. The market was free and someone exercised their freedom to purchase all of the tokens. Which someone pointed out was around $300k. He or she is risking their own capital and could lose out big.

I could see there being a macro-economic argument that societal features perpetuate wealth (blah, blah, blah), so the market isn't truly free, but the only way to correct such a thing would be redistribution. And again, it seems that one of the fundamental principles of blockchain is free-market principles.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: WEI-CHUN-CHEN on August 05, 2017, 04:58:17 pm
Why not made in time to send the order by the system after the lottery in the distribution of IGNIS not in the anti-NXT???????????? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
The failure of the activities we are very sad
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: GoEthereum on August 05, 2017, 05:04:14 pm
This ICO will have Jelurida laughing all the way to the bank, who cares about reputation? ;D 8)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Sebastien256 on August 05, 2017, 05:05:17 pm
The more I think about this, the more I end up at the conclusion that what happened was fair. I didn't see anything in the ICO whitepaper that mentioned an attempt to split up the currency amongst the users. And, although I'm new to blockchain, it seems one of the fundamental principles guiding the philosophy is a laissez-faire / libertarian mindset -- which is exactly what happened. The market was free and someone exercised their freedom to purchase all of the tokens. Which someone pointed out was around $300k. He or she is risking their own capital and could lose out big.

I could see there being a macro-economic argument that societal features perpetuate wealth (blah, blah, blah), so the market isn't truly free, but the only way to correct such a thing would be redistribution. And again, it seems that one of the fundamental principles of blockchain is free-market principles.

He risk 300k$ now, but on a initial investment of ~200$ from 2013. The guys is already plenty rich, and is greedy and want more. Poor soul this investors has. He could have bought less and give some opportunity to others.

The main point i think is that many people get in front of the computer for the ico and and they simply have no chance of participating at this point. This is not good for building up community. He could buy all it's 20M JLRDA token, but could easily done this in more than 4 batches and leave some for others.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ivanzhou on August 05, 2017, 05:14:26 pm
Dear NXT community members, we have analysed the first buy in the IGNIS ICO earlier and we want to report our findings to you.
We believe he had a bot which listens to unconfirmed transactions, so when the buyer saw our approval transaction to our phased offer he quickly approved his phased buy either manually or automatically.
Since the matching of the offer and the buy occurred in the same block, users using the wallet UI did not even get a chance to see the offer.
There is no way we can block accounts from doing this. Buyers can distribute their funds to other accounts, or already have them set up, as well as other users who have already planned this and don't have their accounts known.
We understand that this is upsetting to users, and it is one reason why we have multiple rounds; we cannot control this in a decentralized ecosystem. The IGNIS sold this morning represents 1% of all the funds available in the Token Sale.
Until August 10th UTC, there will be 11 more opportunities to buy at the price of 0.4 NXT and starting from August 26th, 80 M will be available, though at the price of 0.55 NXT.
After these rounds are completed, still less than a third of all IGNIS to be sold will have been sold.

I'm here to answer any questions, but please keep on topic and try to stick to the facts.

The way you explained it makes other potential buyers even more depressed and confused and angry.  Not everyone is a techie and not everyone should have to understand the tech behind NXT wallet in order to participate in the ICO.

The dev team clearly never had the smaller investors in mind when they planned the ICO.  If you had limited the purchase of tokens to no more than 250k (or less), this whale talk would not even be the center of the conversation.  I am considering selling all my NXT and ARDR if I continue to be kept out of the ICO due to whale attacks.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: maurover on August 05, 2017, 05:18:18 pm
The sad truth is that in a truly decentralized system such as this, there is really nothing we can do (as minnows and dolphins) to stop it. I suspect that none of us will be able to get in at .4 per simply because we are massively outgunned.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 05:19:26 pm
This ICO will have Jelurida laughing all the way to the bank, who cares about reputation? ;D 8)

Trolling and fudding is not welcome, consider yourself warned.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: aafrey on August 05, 2017, 05:22:41 pm
I have no problem being beaten to the buy button by a whale. Nothing can be done about that if someone is willing to outspend you. What seems to be the main gripe is that we were all beaten by a bot, and that's the part that stings.

That does not change my position of being bullish on the new Ardor platform. Ignis is just one of many child chains that will be added.

Second, Jelurida has already provided a significant amount of the tokens for free providing users hold their NXT till the snapshot, which already makes the distribution better than most ICO offerings.

But understanding that I might not be able to realistically participate during these public offerings, I'm preferring to bet on the tech (Ardor), not any particular ICO.

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: starik69 on August 05, 2017, 05:35:13 pm
This ICO has been planned for several month. One whale has bought 1% of the tokens. Should we scrap the whole thing?
- yes, you should.
No, you should continue as planned! 8)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: lurker10 on August 05, 2017, 05:45:33 pm
The more I think about this, the more I end up at the conclusion that what happened was fair. I didn't see anything in the ICO whitepaper that mentioned an attempt to split up the currency amongst the users. And, although I'm new to blockchain, it seems one of the fundamental principles guiding the philosophy is a laissez-faire / libertarian mindset -- which is exactly what happened. The market was free and someone exercised their freedom to purchase all of the tokens. Which someone pointed out was around $300k. He or she is risking their own capital and could lose out big.

I could see there being a macro-economic argument that societal features perpetuate wealth (blah, blah, blah), so the market isn't truly free, but the only way to correct such a thing would be redistribution. And again, it seems that one of the fundamental principles of blockchain is free-market principles.

Although you're new to blockchain, you get the essence and philosophy behind decentralized cryptocurrency. Many people, even some "veteran" members, do not. Too many entitlement programs in the world today that discourage competition.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: neofelis on August 05, 2017, 06:09:29 pm
I agree that the fellow who swooped in and bought up all the JLRDA before the rest of us schmucks even knew what was happening did not cheat.  He just used every advantage to buy cheap tokens.  I don't think it was very nice but it sure showed the rest of us non-techies the flaw in the system. (In my own defense, I predicted this weeks ago)  I can only see this happening again and we will see in about an hour.

Frankly, I'd like to see Team Jelurida stop the ICO and just keep the tokens for themselves.  At least they are smart enough to not dump them on the market and tank the price.  The rest of us will get our 0.5:1 IGNIS at launch.  I think that is better than watching some pure speculator who doesn't care about crypto (except for making himself money) do this again.



Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gh on August 05, 2017, 06:15:18 pm
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Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Sebastien256 on August 05, 2017, 06:18:12 pm
Next round of 5m IGNIS will be put out in 30-60 minutes. Exciting to see what will happen. If NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7 is clever, he will not take the entire 5m this time, but leave some for others too.

This is what I hope that he will do. Otherwise I would agree with you about his cleverness.  :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Neomadra on August 05, 2017, 06:18:27 pm
I got my bot ready now. At least I hope so. Not sure if it will work but I did some testing using my own test currency.
btw.: some idiot bought 5 fake tokens from me, lol. :D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: joelquest on August 05, 2017, 06:31:22 pm
Great, so now everyone has a bot. 

So, since things didn't go as planned last time... can anyone say exactly how we'll all know there's JLRDA for sale?   Does the IGNIS TOKEN SALE page populate the quantity automatically the moment the sale becomes active or does this require some kind of refresh?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 06:45:03 pm
I got my bot ready now. At least I hope so. Not sure if it will work but I did some testing using my own test currency.
btw.: some idiot bought 5 fake tokens from me, lol. :D

lets botfight begin! )))
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Damelon on August 05, 2017, 06:50:08 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/PCPGFGlS4K3f2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ivanzhou on August 05, 2017, 06:51:20 pm
If bots are what ppl have to use to get some cheap coins, then this is not a real ICO.  Plus the dev team doesn't explain exactly the mechanism of this ICO down to how to purchase the token and why the Rate area is always (almost) grayed out during the 30 mins of each time slot.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rgmartin0727 on August 05, 2017, 06:53:51 pm
Great, so now everyone has a bot. 

So, since things didn't go as planned last time... can anyone say exactly how we'll all know there's JLRDA for sale?   Does the IGNIS TOKEN SALE page populate the quantity automatically the moment the sale becomes active or does this require some kind of refresh?

So far in this round, it doesn't look like we'll have to worry about it... Still no tokens populating. I'm guessing NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7 is probably purchasing another 5 million IGNIS. Looks like the account just dipped by a lot of NXT.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: goodsignal on August 05, 2017, 06:58:53 pm

i think it would be great if they stop next auction for a few hours...adopt this prorate basis or whatever is better (to allow bots and humans to participate with equal opportunities) and furthermore... use this incident like a possitive advertisement to promote this ecosystem. for instance: due to the high demand (one person wanted all) and that there are a lot of people wanting to participate, we believe it is better to modify how the ico works in order to allow everybody gets ignis

use this problem as a good thing to exploit ang get a lot of free and good advertisement!!!

you can do it NOW!!!stop the following auction, talk to your legal advisor and restart the ICO asap with a different model (prorate for example) where everybody is happy!! Save this ICO as a champion. Show the crypto world what we deserve!!!
This is a brilliant perspective. Pay attention.


Open a new forum topic to explore with the community about finding an adjustment to the ICO model that embodies the following major factors:
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: joelquest on August 05, 2017, 06:59:02 pm
Well. this is total bullshit. 

Absolute and total bullshit.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 06:59:38 pm
congratulations!!! community f...ed
bot 2-0 community
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ivanzhou on August 05, 2017, 07:00:09 pm
Swear to god, this is the most frustrating ICO ever.  I've been in 4 so far and this is by far the worst planned.  Same person with same bot bought the same amount in the same manner leaving even more people frustrated and angry.  My eyes were glued to the screen with fingers ready yet it didn't help a bit.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rgmartin0727 on August 05, 2017, 07:00:18 pm
Yep. NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7 just purchased all 5m again. Although this time he or she (or since it's a bot, it) did it in two transactions. One for 4,900,000 and another for 100,000... Maybe to seem less conspicuous this time... Lol...


Also, this account just reupped NXT back to over 2 million, so it would appear their intention is to purchase 5m in the next round as well.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: neofelis on August 05, 2017, 07:01:39 pm
Same guy.  Why not just send them directly from Jelurida to NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7?  That way I could do something productive with my time rather than watch this fiasco.






Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gh on August 05, 2017, 07:02:41 pm
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Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: curve25519 on August 05, 2017, 07:02:51 pm
CONGRATULATIONS Riker! Another very successful ICO sale!!!
Guess you must be busy tweeting it out!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ivanzhou on August 05, 2017, 07:03:06 pm
Yep. NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7 just purchased all 5m again. Although this time he or she (or since it's a bot, it) did it in two transactions. One for 4,900,000 and another for 100,000... Maybe to seem less conspicuous this time... Lol

The 100k was even a bigger middle finger to the rest of us, as if to say, see, I left some room for you to buy a tiny amount yet you all still screwed it up....can't blamed me if you fingers were slow
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: S3MKi on August 05, 2017, 07:03:18 pm
And oscars second batch gooo toooo..... Greate job devs
(http://clip2net.com/clip/m147685/95032-clip-22kb.png?nocache=1)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Neomadra on August 05, 2017, 07:04:31 pm
Unfortunately my bot did not work. Wasted 5 hours or so. :D
My bot did not even saw the transaction. I thought already his bot is more sophisticated.
Well I don't want to waste more time on this. I'll go all in Ardor. :P
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: bpie on August 05, 2017, 07:05:47 pm
Time to go on twitter and brag about how much faith this guy has in your dream team of developers!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: max on August 05, 2017, 07:05:55 pm
As a very early holder of NXT I have to say that this ICO is drastically degrading my trust and sympathy for NXT.

I would strongly advise Jelurida to rethink their stance and temporarily halt this ICO, then re-open it with some modifications.
Otherwise PR, reputation and exchange rates for the whole project will likely be a disaster.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cypresswish on August 05, 2017, 07:08:10 pm
Looks like just another cheap scam ICO. I'm 99% sure devs are doing that themselves. Someone from NXT representatives/PR managers even confirmed on twitter that they are going to manipulate the market price of NXT with their premined token to keep the ICO hyped. Good job guys.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Coradan on August 05, 2017, 07:09:02 pm
There is a BUG in the ICO.  We need a FIX...   :)

Regards,
Coradan
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nikhsub1 on August 05, 2017, 07:09:25 pm
Insults removed by staff.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 07:09:38 pm

i think it would be great if they stop next auction for a few hours...adopt this prorate basis or whatever is better (to allow bots and humans to participate with equal opportunities) and furthermore... use this incident like a possitive advertisement to promote this ecosystem. for instance: due to the high demand (one person wanted all) and that there are a lot of people wanting to participate, we believe it is better to modify how the ico works in order to allow everybody gets ignis

use this problem as a good thing to exploit ang get a lot of free and good advertisement!!!

you can do it NOW!!!stop the following auction, talk to your legal advisor and restart the ICO asap with a different model (prorate for example) where everybody is happy!! Save this ICO as a champion. Show the crypto world what we deserve!!!
This is a brilliant perspective. Pay attention.

  • Firstly, I do think that whatever happened with this first round was fair, so to speak. Not fair to the community so much the way it worked out, but no actual cheating was involved, nor foul play on the part of the developers. We should all recognize that.
  • What is super important though is keeping the PR good and the community interest in this platform. PR is huge and it's hard to tell if the developers understand that. They should hire a good PR team immediately!!!
  • Acknowledging that the current ICO model is likely going to be crappy for the majority is probably important. Committing to make an adjustment that both ensures that the organization meets their financial goals and returning faith to the community should be a priority at this point. Part of what Ardor is about is learning from the mistakes in crypto and creating a better solution. Here's just another opportunity to come up with a solution.
  • Some smart modification to the ICO model would do wonders for the team and the community right now. Forget that months have been invested in the current ICO model. There is certainly a win-win opportunity here. There have been a couple suggestions so far in these forums that seem viable. There are probably many cool options to implement that can fit in with all the work you've already put in. Restructuring the ICO slightly to benefit the community is okay.
  • Developers, please be smart about this. Try not to underestimate the power of PR.

Open a new forum topic to explore with the community about finding an adjustment to the ICO model that embodies the following major factors:
  • Easiest to implement
  • Maximizes chance of completing each phase of crowdsale
  • Gets the most people possible engaged and excited about the platform
maybe we have to open a request on change.org to address this issue

talking seriously, if we go that way ardor/ignis could change the cryptoworld...otherwise PR is really difficult to overcome even though buying with a bot is fair and legal.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 07:09:50 pm
Yep. NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7 just purchased all 5m again. Although this time he or she (or since it's a bot, it) did it in two transactions. One for 4,900,000 and another for 100,000... Maybe to seem less conspicuous this time... Lol

The 100k was even a bigger middle finger to the rest of us, as if to say, see, I left some room for you to buy a tiny amount yet you all still screwed it up....can't blamed me if you fingers were slow

jap, bot gives to us 0.00001 second chance ;D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: freedom on August 05, 2017, 07:13:11 pm
I think the general consensus now is that this was a scam to boost Nxt token sales. Think about how stupid this ICO is.
We all have to take time off work waiting around for a secret time frame in a 30 minute window.
We don't even get a chance to participate in this ICO because supposedly a bot is buying up all the tokens before it starts.

If this were a real ICO we would actually have a chance to purchase the tokens. We are all waiting around like idiots to get nothing.
They should at least just open up all 60 million at once, or even more.
Look at the facts, there is 1 billion Nxt tokens and less than that amount in IGNIS for the ICO. We are never going to get to purchase these tokens.
Nxt tokens are getting dumped now because the community is not even trying to deal with this bullshit anymore.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: GoEthereum on August 05, 2017, 07:14:34 pm
Quote
And the whale is unloading even more for the next rounds. Just look at the frenzy of "buy currency" phased transactions in his transaction history lol. His NXT balance is now down to 500k+.

Everything will be wiped out by Whale and the ICO is screwed.

Thanks for your insight. Predictions about the future are always difficult.

Told ya
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: T-7- on August 05, 2017, 07:16:19 pm
With lack of marketing efforts throughout NXT's history, I'm afraid this ICO will be the final nail in the coffin of the NXT. I liked the initial 1:1 NXT ARDR and 1:0,5 NXT-IGNIS (fNXT) distribution. It had all the elements of building trust and rewarding holders (especially the ARDOR distribution). This ICO has made the IGNIS a very very ill newborn, and I think it just lost the "first coin" advantage. I also think NXT as an investment has too much downward potential right now, without benefit of holding it until the 0,5 snapshot. I'm very dissapointed to say the least. Still believe Ardor as an ecosystem has great potential, but I will be out of NXT as it serves no purpose anymore.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Naudark on August 05, 2017, 07:17:57 pm
Hi Guys,

it looks like the entry form to buy the JLRDA token does not work on my computer. Indeed the Rate text field and the Total text field are grayed. Well, I am pretty sure that this is because of the antivirus of my computer. Or the firewall perhaps. But maybe I don't know how to use it...

Anyway, may I send money in cash through Western Union to Jelurida and you send me back the coins on an USB stick please?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 07:19:29 pm
Looks like just another cheap scam ICO. I'm 99% sure devs are doing that themselves. Someone from NXT representatives/PR managers even confirmed on twitter that they are going to manipulate the market price of NXT with their premined token to keep the ICO hyped. Good job guys.

If you can quote who among "NXT representatives/PR managers even confirmed on twitter that they are going to manipulate the market price of NXT" and you can stop the fudding/trolling right after your first post, we'll be glad to welcome you to the community.

And by the way, Nxt is pure proof of stake and tokens issued in Nxt, same as tokens issued in Ethereum or other platforms are not mined, so "premined" does not apply here.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: neofelis on August 05, 2017, 07:20:01 pm
Hi Guys,

it looks like the entry form to buy the JLRDA token does not work on my computer. Indeed the Rate text field and the Total text field are grayed. Well, I am pretty sure that this is because of the antivirus of my computer. Or the firewall perhaps. But maybe I don't know how to use it...

Anyway, may I send money in cash through Western Union to Jelurida and you send me back the coins on an USB stick please?

Thanks in advance

Yeah, same for me.  Just stick them in the regular mail for me.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: bpie on August 05, 2017, 07:21:31 pm
Hi Guys,

it looks like the entry form to buy the JLRDA token does not work on my computer. Indeed the Rate text field and the Total text field are grayed. Well, I am pretty sure that this is because of the antivirus of my computer. Or the firewall perhaps. But maybe I don't know how to use it...

Anyway, may I send money in cash through Western Union to Jelurida and you send me back the coins on an USB stick please?

Thanks in advance

They are figuring out how to get in touch with you as I type.  They are fairly new with computers, so it may take some time.  They used dial up 15 years ago, so they assume that is how it still works.  As soon as they find their AOL disk, they will ask jeeves how to do that thing you asked.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gh on August 05, 2017, 07:22:21 pm
.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: zentrepreneur on August 05, 2017, 07:25:30 pm
Hey guys,

Just registered on the forum to tell you this. Like all of you, I wanted to invest some NXT in IGNIS today. I just read here the real reason why we couldn't: nxter. org/ignis-ico-report-1/

So there's this person that wants to buy 19,925,363 IGNIS. You can read about the reasons behind this in the article. I understand them, can relate to them and I'm actually OK with the situation.

This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 07:29:06 pm
When this whale will be done, someone else would have their bots running.
If you are not a developer with enough time and resources to write your own bot, just sell. NXT and ARDR price is already dropping, let them sink and enjoy the whales make some big losses.
You will be able to re-buy IF and only WHEN you will want.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 07:29:40 pm
Hey guys,

Just registered on the forum to tell you this. Like all of you, I wanted to invest some NXT in IGNIS today. I just read here the real reason why we couldn't: nxter. org/ignis-ico-report-1/

So there's this person that wants to buy 19,925,363 IGNIS. You can read about the reasons behind this in the article. I understand them, can relate to them and I'm actually OK with the situation.

This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.

Thank you for bringing some cool head to the discussion and welcome to the forums.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: bpie on August 05, 2017, 07:29:52 pm
Hey guys,

Just registered on the forum to tell you this. Like all of you, I wanted to invest some NXT in IGNIS today. I just read here the real reason why we couldn't: nxter. org/ignis-ico-report-1/

So there's this person that wants to buy 19,925,363 IGNIS. You can read about the reasons behind this in the article. I understand them, can relate to them and I'm actually OK with the situation.

This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.

Seriously?  The guy is screwing over the community he praised because he made 1.7 million instead of 2.8million.  I mean, he figured out how to game the system, so more power to him.  Pretending it is anything other than greed is bullshit though.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cypresswish on August 05, 2017, 07:34:44 pm
del
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Virus on August 05, 2017, 07:36:10 pm
This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.
Cannot count on that. Person could not stick to their word or someone else with a bot could be right behind them. It's a flawed ICO model, plain and simple.

As much as I believe in NXT and Ardor, the lack of foresight with these phased transactions is not encouraging.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but just letting this continue in its current state is not it.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: zentrepreneur on August 05, 2017, 07:36:49 pm
Hey guys,

Just registered on the forum to tell you this. Like all of you, I wanted to invest some NXT in IGNIS today. I just read here the real reason why we couldn't: nxter. org/ignis-ico-report-1/

So there's this person that wants to buy 19,925,363 IGNIS. You can read about the reasons behind this in the article. I understand them, can relate to them and I'm actually OK with the situation.

This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.

Seriously?  The guy is screwing over the community he praised because he made 1.7 million instead of 2.8million.  I mean, he figured out how to game the system, so more power to him.  Pretending it is anything other than greed is bullshit though.

I agree there's a lot of greed in crypto. It may well be the case with this person (you can also maybe think about yourself, too, as you're trying to get IGNIS at a discount rather than wait for the snapshot). He/she could have bought into any other ICO, though, but chose this one particularly.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 07:37:54 pm
Looks like just another cheap scam ICO. I'm 99% sure devs are doing that themselves. Someone from NXT representatives/PR managers even confirmed on twitter that they are going to manipulate the market price of NXT with their premined token to keep the ICO hyped. Good job guys.

If you can quote who among "NXT representatives/PR managers even confirmed on twitter that they are going to manipulate the market price of NXT" and you can stop the fudding/trolling right after your first post, we'll be glad to welcome you to the community.

And by the way, Nxt is pure proof of stake and tokens issued in Nxt, same as tokens issued in Ethereum or other platforms are not mined, so "premined" does not apply here.
You want a quote? Here is it. Now it is deleted from that person's twitter. You are just another scammers and the right place for you is the jail.
(https://prnt.sc/g4spui)

I work administering and moderating this forum, which mostly implies helping people solve problems and making sure the rules are respected, so bye.

And by the way, I don't think the screenshot you shared has anything to do with Nxt representatives or PR managers.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: mister on August 05, 2017, 07:39:54 pm
Hey guys,

Just registered on the forum to tell you this. Like all of you, I wanted to invest some NXT in IGNIS today. I just read here the real reason why we couldn't: nxter. org/ignis-ico-report-1/

So there's this person that wants to buy 19,925,363 IGNIS. You can read about the reasons behind this in the article. I understand them, can relate to them and I'm actually OK with the situation.

This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.

Seriously?  The guy is screwing over the community he praised because he made 1.7 million instead of 2.8million.  I mean, he figured out how to game the system, so more power to him.  Pretending it is anything other than greed is bullshit though.

Poor guy, I almost cried because of their lost. Too sad
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 05, 2017, 07:40:18 pm
obviously this is not the best way for the guy with the bot to get 19 million...but it will be for us if price drops a lot :))

btw, i keep on thinking that the prorate basis ICO and pr management of this situation is the best way to go...

read to previous post in order to know about it
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: bpie on August 05, 2017, 07:41:25 pm
Hey guys,

Just registered on the forum to tell you this. Like all of you, I wanted to invest some NXT in IGNIS today. I just read here the real reason why we couldn't: nxter. org/ignis-ico-report-1/

So there's this person that wants to buy 19,925,363 IGNIS. You can read about the reasons behind this in the article. I understand them, can relate to them and I'm actually OK with the situation.

This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.

Seriously?  The guy is screwing over the community he praised because he made 1.7 million instead of 2.8million.  I mean, he figured out how to game the system, so more power to him.  Pretending it is anything other than greed is bullshit though.

I agree there's a lot of greed in crypto. It may well be the case with this person. He/she could have bought into any other ICO, though, but chose this one particularly.

He couldn't have bought every token in any ICO.  This ICO presented a situation where he could be the sole owner of the discount offer.  This has nothing to do with the product, but the broken misguided system.  Have you ever seen an ICO where one person could buy 1/5 of the offering at 75% discount from every other purchaser?  He just loves this team though.  What a guy.  Dream team!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: BoatRocker on August 05, 2017, 07:49:18 pm
Second time for buying Ignis tokens and the same account got all the available tokens. So they now have 10 million JLRDA tokens, at the best rate.

If this continues, legal action -- civil or possibly criminal -- will be taken against Jelurida for fraud. Jelurida claimed that anyone who bought NXT could participate in a crowdsale, when only one account obtains all the tokens. Tens of millions of dollars worth of NXT were sold based on that false claim.

I want a reply from Kristina Kalcheva, the legal expert and co-founder of Jelurida.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 07:55:07 pm
Devs saying it's normal and nothing can be done. Admins banning and deleting evidence of insider jobs (I'm not saying it is, but deleting the post is not sign of transparency).

If this is the way to handle the ICO, then how do you think they will develop and manage Ardour and Ignis?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 07:57:52 pm
Admins banning and deleting evidence of insider jobs (I'm not saying it is, but deleting the post is not sign of transparency).

Stop there. If you mean me banning the cypresswish user, he modified his own post himself after I quoted him. You can see it quoted in my reply below. You can also see in his post who modified it. The only thing I've deleted were a bunch of nasty insults from a new user.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: freedom on August 05, 2017, 07:58:59 pm
I think this will be the nail in the coffin for nxt. The best thing is to get rid of your nxt tokens and not participate in this structure.
You most likely won't get any ICO tokens unless you take off work and sit here during these 30 minute windows.
And even if you do, you still don't get an opportunity to buy because of the alleged "botters".
Basically your stuck with nxt tokens that cannot be traded into ignis right now.

Most people will just dump their nxt and ignore this ico.

Hopefully Jelurida will address the situation today if they care about this community at all.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: zentrepreneur on August 05, 2017, 08:03:28 pm
This means that the day after tomorrow we'll all be able to participate in the ICO.
Cannot count on that. Person could not stick to their word or someone else with a bot could be right behind them. It's a flawed ICO model, plain and simple.

As much as I believe in NXT and Ardor, the lack of foresight with these phased transactions is not encouraging.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but just letting this continue in its current state is not it.

I may be naive, but I actually think that account will hold exactly 19,925,363 IGNIS, not a "penny" more.

Regarding other bots... tough luck I guess. I don't even fully comprehend what the bot actually did.

But we have to understand that the ICO space is still experimenting with various methods of coin sales, none of which proved 100% ideal so far. I'm sure everybody will take their lessons from this ICO and we may even have an altered model in the weeks to come.

I believe that the only thing we should care about is for Jelurida to raise the funds needed, regardless of whether we are able to participate in the ICO or not. After all, we'll all receive our portion of IGNIS at snapshot.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 08:11:35 pm
After all, we'll all receive our portion of IGNIS at snapshot.

Agree, the best thing to do right now is to sell NXT in the exchanges and buy lower before the snapshot.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gcmartinelli on August 05, 2017, 08:20:07 pm
After all, we'll all receive our portion of IGNIS at snapshot.

Agree, the best thing to do right now is to sell NXT in the exchanges and buy lower before the snapshot.

We get it. You sold and want positive reinforcements of your decision.

Please keep price discussions on the relevant thread posts/forums...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 08:27:30 pm
Please keep price discussions on the relevant thread posts/forums...

you're right, sorry.
to stay in topic, how did the same account managed to bypass everyone again?
how is it possible that no one else have been able to get a single token, knowing that a bot could has got the job done?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: CerebralC3 on August 05, 2017, 08:29:53 pm
...
to stay in topic, how did the same account managed to bypass everyone again?
how is it possible that no one else have been able to get a single token, knowingly that a bot could have got the job done?

 So what is the answer? How was it done twice?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 05, 2017, 08:32:49 pm
Either no-one else has a working bot, or MAAC got lucky. I interpret his 4,900 bid as trying to do the right thing and let some minnows buy, but no minnows were good enough.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 08:35:27 pm
...
to stay in topic, how did the same account managed to bypass everyone again?
how is it possible that no one else have been able to get a single token, knowingly that a bot could have got the job done?

 So what is the answer? How was it done twice?

just simple - he/she was made bot who catch block with token sales and make buy transaction, before it comes to our screens
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: CerebralC3 on August 05, 2017, 08:42:10 pm
So I guess we now wait to see if he/she gets tired of buying tokens...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 08:43:57 pm
Either no-one else has a working bot, or MAAC got lucky. I interpret his 4,900 bid as trying to do the right thing and let some minnows buy, but no minnows were good enough.

other options can be:
-act performed by internals (malicious insider)
-vulnerability not yet public (hack)
-team members investing private funds (conflict of interest)

regarding the message left by the account, we should not take it for legit, any malicious threat could write that story up to cool things down and let the ICO continue
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Virus on August 05, 2017, 08:44:25 pm
Either no-one else has a working bot, or MAAC got lucky. I interpret his 4,900 bid as trying to do the right thing and let some minnows buy, but no minnows were good enough.
I'm thinking it was just a 100,000 JLRDA margin just in case someone got a transaction go through with a bot of their own.

I'm not sure what would happen if he would make a 5M JLRDA transaction and only 4.9M were available at the time. It could be an all or nothing type of situation.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ron on August 05, 2017, 08:56:58 pm
Technically if no bid orders were available this can't be classified as a sale. So legal action against this "ICO" should be the logic consequence.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rihard1980@inbox.lv on August 05, 2017, 08:57:39 pm
So I guess we now wait to see if he/she gets tired of buying tokens...

he sad that he/she have 20m of NXT. 2m per raund and if all goes with is plan, then you have chance to get coins only in 10 august sale. ofcorse if somebody dnot build other bot to buy, until this time ;D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: aafrey on August 05, 2017, 08:58:43 pm
Either no-one else has a working bot, or MAAC got lucky. I interpret his 4,900 bid as trying to do the right thing and let some minnows buy, but no minnows were good enough.

other options can be:
-act performed by internals (malicious insider)
-vulnerability not yet public (hack)
-team members investing private funds (conflict of interest)

regarding the message left by the account, we should not take it for legit, any malicious threat could write that story up to cool things down and let the ICO continue

I'm as bummed as anyone, but this type of speculation accomplishes nothing. Focus on the platform, ICO's happen everyday and there will be plenty more on Ardor in the future, but the future of Blockchain tech is not speculatory investing. It's real world businesses being built on top. Ardor will make this easier and easier. Short term, it's a bummer that we all can't make a quick buck, but I see no evidence of fowl play here. Besides, there is far more benefit in focusing on the future of the Ardor platform.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 09:04:35 pm
this type of speculation accomplishes nothing.

Not speculating, I just listed possible real world scenarios. In case of a legal action, these would be also taken into consideration.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jimboh on August 05, 2017, 09:09:28 pm
I bought NXT on 8-4 using 5 ETH and found no JLRDA tokens for sale during the 30 minute period today....are ya'l saying I won't be able to buy any?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: aztecminer on August 05, 2017, 09:13:07 pm
hello everyone. sorry i am late. I am try to trade my small amount of 5.5M NXT for ignis. however, someone is beating me and my army of bots to trade NXT. I have some ardors to trade for new ardors as well. I'm am just now learning what NXT and ARDR is. I fomoed into these because my friend said he was buying NXT and i decided to buy NXT too, while i am fomo buying alt coins this year. i am try get better deal than .5 ignis for my NXT coins. I am going to try to trade my NXT coins using my bot army after MAAT before anyone else since i am big time hodlor of NXT this year.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 09:17:15 pm
someone is beating me and my army of bots

lollerino :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ron on August 05, 2017, 09:23:49 pm
hello everyone. sorry i am late. I am try to trade my small amount of 5.5M NXT for ignis. however, someone is beating me and my army of bots to trade NXT. I have some ardors to trade for new ardors as well. I'm am just now learning what NXT and ARDR is. I fomoed into these because my friend said he was buying NXT and i decided to buy NXT too, while i am fomo buying alt coins this year. i am try get better deal than .5 ignis for my NXT coins. I am going to try to trade my NXT coins using my bot army after MAAT before anyone else since i am big time hodlor of NXT this year.

1. make a video how to set up the bots
2. sell it on NXT marketplace
3. ...
4. profit
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 09:24:37 pm
this type of speculation accomplishes nothing.

Not speculating, I just listed possible real world scenarios. In case of a legal action, these would be also taken into consideration.

Please read the Nxter piece (https://www.nxter.org/ignis-ico-report-1/) about what happened before suggesting more "real world scenarios" like a hack/vulnerability.

If you think "we should not take for legit" a message sent by the same account that executed the JLRDA purchase, maybe what's happening is that you have decided to believe whatever you want regardless of what evidence says, and that is generally a bad idea.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 09:32:15 pm
regardless of what evidence says

there is no evidence of that's not a made-up story, additionally, I said these are possible cases, never sustained one or another
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ron on August 05, 2017, 09:35:21 pm
this type of speculation accomplishes nothing.

Not speculating, I just listed possible real world scenarios. In case of a legal action, these would be also taken into consideration.

Please read the Nxter piece (https://www.nxter.org/ignis-ico-report-1/) about what happened before suggesting more "real world scenarios" like a hack/vulnerability.

If you think "we should not take for legit" a message sent by the same account that executed the JLRDA purchase, maybe what's happening is that you have decided to believe whatever you want regardless of what evidence says, and that is generally a bad idea.

Please show hard evidence other than just trust MAACs whale skills like selling at 1000sat
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 09:44:08 pm
this type of speculation accomplishes nothing.

Not speculating, I just listed possible real world scenarios. In case of a legal action, these would be also taken into consideration.

Please read the Nxter piece (https://www.nxter.org/ignis-ico-report-1/) about what happened before suggesting more "real world scenarios" like a hack/vulnerability.

If you think "we should not take for legit" a message sent by the same account that executed the JLRDA purchase, maybe what's happening is that you have decided to believe whatever you want regardless of what evidence says, and that is generally a bad idea.

Please show hard evidence other than just trust MAACs whale skills like selling at 1000sat

Sorry, is that for me? You mean I should show hard evidence about what? The message was sent from MAACs phasing account, and the behavior broadcasting lots of phased transactions in order to be able to activate one as soon as the unconfirmed transaction with the sale order was spotted agrees with what Nxter magazine says.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ron on August 05, 2017, 09:48:41 pm
this type of speculation accomplishes nothing.

Not speculating, I just listed possible real world scenarios. In case of a legal action, these would be also taken into consideration.

Please read the Nxter piece (https://www.nxter.org/ignis-ico-report-1/) about what happened before suggesting more "real world scenarios" like a hack/vulnerability.

If you think "we should not take for legit" a message sent by the same account that executed the JLRDA purchase, maybe what's happening is that you have decided to believe whatever you want regardless of what evidence says, and that is generally a bad idea.

Please show hard evidence other than just trust MAACs whale skills like selling at 1000sat

Sorry, is that for me? You mean I should show hard evidence about what? The message was sent from MAACs phasing account, and the behavior broadcasting lots of phased transactions in order to be able to activate one as soon as the unconfirmed transaction with the sale order was spotted agrees with what Nxter magazine says.

Yeah right, you trust in what he says ?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 09:53:21 pm
The message was sent from MAACs phasing account, and the behavior broadcasting lots of phased transactions in order to be able to activate one as soon as the unconfirmed transaction with the sale order was spotted agrees with what Nxter magazine says.

Sorry if I didn't make it easy to understand.
Let's say a malicious person want to cover himself up, he would create this fake identity giving a possible rationale of his actions.

Where is the evidence that what is written in that letter is, in fact,  real?

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 05, 2017, 10:02:02 pm
this type of speculation accomplishes nothing.

Not speculating, I just listed possible real world scenarios. In case of a legal action, these would be also taken into consideration.

Please read the Nxter piece (https://www.nxter.org/ignis-ico-report-1/) about what happened before suggesting more "real world scenarios" like a hack/vulnerability.

If you think "we should not take for legit" a message sent by the same account that executed the JLRDA purchase, maybe what's happening is that you have decided to believe whatever you want regardless of what evidence says, and that is generally a bad idea.

Please show hard evidence other than just trust MAACs whale skills like selling at 1000sat

Sorry, is that for me? You mean I should show hard evidence about what? The message was sent from MAACs phasing account, and the behavior broadcasting lots of phased transactions in order to be able to activate one as soon as the unconfirmed transaction with the sale order was spotted agrees with what Nxter magazine says.

Yeah right, you trust in what he says ?

I trust what I've seen in the blockchain and what people I've talked to during the day had to say about what happened. And besides this, yes, I actually trust Nxter sources and writers because they've always done a good job. What they describe agrees with other input I've gathered today and it is the most plausible explanation to what happened in the first two rounds.

https://nxtwiki.org/wiki/The_Nxt_API#Get_Unconfirmed_Transactions allows you to retrieve very easily a new transaction sent from the JLRDA account soon after it is broadcasted. Do you have a better technical description about how MAAC did this? If you do, I will be glad to change my mind.

The message was sent from MAACs phasing account, and the behavior broadcasting lots of phased transactions in order to be able to activate one as soon as the unconfirmed transaction with the sale order was spotted agrees with what Nxter magazine says.

Sorry if I didn't make it easy to understand.
Let's say a malicious person want to cover himself up, he would create this fake identity giving a possible rationale of his actions.

Where is the evidence that what is written in that letter is, in fact,  real?

The evidence is that the message was signed with the same account that executed the JLRDA purchase. So you can be certain that whoever wrote the message was the same agent, unless you go full tin foil hat and suggest there's more than one person with access to that account passphrase.

About the identity of MAAC, as it usually happens with anonymous users in crypto platforms, we know little. But there's little doubt that the message is real, isn't it?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 10:05:41 pm
the evidence is that the same account who did the transaction is the same that wrote it, there is no evidence that what he wrote was true, hence, that could be a cover-up story

furthermore, in the letter he mentioned "donations to important people in the community" what that means? sounds shady in this context
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: 50pips on August 05, 2017, 10:40:48 pm
Hi guys, even though iam a newbie in this forum, iam not a newbie in cryptos.
I for one am out now with this whole NXT-JLRDA ico, not going to waist another minute trying to buy.
I only have 10K of NXT which i will now convert back to ARDOR as i see thats more important, not even going to wait for the snapshot to get free JLRDA.
There are much better projects to concentrate on and support so iam going to just move on.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: mksmart on August 05, 2017, 10:56:17 pm
The solution is to limit the order to ( 100.000 per minute )  and do not allow repeat the purchase before one minute, please everyone support this solution
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 05, 2017, 10:58:25 pm
The solution is to limit the order to ( 100.000 per minute )  and do not allow repeat the purchase before one minute, please everyone support this solution

And how would this be implemented with the current system?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 11:14:46 pm
And how would this be implemented with the current system?

if as per your signature you are a core developer, I would like to know why you are asking this question
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 05, 2017, 11:23:50 pm
And how would this be implemented with the current system?

if as per your signature you are a core developer, I would like to know why you are asking this question

I am no longer a core developer, that is an old badge the the forum moderators control.
But, I'll explain why I asked: As far as I know, this cannot be done without a fork and added code to the system that will need testing and delay everything by a noticeable amount.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jimboh on August 05, 2017, 11:26:28 pm
I do not like these whale traders, if someone with this much influence can buy up big chunks they can also sale and crush it instantly.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 05, 2017, 11:31:47 pm
I do not like these whale traders, if someone with this much influence can buy up big chunks they can also sale and crush it instantly.

Not sure how that is different then any other ICO though  ???
Whales can always buy big chunks, that's how they are defined :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 11:33:43 pm
this cannot be done without a fork and added code to the system that will need testing and delay everything by a noticeable amount.

is it right to say that developers were aware of this limitation before the beginning of the ICO?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: JCol on August 05, 2017, 11:41:09 pm
Wow, lots of drama. I personally applaud NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7, hell of a lot smarter then staring at a monitor and then crushing keys when the green light goes off. Wish I would of thought of that actually. Everyone stating it is an unfair advantage is dead wrong, everyone has the exact same capability. He / she just thought of it sooner, and executed better then everyone else. I'll buy in when they are done.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 05, 2017, 11:47:21 pm
Wow, lots of drama. I personally applaud NXT-MAAC-AZFN-MK6A-CE4N7, hell of a lot smarter then staring at a monitor and then crushing keys when the green light goes off. Wish I would of thought of that actually. Everyone stating it is an unfair advantage is dead wrong, everyone has the exact same capability. He / she just thought of it sooner, and executed better then everyone else. I'll buy in when they are done.

you miss the point that he was the only one who got all the tokens twice. this may be possible by good skills, but considering we have also developers in the community it is very unlike that at the second period no one has been able to get in the second time, unless he had information not available to others
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: bpie on August 06, 2017, 12:37:30 am
I do not like these whale traders, if someone with this much influence can buy up big chunks they can also sale and crush it instantly.

Not sure how that is different then any other ICO though  ???
Whales can always buy big chunks, that's how they are defined :)

You are right, every ICO I have ever participated in has been bought by one trader before it hit the GUI.  Every ICO I have participated in has allowed grace periods for the seller to dump the underlining asset (causing prospective buyers to lose value with every whale purchase).  Every ICO I have ever participated in allowed one person to accumulate every share sold at a discount (again, causing prospective buyers to lose EV).  Every ICO I have ever participated in the distributors, when given time (and ToS) that allow for correcting the issue, has thrown their hands in the air and said who would'a guessed - this guys just really believes in us.  Every ICO I have ever participated in convinced people to purchase the underlying asset promising a snapshot distribution coinciding with the launch of the product itself (within a week or two is what I remember), to then later decide to sell a limited supply at 1/3 the price and force prospective buyers to hold bags for weeks on end.  Every ICO I have ever participated in, the distributor benefits from manipulating the value of the underlying asset (so manipulation incentives are the norm).

You add it up, this is just another standard ICO.  The developers and yourself are right to act incredulous to our complaints.  Heck, you guys saw it before during your last ICO.  According to Riker, they knew that this ICO would be just like that one (which it is because they are all exactly like this).
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: CryptoKitty on August 06, 2017, 01:30:46 am
Nxt's response is sad.  They admit that they were aware of this flaw, decided not to fix it because it would be too hard and are not going to do anything to correct it.  This means that ALL asset sales of any kind on the Nxt, Ardr, Ignis platform will be available to the best hackers/biggest whales only.  I get that they like their whales a/k/a dedicated nxt fans... but if the platform is going to grow it has to reach the little guy too.  Screwing the little guy out of an early buy opportunity and not disclosing this known bug before hand is a serious trust concern.  Simply limiting the buy amount in a single transaction would have at least attempted to make it fair.  I feel duped and based on the fact that this is not the first time Nxt has seriously disappointed its users, they'll never get a dime of my fake money again.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Gabriel on August 06, 2017, 02:22:26 am
Here is why I am mad about how the first 2 rounds of the ICO went:

- I wish I had not been so naïve, just trying to use the Ignis Token sale page, and actually researched better ways to purchase
- I wish I had more programming skills to have figured out a way to outsmart the MAAC account
- I wish I had bought into the original NXT ICO in 2013, instead of doing whatever else I was doing at the time
- I wish I had held that NXT throughout bad times during FOUR years so that I could invest it in IGNIS today

Since, I did none of that, I can only take my hat off to the guy who did! Well done, and thank you for believing in this project!
I would also like to congratulate the devs for running an ICO that attracted so much attention despite few marketing resources.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 06, 2017, 02:54:48 am
I cannot reply on behalf of the developers because I don't work for Jelurida, but this is not true:

This means that ALL asset sales of any kind on the Nxt, Ardr, Ignis platform will be available to the best hackers/biggest whales only.

There's been hundreds of asset sales in Nxt. If this sale allowed someone to outgun everyone else in the community it is not only due to the special interest arised to join the IGNIS ICO, but also because of the model of sale divided in relatively small chunks. In another model you could place the whole supply in dutch auction, at different price levels, so you would not run out of supply. Then you could also have in theory early birdwhales that take the cheaper bites faster, which would make people upset... although probably less upset, because they couldn't buy as cheap as they wanted but in the end they got their tokens. I hope this will be eventually the outcome of this ICO.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 06, 2017, 02:59:33 am
lol you realize something is wrong when missed out investors congratulate with the one who made it just as like it was an hackaton.   ;D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: goodsignal on August 06, 2017, 03:12:26 am
Devs: Flip the ICO model on it's head.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Centaurus on August 06, 2017, 03:24:35 am
Devs: Flip the ICO model on it's head.
  • Turn the JLRDA buying periods into a purchase request period.
  • At the end of the period, order all purchase requests from small to large.
  • Cumulatively sum all purchase request, from small to large, until the total equals 5 million JLRDA (or whatever the total sale is for the period).
  • Sell to that set of buyers.
  • Be heroes in the crypto world, make the majority happy, get tons of good press, and make all the money that was intended.

Sounds like a good idea to me. I set my alarm to wake up at 1 AM this morning to try buying some JRLDA tokens. After reading this thread, I just canceled the alarm gave up the idea of trying to buy some JLRDA tokens. I want to support NXT and ARDOR, but I am giving it up. What a sad experience!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nikhsub11 on August 06, 2017, 04:09:38 am
You will keep coming and the staff will keep banning you and removing your insults.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: forkedchain on August 06, 2017, 04:38:04 am
Can an expert on phasing answer a question for me?

Im trying to understand phasing, the way I though it works, is when you submit a phased transaction, say to buy a MS currency, whatever rate you are offering and the units you are buying determine the NXT you are putting a hold/bond on.  right?

But our whale here, has 33 pending phased transactions, all to buy JLRDA.  Ive done the math on them all and it all adds up to 31619222.35 worth of NXT?  how can that be, the whale's account doesnt have that much?

Am I doing the math right?  for example, here is 1 phased currency buy offer: one order was units: "490000",rateNQT: "10500".  This rate is much higher than would be required, but lets forget that for now.  wouldnt we just divide that 490000/10500 to see how much NXT is being exchanged for JLRDA?  if so then this transaction is 46.66666667 NXT, but if you add up all 33 transactions, its 31619222.35!  well more than in account

ok so best guess is i wasnt mathing right.  my best calcs now is the whale has 5223702.7 worth of NXT open in phased orders between those 33 transactions.  wonder why whale is doing it this way?

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: schnidl on August 06, 2017, 05:53:13 am
I do understand that many believers and investors are dissapointed and sad because most had other expectations. Everyone wanna let of some steem and this infects lots of others. Me too.
But when i calmed down and thought about it without emotions, i understood, that everything's okay as it is.
Sure the whale has an huge advantage, but it's okay, it's part of the game, he's not doing something illegal. And in the end it wont be that much different if i buy a little bit more expensive, it still will be cheap and after some time the bad, negative mood will be gone. I'm sure the ICO will be a success, especially because many many people wont be scared by this situation (even i know lots of people who will invest, so i think there are plenty outside).
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: SwissAlps on August 06, 2017, 06:31:18 am
Hi guys,

I am ashamed.

After reading these posts, I am ashamed.

People swearing, talking about legal actions, making insults. What are you doing here ?  During the last three years, NXT was obtainable at a very low price, were have you been ? Yesterday morning, I too wanted to buy some JLRDA at .40, a low price, it's going to be 1 JLRDA for 2 NXT at distribution time, so 5 times more, so we could all be rich in 3 months, is it what we want ? Not at all !!!

Why do we make an ICO ? Can you not see the real reason for the ICO ?  These guys, the devs, they have been working without funds during a very long time, the market capitalisation was poor, only 10M USD...but our devs stayed (well, some could not, they needed a job), and implemented a very impressive roadmap, child chains and a lot more. They would like now to extract 50M USD from this ICO, and build with it a stable and effective sale force. Don't you see that all current Nxters will profit a lot of this (I seem to have read about expropriation, could not believe it) ? THANKS to them for what they have done, ARDR and NXT are now at 300M USD, great !

And during these years, most of us left the forum, left the boat so to say; only a few words of support from time to time but not much more. We should have bring more support to our devs.

For that, I am ashamed.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: forkedchain on August 06, 2017, 07:30:25 am
thanks for that.  Riker, JLP, and others, you guys have worked hard for years here.  i do appreciate it.  its been quite the ride
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Gabriel on August 06, 2017, 07:36:06 am
Why do we make an ICO ? Can you not see the real reason for the ICO ?  These guys, the devs, they have been working without funds during a very long time, the market capitalisation was poor, only 10M USD...but our devs stayed (well, some could not, they needed a job), and implemented a very impressive roadmap, child chains and a lot more.

Fully agree with this. The devs are doing a great job and not getting enough appreciation for it!!
I was shocked by the swearing and insults yesterday. Such people definitely have no place in this community.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 06, 2017, 08:33:57 am
this is not about the hard work of jelurida, which is amazing. it is about how to develop an ico.

this ico sounds more to a private placement than an ipo.
what the bot did is legal but it is not the best way to develop an ico.

in the LinkedIn, facebook, etc...everybody had opportunity to participate in the ico. it was not the first bidder takes all...it was a prorate basis auction
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 06, 2017, 09:08:36 am
Devs: Flip the ICO model on it's head.
  • Turn the JLRDA buying periods into a purchase request period.
  • At the end of the period, order all purchase requests from small to large.
  • Cumulatively sum all purchase request, from small to large, until the total equals 5 million JLRDA (or whatever the total sale is for the period).
  • Sell to that set of buyers.
  • Be heroes in the crypto world, make the majority happy, get tons of good press, and make all the money that was intended.
The usual answer to these kind of proposals is that the whale can split their account into many smaller ones, and make multiple buy requests.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 06, 2017, 09:20:28 am
ok so best guess is i wasnt mathing right.  my best calcs now is the whale has 5223702.7 worth of NXT open in phased orders between those 33 transactions.  wonder why whale is doing it this way?
Is each transaction for a different block height? Maybe the whale isn't sniffing unconfirmed transactions at all. Maybe they just attempted to buy in each block in the 30 minutes window, so whichever block the sell order appeared in they were sure to hit the same block.

The devs split the sale over 30 minute windows in an attempt to randomise who won, thinking this would make it harder for a single whale to get the lot. In fact it has had the opposite effect. To be sure of hitting the right block in each window, you need Nxt for 30 times your buy order. Only whales can manage that. And even whales wouldn't manage it if the entire tranche was sold in a single offering. They would need 24M * 30 NXT.

Only a whale has enough Nxt to try to hit all 30 blocks.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Neomadra on August 06, 2017, 10:19:05 am
ok so best guess is i wasnt mathing right.  my best calcs now is the whale has 5223702.7 worth of NXT open in phased orders between those 33 transactions.  wonder why whale is doing it this way?

I'm wondering as well. Yesterday I tried to grab some JLRDA by looking if there are JLRDA available and then immediately buy. This didn't work out, because the amount of available JLRDA is only seen using the api when the transaction is included in the blockchain, i.e. I can only execute my transaction one block later. Now I tryto execute the buy order in the same block by looking for unconfirmed transactions und then immediately post a buy order. Unfortunately, the buy order is just ignored doing it this way. I don't use any phased transactions and I only post one buy order because I don't have the NXT to fill several buy orders. But probably therein lies the trick but I don't understand it yet.

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 06, 2017, 10:19:17 am
Please correct me if I am wrong. A whale sends the maximum amount of NXT to the ICO address at the very beginning of the block and paying high transaction fees. If the block has the Ignis sale, the transaction completes, if the block is the wrong one, the transaction is rejected and fees are burned.

If this is the hack, what is the ICO address and what does the transaction requires? (any particular encrypted/unencrypted message).

Another thing nobody has been able to answer, why only this whale can go through?
If there is a fee/race condition, is it possible that such trick will be more likely to succeed if the transaction is sent from a node?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: starik69 on August 06, 2017, 10:48:03 am
Please correct me if I am wrong.
You are totally wrong :'(
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 06, 2017, 11:20:20 am
The whale posted this through his NXT-XJX2-VVBU-XAMC-DQZJ5 account (the one that authorised the phased transactions), just after the third offer completed:
Quote
Hi,

Everyone is thinking i'm using some kind of bot. I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I'm not... for the very simple reason that I wouldn't know how to make one. I'm not a programmer and i don't know how to code.

I work in a movie theater guys...

The reason i'm able to be the first is because I prepared this ICO since weeks before. I learned how it worked, how transactions worked, I read wiki about the API, and learned how to use it.
And more importantly, I tested everything. I used the testnet and tried everything multiple time. I made hundreds of transactions to test all the different possible case.
I even made plan to be ready in case the developers tried to changes the rules at the last minute.

That's what made me able to be the first...i invested time and work. And you didn't.

I'm planning on buying 5 millions additional Ignis at this price level.
But not on the next round, I have to go to work.
He denies using a bot. Given what forkedchain says about the phased transactions in #191, I now think Riker's analysis in the first post of this thread is wrong. He's not monitoring unconfirmed transactions at all. He just submitted a phased transaction for each block in the 30 minute window.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: mister on August 06, 2017, 11:40:48 am
The whale posted this through his NXT-XJX2-VVBU-XAMC-DQZJ5 account (the one that authorised the phased transactions), just after the third offer completed:
Quote
Hi,

Everyone is thinking i'm using some kind of bot. I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I'm not... for the very simple reason that I wouldn't know how to make one. I'm not a programmer and i don't know how to code.

I work in a movie theater guys...

The reason i'm able to be the first is because I prepared this ICO since weeks before. I learned how it worked, how transactions worked, I read wiki about the API, and learned how to use it.
And more importantly, I tested everything. I used the testnet and tried everything multiple time. I made hundreds of transactions to test all the different possible case.
I even made plan to be ready in case the developers tried to changes the rules at the last minute.

That's what made me able to be the first...i invested time and work. And you didn't.

I'm planning on buying 5 millions additional Ignis at this price level.
But not on the next round, I have to go to work.
He denies using a bot. Given what forkedchain says about the phased transactions in #191, I now think Riker's analysis in the first post of this thread is wrong. He's not monitoring unconfirmed transactions at all. He just submitted a phased transaction for each block in the 30 minute window.

As I said yesterday:

"Was it a bot that was listening the unconfirmed transactions? I don´t think so as there were phased transactions from that account starting on the 28th July in order to cover all possible blocks for the ICO time slot"

I would like to know what are the analysis made to state that it was a bot listening unconfirmed transactions.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Muenzpraeger on August 06, 2017, 11:59:47 am
The whale posted this through his NXT-XJX2-VVBU-XAMC-DQZJ5 account (the one that authorised the phased transactions), just after the third offer completed:
Quote
Hi,

Everyone is thinking i'm using some kind of bot. I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I'm not... for the very simple reason that I wouldn't know how to make one. I'm not a programmer and i don't know how to code.

I work in a movie theater guys...

The reason i'm able to be the first is because I prepared this ICO since weeks before. I learned how it worked, how transactions worked, I read wiki about the API, and learned how to use it.
And more importantly, I tested everything. I used the testnet and tried everything multiple time. I made hundreds of transactions to test all the different possible case.
I even made plan to be ready in case the developers tried to changes the rules at the last minute.

That's what made me able to be the first...i invested time and work. And you didn't.

I'm planning on buying 5 millions additional Ignis at this price level.
But not on the next round, I have to go to work.
He denies using a bot. Given what forkedchain says about the phased transactions in #191, I now think Riker's analysis in the first post of this thread is wrong. He's not monitoring unconfirmed transactions at all. He just submitted a phased transaction for each block in the 30 minute window.

That sounds convincing but it was said yesterday that he had already lined up his phased transaction for each window in advance. How was he able to know the exact block heights for each window in advance? I was under the impression that the block times can vary by a few seconds. If he had the transactions lined up days in advance, those few seconds would add up big time. Maybe he had some buffer transactions added just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: S3MKi on August 06, 2017, 12:07:58 pm
Jelurida killing Ardor by this Ignis ico. Welldone.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 06, 2017, 12:59:03 pm
Please correct me if I am wrong.
You are totally wrong :'(

lol thank you for the constructive reply :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: box1413 on August 06, 2017, 01:21:23 pm
what if the plan was to trick speculators out of the game... this would be a good way to remove those that would just sell right after ignis is released.... make the ico look bad initially, but we all can agree it will be open up more freely on the 100 million ignis releases...

how can we turn this into a positive pr if the devs is reluctant to restart.

let's brainstorm it

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 06, 2017, 01:38:11 pm
The whale posted this through his NXT-XJX2-VVBU-XAMC-DQZJ5 account (the one that authorised the phased transactions), just after the third offer completed:
Quote
Hi,

Everyone is thinking i'm using some kind of bot. I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I'm not... for the very simple reason that I wouldn't know how to make one. I'm not a programmer and i don't know how to code.

I work in a movie theater guys...

The reason i'm able to be the first is because I prepared this ICO since weeks before. I learned how it worked, how transactions worked, I read wiki about the API, and learned how to use it.
And more importantly, I tested everything. I used the testnet and tried everything multiple time. I made hundreds of transactions to test all the different possible case.
I even made plan to be ready in case the developers tried to changes the rules at the last minute.

That's what made me able to be the first...i invested time and work. And you didn't.

I'm planning on buying 5 millions additional Ignis at this price level.
But not on the next round, I have to go to work.
He denies using a bot. Given what forkedchain says about the phased transactions in #191, I now think Riker's analysis in the first post of this thread is wrong. He's not monitoring unconfirmed transactions at all. He just submitted a phased transaction for each block in the 30 minute window.

That sounds convincing but it was said yesterday that he had already lined up his phased transaction for each window in advance. How was he able to know the exact block heights for each window in advance? I was under the impression that the block times can vary by a few seconds. If he had the transactions lined up days in advance, those few seconds would add up big time. Maybe he had some buffer transactions added just to be on the safe side.
He didn't queue them very far in advance. The first is for 8:13, which is only a couple of minutes before the window opened. I'm still not sure exactly what he did, to be honest. I gather using phased transactions gives you priority over people who don't use them. I don't think you need a bot if you can afford to issue a new transaction every block for the 30 minute window.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: razkalgr on August 06, 2017, 02:13:22 pm
quite strong portfolio for a movie theater guy...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: BoatRocker on August 06, 2017, 02:43:39 pm
I'm now sending out e-mails to cryptocurrency news websites, informing them of the Ignis ICO problems.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: freedom on August 06, 2017, 03:05:30 pm
We cannot complain about the whale buying as many coins as he can or beating us in terms of speed.
But we can blame this ICO structure for wasting our time.
I assume the purpose of these stupid 30 minute secret windows is to give people a fair chance to buy or something?
Clearly that is not the case so now these stupid 30 minute windows are wasting everyones time and preventing us from buying.
Imagine everyone taking off work for these 30 minute windows everyday just to get nothing.
If they just opened up the entire 60 million right now, then the whale and other whales could finish buying, then we could pick up the rest or know to wait for the next round.
This ICO is a joke.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: joelquest on August 06, 2017, 03:31:46 pm
Hi guys,

I am ashamed.

After reading these posts, I am ashamed.

People swearing, talking about legal actions, making insults. What are you doing here ?  During the last three years, NXT was obtainable at a very low price, were have you been ? Yesterday morning, I too wanted to buy some JLRDA at .40, a low price, it's going to be 1 JLRDA for 2 NXT at distribution time, so 5 times more, so we could all be rich in 3 months, is it what we want ? Not at all !!!

Why do we make an ICO ? Can you not see the real reason for the ICO ?  These guys, the devs, they have been working without funds during a very long time, the market capitalisation was poor, only 10M USD...but our devs stayed (well, some could not, they needed a job), and implemented a very impressive roadmap, child chains and a lot more. They would like now to extract 50M USD from this ICO, and build with it a stable and effective sale force. Don't you see that all current Nxters will profit a lot of this (I seem to have read about expropriation, could not believe it) ? THANKS to them for what they have done, ARDR and NXT are now at 300M USD, great !

And during these years, most of us left the forum, left the boat so to say; only a few words of support from time to time but not much more. We should have bring more support to our devs.

For that, I am ashamed.

Thanks for this, it was a bit of perspective that I needed.   

I admit, I rushed hard to judgement on this one.   I reacted viscerally to the events that unfolded and the reactions that followed.  Sometimes it's helpful to have a reminder that in all likelyhood, the Dev team is just a bunch of dedicated honest people who want to see their efforts succeed, rather than the assumption that everyone is a clever scam artist.    I have worked for tech startups, so I get the long hours, uncertain pay and constant demands.   I suppose I forgot that I'm really investing in an idea that's not established, rather than a business with a household name.    It's easy to forget that this is a learning process for everyone... developers, even experienced ones, are doing things that are in many ways, totally brand new and unexplored territory in business.    They try to plan for every possibility, sometimes things are unpredictable or unavoidable.  No one likes to admit that people are human, especially when there's money on the line, but that's just a fact of life.

As an investor and someone with only 2 years of aggressive immersion in crypto, I've learned a lot, but I always feel like I don't know anything.   I treat crypto as a full time job, spending HOURS a day watching videos, listening to podcasts, reading and lurking on forums and subreddits.  I mow the lawn and listen to crypto podcasts.   I've been keeping a close watch on NXT and ARDOR and I'm excited for all that this product has to offer and I've always gotten a sense of honesty and straightforwardness from the material I've seen released by the team. 

And emotions run hot at times like these.    What we saw play out was fairly super-dramatic.   Many of us were super excited by the ICO.  Rearranged schedules.  Lost sleep.   Excitedly told anyone that would listen about ARDOR and IGNIS and the legacy that is NXT.   I can't tell you how many people I've gotten interested in NXT and the coming ARDOR Platforms.   I've spent much time trying to break down the complexity of it into a way that crypto beginner can understand.   

Imagine how all of us (and there's a lot) felt when something we've anticipated for months turns out the way it did.  Many of us didn't know whether to salute the whale or form a lynch mob to find them.   We all get it was a brilliant move, but at the end of a day, a dick move none-the-less.    Just because you weren't there on day 1 of NXT doesn't mean you were any less disappointed.   It will be very natural to point fingers until the everything comes out in the open.  Don't forget, this project will always need new blood and people excited about it, and that will means the longer you are on board, the more patient you will have to be with the people that came after you.   this forum should be excited that there are a ton of people asking entry level questions.   I get it.  it's annoying they didn't spend 2 seconds googling an answer that's been asked 1000 times in the last week.   Embrace those people.   But also understand that there's a LOT of us with a lot of emotional and financial stake and trust in this project and to see someone swoop in, no matter what the cir   cumstances will draw rage.   And, myself included, felt that the response of "well, that's how the world works, we can't change it." might add fuel to that fire.   

The dust has settled and more information has come to light.    I'm still going to stand by the project all the way. 




Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: lurker10 on August 06, 2017, 03:48:40 pm
...

Thanks for this, it was a bit of perspective that I needed.   

I admit, I rushed hard to judgement on this one.
...
The dust has settled and more information has come to light.    I'm still going to stand by the project all the way.

This feels more like the attitude you want to be able to survive in this industry. Emotions always give bad advice. Honestly, we should be happy that it happened the way it happened, because speculators who were in it only for the quick buck will hopefully disappear, and it's good for them and for the project. Those who can see through the fud are strong hands and they can understand that this is all part of the game. Maybe, maybe the whale shouldn't have done the way he did, not as conspicuously. But in the end it'll turn out well, purging weak hands and making more people interested to explore the platform's rich set of features, the way you can interact with it and program it to do really cool stuff. The people who build infrastructure around cryptocurrency are manyfold more valuable than turn-quick-profit speculators.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: galeki on August 06, 2017, 04:08:30 pm
Besides some emotional complaint everything looks just fine.

Devs got their fund, that's the most important thing.

If the first 2~3 bunches can't be sold out or only small investors are buying, that the real problem. 
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 06, 2017, 04:12:51 pm
speculators are not a problem as long as the leading team is a great team. Nxt/ardor development team is one of the best in the cryptoword. Lots of new features in cryptoland appeared in nxt for first time and latter copied by others.

The problem is pr and customer management. Hope jelurida hires a good team of sales+marketing+pr people with ico funds.

i think ico problems could be managed in a different way in the following rounds in order to improve pr.

btw, it would be great if jelurida says something in its site about future round developmemt after all this hype created.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: box1413 on August 06, 2017, 04:35:22 pm
the inability to buy ignis actually might be a good thing... or might even be intentional as a marketing strategy. imagine if the first few rounds were not fully sold out. what would that mean? that would mean phase 2 of 80 million selling would not sell neither. neither would the last round of 100million...

if they time it correctly and create enough hype by releasing specific news that they KNOW will affect hype... they can fully sell out the last 100M by RESTRICTING early sales of ignis

the early birds that are trying to get in now are complaining, but maybe that was done on purpose to illicit this response.

with the drop in price of nxt, its very possible that ignis might even be worth the same as the .4 distribution price as of right now. say nxt is 5k satoshi.. but if it drops to 2k by the last round of 100m, you'd essentially be getting the same thing.

its actually and ingenious marketing strategy if that is what it is... intentional or not. either way, this supposedly "bad" pr can be spun in this manner.

I think as a community we should focus on how to spin this in a positive light. Keep in mind this is only 1-2% of the entire distribution. We still have ALOT of time.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: BoatRocker on August 06, 2017, 04:45:33 pm
But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.

It is not a crowdsale. Jelurida publicly claimed that if people bought NXT, and downloaded the client software (1.11.6), they could participate in a crowdsale. But in fact, what happened was that 99.5% of the tokens so far (after 3 offers), were purchased by one account, using bot software. Riker (Lior Yaffe) has publicly admitted that the account in question used specialized software, not available for use by most purchasers of NXT.

And that constitutes multiple counts of criminal fraud. Tens of millions of dollars per day were spent on NXT, on the basis of Jelurida's fraudlent claim that the holders of NXT could participate in the crowdsale. And when Jelurida learned that they could not, the company was criminally negligent in resolving the problem.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Peter2516 on August 06, 2017, 05:27:04 pm
But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.

Blablabla. Lies. FUD.

Obvious troll is obvious. :D Paid perhaps? Or just bored.
Just go away, and spread your FUD and lies somewhere else.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 06, 2017, 05:37:44 pm
But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.

It is not a crowdsale. Jelurida publicly claimed that if people bought NXT, and downloaded the client software (1.11.6), they could participate in a crowdsale. But in fact, what happened was that 99.5% of the tokens so far (after 3 offers), were purchased by one account, using bot software. Riker (Lior Yaffe) has publicly admitted that the account in question used specialized software, not available for use by most purchasers of NXT.

And that constitutes multiple counts of criminal fraud. Tens of millions of dollars per day were spent on NXT, on the basis of Jelurida's fraudlent claim that the holders of NXT could participate in the crowdsale. And when Jelurida learned that they could not, the company was criminally negligent in resolving the problem.

I'm getting a bit tired of this, just after 3% of the ICO supply (1.5% of the total IGNIS) has been offered for sale. If I see you posting again in this tone, calling Jelurida criminals, you're out.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Quadraloop on August 06, 2017, 05:45:01 pm
The problem that this has just created is , there is people looking at crypto as a form of busiseness expantion I myself own a company that I was looking into what blockchain to adapt for my needs and I thought NXT was the route to take but after this I'm looking at etherium and I'm not the only
One , if I choose a bad blockchain it jepeodises my company's using ardr and nxt , I have dumped my nxt in place for ether.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Peter2516 on August 06, 2017, 05:48:49 pm

Blablabla.

Another 1-post newbie claiming to have dumped all its NXT, right.
Go have fun on Ethereum and its real exploits.
I don't believe you. Troll.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Ricardus on August 06, 2017, 06:13:54 pm
But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.

It is not a crowdsale. Jelurida publicly claimed that if people bought NXT, and downloaded the client software (1.11.6), they could participate in a crowdsale. But in fact, what happened was that 99.5% of the tokens so far (after 3 offers), were purchased by one account, using bot software. Riker (Lior Yaffe) has publicly admitted that the account in question used specialized software, not available for use by most purchasers of NXT.

And that constitutes multiple counts of criminal fraud. Tens of millions of dollars per day were spent on NXT, on the basis of Jelurida's fraudlent claim that the holders of NXT could participate in the crowdsale. And when Jelurida learned that they could not, the company was criminally negligent in resolving the problem.

If you're going to throw around legal accusations, you might try being a little more specific.  Who's laws are you referring to here?  Are you in the US? The EU? Could you explain these 'multiple counts of criminal fraud' a bit more succinctly?  I don't think you can.  You seem like the type to use strong words to get attention, but that's about it.  You're a bomb thrower, and methinks Admin is on to something with you having another agenda.  But I would be surprised if there is anything professional going on with you. 

I agree that the tone has gotten bad and I suspect it will continue somewhat. I appreciate the cooler heads weighing in.  Thanks for that. 
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rickhill on August 06, 2017, 06:23:40 pm
welö
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rgmartin0727 on August 06, 2017, 06:25:31 pm
Well, the good news (perhaps) is that currently only has a balance of 1.4 million NXT, so at least he or she cannot purchase all of the IGNIS this round... Unless of course it re-ups in the next 20 minutes.

Always look on the bright side of life.

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rickhill on August 06, 2017, 06:31:27 pm
But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.

It is not a crowdsale. Jelurida publicly claimed that if people bought NXT, and downloaded the client software (1.11.6), they could participate in a crowdsale. But in fact, what happened was that 99.5% of the tokens so far (after 3 offers), were purchased by one account, using bot software. Riker (Lior Yaffe) has publicly admitted that the account in question used specialized software, not available for use by most purchasers of NXT.

And that constitutes multiple counts of criminal fraud. Tens of millions of dollars per day were spent on NXT, on the basis of Jelurida's fraudlent claim that the holders of NXT could participate in the crowdsale. And when Jelurida learned that they could not, the company was criminally negligent in resolving the problem.

I'm getting a bit tired of this, just after 3% of the ICO supply (1.5% of the total IGNIS) has been offered for sale. If I see you posting again in this tone, calling Jelurida criminals, you're out.

It doesn't matter what you think. The general tone is that this was a bad call by Jelurida and if you don't understand that your plain stupid.

It's really simple, the price of NXT talks for itself. People are disappointed and abandoning. Just look at Twitter, everywhere..
Who cares that a few thinks that his guy somewhat deserves his IGNIS as he put more work in than others.

Isn't the whole idea about crypto decentralization, create interest and grow. Well, Jelurida has failed miserablely in this case.
This event and Jeluridas response doesn't create trust and it's very bad marketing, plain and simple.




Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: goodsignal on August 06, 2017, 06:49:43 pm
Devs: Flip the ICO model on it's head.
  • Turn the JLRDA buying periods into a purchase request period.
  • At the end of the period, order all purchase requests from small to large.
  • Cumulatively sum all purchase request, from small to large, until the total equals 5 million JLRDA (or whatever the total sale is for the period).
  • Sell to that set of buyers.
  • Be heroes in the crypto world, make the majority happy, get tons of good press, and make all the money that was intended.
The usual answer to these kind of proposals is that the whale can split their account into many smaller ones, and make multiple buy requests.
I bet there are valid criticisms of this model but I doubt that this is the usual one. First of all, if a whale splits their account into many there's no mechanism that puts the whale's request first, thus leveling the playing field. Second, each buy request costs a transaction fee creating some balance of diminishing returns.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 06, 2017, 06:57:05 pm
plain and simple.

dude, you are posting in the official NXT forum, there is a strong feeling of membership in here, it's understandable and very human that the majority of people here are in complete denial.
as someone said, emotions should be kept out of the game, perhaps it's a fact that dropping NXT at the first round was the best move, considering you can re-buy low when the whales are done and still enter the ico.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gh on August 06, 2017, 07:08:29 pm
.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gravityz3r0 on August 06, 2017, 07:08:42 pm
Hey guys,

What does it means when i was actually able to get to the purchase confirmation page, submitted the purchase and see my NXT deducted. But one minute later, everything was refunded and i get this status in my transaction "Exchanges:   No matching exchange offer."

Under Exchange Booth, it shows up as unfilled order in "Exchange Request". Does it means that it will automatically be filled first when the next batch is released? Or is the whole transaction considered void and i have to try again?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: lurker10 on August 06, 2017, 07:13:00 pm
Hey guys,

What does it means when i was actually able to get to the purchase confirmation page, submitted the purchase and see my NXT deducted. But one minute later, everything was refunded and i get this status in my transaction "Exchanges:   No matching exchange offer."

Under Exchange Booth, it shows up as unfilled order in "Exchange Request". Does it means that it will automatically be filled first when the next batch is released? Or is the whole transaction considered void and i have to try again?

Thanks!

It's considered void and you can try again when the next batch is put for sale.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jmvarner83 on August 06, 2017, 07:14:38 pm
Are you guys for real?  Charges you the 1tx fee but order is void?

I was right there when the screen flashed. 

Is it because I'm running light client that my order did not go through fast enough?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gravityz3r0 on August 06, 2017, 07:18:42 pm
Hey guys,

What does it means when i was actually able to get to the purchase confirmation page, submitted the purchase and see my NXT deducted. But one minute later, everything was refunded and i get this status in my transaction "Exchanges:   No matching exchange offer."

Under Exchange Booth, it shows up as unfilled order in "Exchange Request". Does it means that it will automatically be filled first when the next batch is released? Or is the whole transaction considered void and i have to try again?

Thanks!

It's considered void and you can try again when the next batch is put for sale.

Hmm, according to the screenshot, i'm getting an impression that my offer to buy  is pending until the next sell offer and that it will be first filled since it's already under "queue". Isn't that what it means?

(http://i.imgur.com/pIJQcbS.png)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jmvarner83 on August 06, 2017, 07:20:11 pm
Hey guys,

What does it means when i was actually able to get to the purchase confirmation page, submitted the purchase and see my NXT deducted. But one minute later, everything was refunded and i get this status in my transaction "Exchanges:   No matching exchange offer."

Under Exchange Booth, it shows up as unfilled order in "Exchange Request". Does it means that it will automatically be filled first when the next batch is released? Or is the whole transaction considered void and i have to try again?

Thanks!

It's considered void and you can try again when the next batch is put for sale.

Hmm, according to the screenshot, i'm getting an impression that my offer to buy  is pending until the next sell offer and that it will be first filled since it's already under "queue". Isn't that what it means?

(http://i.imgur.com/pIJQcbS.png)

That is what I'm hoping too as mine shows up that way!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gh on August 06, 2017, 07:21:07 pm
.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gravityz3r0 on August 06, 2017, 07:22:45 pm
What a shame :( they should not clear the backlog, afterall we have been charged the fee of 1NXT.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jmvarner83 on August 06, 2017, 07:33:20 pm
The history doesn't show all 5 million tokens.  It flashed at 5 mill, went away and showed 0, then come back around 3.7mill.

It also deducted my balance at one point.

Cat and mouse game with this one, but for a multi-million dollar company I kinda expected more.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cayenne on August 06, 2017, 07:44:47 pm
Well, I'm disappointed in the Ignis ICO. I could keep trying to buy during one of the half hour windows, but I have to depend on luck. I don't think this is a good way to conduct an ICO. I have some Ardor, but I've sold off most of my NXT.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Edgard on August 06, 2017, 07:51:03 pm
I just refreshed the Token Sale interface (7:40 UTC, outside of the time frame for this round) and again there was a flash of 5M available, but with the Buy button locked...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 06, 2017, 07:52:59 pm
Any luck for anyone? Have anyone bought coins via ICO Token Sale page? Or all orders were from bots?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Edgard on August 06, 2017, 07:57:17 pm
But the time of my order was 20:55:00, so 19 seconds faster than the time appearing for the other accounts 20:55:19. How can that be that my order wasn't filled out?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 06, 2017, 07:58:31 pm
But the time of my order was 20:55:00, so 19 seconds faster than the time appearing for the other accounts 20:55:19. How can that be that my order wasn't filled out?

Are they still cheating? :o Need to try next time myself.

By the way, looks like another guy NXT-CFLD-HWZ9-8YR4-E3BYQ got the point of running a phasing transactions before JLRDA goes to public. So there are 2 accounts now who use this technique.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Edgard on August 06, 2017, 08:01:57 pm
They are not using the 'crowdsale' page, for sure.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 06, 2017, 08:04:38 pm
They are not using the 'crowdsale' page, for sure.

I believe so, but will try tomorrow. Bought some NXT back for that.

Someone is driving the price down right after the sale. How can I track funds down from the ICO to know when Jelurida sends them to an exchange?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: VanBreuk on August 06, 2017, 08:24:49 pm
But this is a crowd sale not distribution method.

It is not a crowdsale. Jelurida publicly claimed that if people bought NXT, and downloaded the client software (1.11.6), they could participate in a crowdsale. But in fact, what happened was that 99.5% of the tokens so far (after 3 offers), were purchased by one account, using bot software. Riker (Lior Yaffe) has publicly admitted that the account in question used specialized software, not available for use by most purchasers of NXT.

And that constitutes multiple counts of criminal fraud. Tens of millions of dollars per day were spent on NXT, on the basis of Jelurida's fraudlent claim that the holders of NXT could participate in the crowdsale. And when Jelurida learned that they could not, the company was criminally negligent in resolving the problem.

I'm getting a bit tired of this, just after 3% of the ICO supply (1.5% of the total IGNIS) has been offered for sale. If I see you posting again in this tone, calling Jelurida criminals, you're out.

It doesn't matter what you think. The general tone is that this was a bad call by Jelurida and if you don't understand that your plain stupid.

It's really simple, the price of NXT talks for itself. People are disappointed and abandoning. Just look at Twitter, everywhere..
Who cares that a few thinks that his guy somewhat deserves his IGNIS as he put more work in than others.

Isn't the whole idea about crypto decentralization, create interest and grow. Well, Jelurida has failed miserablely in this case.
This event and Jeluridas response doesn't create trust and it's very bad marketing, plain and simple.

What I think is relevant when it comes to moderating this forum, and not because the ICO plan devised by Jelurida hasn't started as they expected or because it will be resolved one way or another. I intervene when someone is ignoring the NxtForum rules (https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=2011.0) which you also agreed to follow when you registered. This is NOT Bitcointalk. Insults and threats are not tolerated, and new users like BoatRocker who repeatedly post calling Jelurida criminals, and giving gratuitous threats about legal action, deserve at least a warning.

Criticism and discussion is always good, and necessary when something does not work as intended or defrauds expectations. But the amount of agressivity, fudding and shilling in this topic exceeds anything we have seen here in over three years. If you don't understand that, and cannot see the difference between pointing out the flaws in the beginning of the ICO and asking the devs for a response, and insulting and threatening, maybe this community is not for you.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Edgard on August 06, 2017, 08:31:07 pm
Quote
I believe so, but will try tomorrow. Bought some NXT back for that.

Someone is driving the price down right after the sale. How can I track funds down from the ICO to know when Jelurida sends them to an exchange?

It is highly likely that Jelurida already started dumping NXT and they will continue doing so during this ICO. There's a good article to read on steemit.com on the Ignis ICO, couldn't post the link here.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 06, 2017, 08:40:05 pm
Quote
I believe so, but will try tomorrow. Bought some NXT back for that.

Someone is driving the price down right after the sale. How can I track funds down from the ICO to know when Jelurida sends them to an exchange?

It is highly likely that Jelurida already started dumping NXT and they will continue doing so during this ICO. There's a good article to read on steemit.com on the Ignis ICO, couldn't post the link here.

Can you post it's exact title, if not a link? There are several articles about this ICO.

I'm not still sure that it's Jelurida who is dumping the price. That's why I'm asking how to find out the wallet where these ICO funds go.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Muenzpraeger on August 06, 2017, 08:41:10 pm
Can anyone explain why my tx in block 127 got refunded while people in block 128 got tokens?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: estepario on August 06, 2017, 08:51:14 pm
Hello, as I have in capturing my screen I have pressed the purchase button even me to order in passport, and my purchase has not been made as is possible

Thank you
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: estepario on August 06, 2017, 08:54:12 pm
Hi I have even the screen copy where there is loa that I bought at 0.4 and the amount of nxt it costs

Also as I say on the squeeze he asked for the passport, but the purchase has not been made because

Thank you
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: estepario on August 06, 2017, 09:00:03 pm
Hello and also I have 1nxt of the balance of my account when performing this operation,
If necessary i can put the screen copy thanks
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: estepario on August 06, 2017, 09:05:18 pm
Hello somebody could tell me something I have the account NXT-P3KT-WP6T-CY3U-ADX3Q

Thank you
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Edgard on August 06, 2017, 09:17:27 pm
Quote
I believe so, but will try tomorrow. Bought some NXT back for that.

Someone is driving the price down right after the sale. How can I track funds down from the ICO to know when Jelurida sends them to an exchange?

It is highly likely that Jelurida already started dumping NXT and they will continue doing so during this ICO. There's a good article to read on steemit.com on the Ignis ICO, couldn't post the link here.

Can you post it's exact title, if not a link? There are several articles about this ICO.

I'm not still sure that it's Jelurida who is dumping the price. That's why I'm asking how to find out the wallet where these ICO funds go.

Sure, the title is: Ardor Platform Ignis ICO (Part 2 of 2)

The address of the seller (Jelurida) for this ICO is NXT-Y5Z8-XEQC-3AW2-46CF6, one way would be to track its transactions activity.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: aztecminer on August 06, 2017, 10:20:39 pm
hello everyone.. i am reporting back that my bot army has been unsuccessful at beating the MAAC bot and most recent army of movie theater bots. i made the decision to dump my NXT coins instead of try to beat the movie theater bots. one of my main concerns was that i was burning fees for nothing. that is big problem for me that i have to feed fees. the other concern is that the price of NXT is in a complete downfall route. i do not believe my bot army can beat the theater bot army. therefore, i decided to take my profit from NXT coins while i could still double my BTC. i will make final decisions on the ico depending if i decide to buy back NXT. it will depend if i feel i will get a deal that i feel good about for my bitcoin. sitting at the desktop every 12hrs trying to beat the movie theater bots is adding to my stress levels. i need to focus on other projects i am working on. we will see how it goes and what i will do next. if i do decide to return before ico completes, i will give my thoughts on what i learned about the platform. good luck everyone beating the theater bots to trade NXT coins for ignis coins..
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 07, 2017, 02:20:42 am
my bot army has been unsuccessful at beating the MAAC bot and most recent army of movie theater bots

lollerino :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Gabriel on August 07, 2017, 03:19:53 am
Actually, it's now likely that there are no bots, even less an army of them...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: danp123 on August 07, 2017, 03:44:45 am
The Whale isn't a winner here, everyone is a loser who has NXT or buys IGINS right now

At the time (Aug 4th) where you'd have to move coins to NXT the btc price was 2800 USD, and the NXT price was around .17 USD
Now it's 3300 and .13

So Aug4/5 you'd get 16,470 NXT per bitcoin and today you'd get 25,384.

Probably the price of NXT will continue to go down as it's sold for the ICO. 
In 3 months when the snapshot occurs lots could happen, US could allow Bitcoin ETFs price could go to $5k per bitcoin and NXT will be tied to 1/2 the price of Ignis.  The devs selling the NXT will lower the price of IGNIS...

The missing element here what you'd bet on is the Marketing that would drive up the price of NXT between now and the snapshot. 
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 07, 2017, 06:50:10 am
The whale will take it all again this time. The transaction on 5 millions JLRDA is on its way...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 07, 2017, 06:58:56 am
The whale will take it all again this time. The transaction on 5 millions JLRDA is on its way...

Something went wrong this time. The whale didn't take a coin. I was able to submit an order, but it didn't went through and the coins were returned back... 1 NXT fee was taken by the system.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: digicoiner on August 07, 2017, 07:03:46 am
The whale will take it all again this time. The transaction on 5 millions JLRDA is on its way...

Something went wrong this time. The whale didn't take a coin. I was able to submit an order, but it didn't went through and the coins were returned back... 1 NXT fee was taken by the system.

Same here, I submitted my order and it didn't go through but was recorded on the blockchain. I guess it didn't reach the right block in time.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: thecneu on August 07, 2017, 07:05:50 am
Same exact thing happened to me. There was 2.5M left when I tried. I was so excited then sad.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gravityz3r0 on August 07, 2017, 07:07:28 am
The bot will consistently know about the sale being started one whole block earlier (even before the sales order went up) than the rest of the world. I wonder how is that possible
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: estepario on August 07, 2017, 07:10:25 am
Hi, someone can look at the last two transactions in my account.
NXT-P3KT-WP6T-CY3U-ADX3Q

Try to buy in ico ahyer and today, at one point I discount the next amount of my account and then it returned to reflect.

And I charge the nxt as if the purchase had been made

Thank you
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 07, 2017, 07:17:14 am
Hi, someone can look at the last two transactions in my account.
NXT-P3KT-WP6T-CY3U-ADX3Q

Try to buy in ico ahyer and today, at one point I discount the next amount of my account and then it returned to reflect.

And I charge the nxt as if the purchase had been made

Thank you

Your transactions didn't went through because it was too late. You can see "No matching exchange offer." when you click it. The fee is taken in any case, so you lost 1 NXT...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: estepario on August 07, 2017, 07:31:24 am
thanks for the reply

So I see every time I try to buy the same thing happens to me,
I think it's not very fair, I do not have bots I've done manual
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 07, 2017, 08:07:11 am
The bot will consistently know about the sale being started one whole block earlier (even before the sales order went up) than the rest of the world. I wonder how is that possible
Two possibilities I'm aware of. The first is to monitor the transactions as they are broadcast but before they are included in a block. The second is to just post a bid in every block in the half-hour window, and hope one of them gets lucky.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Rogerdale on August 07, 2017, 08:09:05 am
The bot will consistently know about the sale being started one whole block earlier (even before the sales order went up) than the rest of the world. I wonder how is that possible
Two possibilities I'm aware of. The first is to monitor the transactions as they are broadcast but before they are included in a block. The second is to just post a bid in every block in the half-hour window, and hope one of them gets lucky.

Can I post a bid every block using UI only, without a bot?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 07, 2017, 08:10:32 am
where can i find how the distribution of this ico is being made?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: r1d1 on August 07, 2017, 08:24:37 am
I think the Whale can do work without bot.
Do you know you can open issuer account in NRS? You can open any account. It's a hint.
And he don't buy every block. He monitor offer and create buy transaction, then he monitor approval and approve own buy. Win. It's 100% worked way.

Respect, the Whale. You definitely did your work. Respect.

It's a recent message from the Whale.
Quote
Hi,

Everyone is thinking i'm using some kind of bot. I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I'm not... for the very simple reason that I wouldn't know how to make one. I'm not a programmer and i don't know how to code.

I work in a movie theater guys...

The reason i'm able to be the first is because I prepared this ICO since weeks before. I learned how it worked, how transactions worked, I read wiki about the API, and learned how to use it.
And more importantly, I tested everything. I used the testnet and tried everything multiple time. I made hundreds of transactions to test all the different possible case.
I even made plan to be ready in case the developers tried to changes the rules at the last minute.

That's what made me able to be the first...i invested time and work. And you didn't.

I'm planning on buying 5 millions additional Ignis at this price level.
But not on the next round, I have to go to work.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Peter2516 on August 07, 2017, 08:28:55 am
where can i find how the distribution of this ico is being made?
You mean current distribution after a couple of rounds, like https://nxtportal.org/currencies/823491988455668070 ?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 07, 2017, 08:59:59 am
where can i find how the distribution of this ico is being made?
You mean current distribution after a couple of rounds, like https://nxtportal.org/currencies/823491988455668070 ?
thank you
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 07, 2017, 10:38:57 am
finally, better late than never.

https://www.nxter.org/ignis-ico-report-2/

"Dear Nxt community members, thank you for your contribution in the first 2 days of the IGNIS ICO!

We are carefully considering the feedback and we are looking into possible ways to ensure that all the Nxters and also newcomers can participate in the IGNIS crowdsale more easily.

We also recommend to everybody to configure their Nxt client as a full node to avoid overloading the public nodes."

bravo!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Riker on August 07, 2017, 01:22:26 pm
See https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-11-7 for a release which addresses the transaction priority problem
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: nrgskill on August 07, 2017, 01:53:40 pm
v1.11.7 of the Nxt wallet is released. It is a recommended upgrade for everybody who wants to participate in the $IGNIS #crowdsale.

https://twitter.com/Jelurida/status/894555569704624128
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jmvarner83 on August 07, 2017, 02:45:40 pm
Almost woke up today ready to dump the coins I had purchased for a loss but the wallet update gives me some hope.  Missed the last 2 times and I've been about as quick as I could.

Seems to sync faster too and less buggy on Windows (Couldn't right click old one in taskbar, can now, blockchain downloaded much smoother)

Thanks for the update!  Got in late at 6k sat and have been frustrated since.

Now to get in the 1st week ICO and hold :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: joelquest on August 07, 2017, 03:48:19 pm
So I've sat through 5 sessions now, I've been able to place an order 3 times...all 3 times the NXT was returned to me. I was not awarded JLRDA. 

Does purchasing in the US affect anything? 
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 07, 2017, 04:14:42 pm
So I've sat through 5 sessions now, I've been able to place an order 3 times...all 3 times the NXT was returned to me. I was not awarded JLRDA. 

Does purchasing in the US affect anything?

It should not matter where you are.  With the new client it should be a lot more based on luck.  The ones before this, it was based a lot more off of you coded the best scripts  :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 07, 2017, 04:46:56 pm
So I've sat through 5 sessions now, I've been able to place an order 3 times...all 3 times the NXT was returned to me. I was not awarded JLRDA. 

Does purchasing in the US affect anything?

It should not matter where you are.  With the new client it should be a lot more based on luck.  The ones before this, it was based a lot more off of you coded the best scripts  :)

is there any kind of random proccess coded in order to choose the accounts that will receive ignis??
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Muenzpraeger on August 07, 2017, 05:57:57 pm
I twill be decided by the timestamp within the block. So, there's an element of luck and you shouldn't max out your Internet connection  ;D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: digicoiner on August 07, 2017, 06:56:35 pm
I've updated my client to the latest and submitted my order. Is preference given to when the order was submitted and will I increase my chances of the transaction being accepted if I increase the fee?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gh on August 07, 2017, 07:13:20 pm
.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Neomadra on August 07, 2017, 07:17:50 pm
The game has changed - those who submit the highest numbers of orders with the largest fees win.

Not true. Have a look on all the transaction fees.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gh on August 07, 2017, 07:20:27 pm
.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 07, 2017, 07:21:52 pm
There was also people with 1NXT fee that got JLRDA just now.  Fee's are not the deciding factor...at least not currently
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Neomadra on August 07, 2017, 07:26:08 pm
Fees only matter if the block is full. If the block is not full then "Within the block, the unconfirmed transactions are sorted by arrival timestamp".
https://nxtwiki.org/wiki/How_Tx_Processing_Works#Transactions_Order_within_a_Block
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 07, 2017, 07:41:27 pm
I've updated my client to the latest and submitted my order. Is preference given to when the order was submitted and will I increase my chances of the transaction being accepted if I increase the fee?
Fee affects whether you get into the block if there are more transactions than will fit in it. Once you are in, it's not supposed to affect the ordering.

It makes no difference when the order was submitted. What matters is arrival time at the node, and that depends on how soon the transactions reach your node, how quickly your node reacts, and then how quickly your transaction reaches the next forger. So it's mostly network delays, and it probably helps to be in the same country as the forger and/or the person who makes the offer. Also, phased transactions still have priority over non-phased.

This evening I think the offer happened in block 1428528, and the next 4 blocks have loads of transactions, so there may be some competition. However, the block itself does not look to be full, so network delays are more important. Quite a few winners were not phased transactions, eg 1261545532811507009 . Some phased transactions lost, eg 14736763169909938690. I'm not sure how that's possible.

I suspect from now on it'll mostly be a network speed lottery. The new client effectively means everyone has a bot. They can queue up their transaction hours in advance, and it either gets to the forger quickly enough or it doesn't. I think demand for this ICO is high enough to keep it over-subscribed for its entire run.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 07, 2017, 07:59:09 pm
Not sure if NXT is really suited for ICOs ...
I agree. In the last offering there were over 800 attempts to buy that failed. That's making for a lot of disheartened customers. To add insult to injury, they still had to pay the transaction fees. I think it's a lot fairer now, and I applaud the devs for fixing that, but there's still a problem.

At the moment I still think we need a pro-rata system, where everyone who wants some gets some, albeit maybe not as many as they wanted.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Edgard on August 07, 2017, 08:01:46 pm
I've updated my client to the latest and submitted my order. Is preference given to when the order was submitted and will I increase my chances of the transaction being accepted if I increase the fee?

They can queue up their transaction hours in advance, and it either gets to the forger quickly enough or it doesn't.

How many hours in advance of the round are we speaking here?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 07, 2017, 08:04:21 pm
How I imagined it would have gone is make JLRDA with 750,000,000 tokens and let anyone buy at a rate of 1NXT=1JLRDA.  If they sell out, then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1.5JLRDA token (around the current max ICO price).  If they sell 500,000,000 tokens then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1JLRDA; if they sell 250,000,000 tokens then everyone gets 2IGNIS for every 1 JLRDA and etc. 

This way there is no rush....but no bonuses either for early investors.  However, I think it would be the most fair
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 07, 2017, 08:25:46 pm
How I imagined it would have gone is make JLRDA with 750,000,000 tokens and let anyone buy at a rate of 1NXT=1JLRDA.  If they sell out, then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1.5JLRDA token (around the current max ICO price).  If they sell 500,000,000 tokens then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1JLRDA; if they sell 250,000,000 tokens then everyone gets 2IGNIS for every 1 JLRDA and etc. 

This way there is no rush....but no bonuses either for early investors.  However, I think it would be the most fair

yes, this option also works but as you say, there is no bonus. if we want bonus pro-rata is the fairest...

well, maybe Jelurida could try both systems and test which one is the best one to collect funds and give ignis. there are 4 more weeks with icos..
jelurida could try one as you say,another with prorate and decide after that what to do with the final 2
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Lex on August 07, 2017, 08:34:14 pm
Some phased transactions lost, eg 14736763169909938690. I'm not sure how that's possible.
This transaction wasn't approved, so it did not execute.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Bik_z19 on August 07, 2017, 08:52:09 pm
How I imagined it would have gone is make JLRDA with 750,000,000 tokens and let anyone buy at a rate of 1NXT=1JLRDA.  If they sell out, then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1.5JLRDA token (around the current max ICO price).  If they sell 500,000,000 tokens then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1JLRDA; if they sell 250,000,000 tokens then everyone gets 2IGNIS for every 1 JLRDA and etc. 

This way there is no rush....but no bonuses either for early investors.  However, I think it would be the most fair

yes, this option also works but as you say, there is no bonus. if we want bonus pro-rata is the fairest...

well, maybe Jelurida could try both systems and test which one is the best one to collect funds and give ignis. there are 4 more weeks with icos..
jelurida could try one as you say,another with prorate and decide after that what to do with the final 2
I think a hybrid form of these two options would be the best. Because I would like to buy some tokens in the ICO, but don't have time to focus on the techniques required to get some. However, I wouldn't mind paying a 1 to 1 ratio. And people investing time and effort to acquire tokens at the most attractive price should be rewarded for it. So maybe a fast-track with bonusses and a slow-track with 1 to 1 would be the way to go.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Logan on August 07, 2017, 09:01:25 pm
See https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-11-7 for a release which addresses the transaction priority problem

Thank you very much. Now everyone has the same chance to participate.

This round i had a really good feeling while getting nothing  ;D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jmvarner83 on August 07, 2017, 09:56:40 pm
So instead of setting my clock and waking up in the middle of the night, should I just leave my client window open, have my order placed, and play the lottery?


Sheesh, all this effort for 12500 Ignis =P
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: danp123 on August 07, 2017, 09:59:31 pm
So instead of setting my clock and waking up in the middle of the night, should I just leave my client window open, have my order placed, and play the lottery?


Sheesh, all this effort for 12500 Ignis =P
Or do we have to press the button after every block
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 08, 2017, 12:25:39 am
How I imagined it would have gone is make JLRDA with 750,000,000 tokens and let anyone buy at a rate of 1NXT=1JLRDA.  If they sell out, then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1.5JLRDA token (around the current max ICO price).  If they sell 500,000,000 tokens then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1JLRDA; if they sell 250,000,000 tokens then everyone gets 2IGNIS for every 1 JLRDA and etc. 

This way there is no rush....but no bonuses either for early investors.  However, I think it would be the most fair

yes, this option also works but as you say, there is no bonus. if we want bonus pro-rata is the fairest...

well, maybe Jelurida could try both systems and test which one is the best one to collect funds and give ignis. there are 4 more weeks with icos..
jelurida could try one as you say,another with prorate and decide after that what to do with the final 2
I think a hybrid form of these two options would be the best. Because I would like to buy some tokens in the ICO, but don't have time to focus on the techniques required to get some. However, I wouldn't mind paying a 1 to 1 ratio. And people investing time and effort to acquire tokens at the most attractive price should be rewarded for it. So maybe a fast-track with bonusses and a slow-track with 1 to 1 would be the way to go.

Actually there is a way to do.  Example:
Set an exchange sell order at 1.2JLRDA per NXT for week 1
Cancel what ever is left of that order and set an exchange sell at 1JLRDA per NXT for week 2
Cancel what ever is left of that order and set an exchange sell at 0.8JLRDA per NXT for week 3

After that cancel the order and close the ICO.  Calculate JLRDA holdings sold based on a 500,000,000 IGNIS supply and set that as the conversion for the mainnet launch of IGNIS.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: digicoiner on August 08, 2017, 01:15:00 am
I've updated my client to the latest and submitted my order. Is preference given to when the order was submitted and will I increase my chances of the transaction being accepted if I increase the fee?
Fee affects whether you get into the block if there are more transactions than will fit in it. Once you are in, it's not supposed to affect the ordering.

It makes no difference when the order was submitted. What matters is arrival time at the node, and that depends on how soon the transactions reach your node, how quickly your node reacts, and then how quickly your transaction reaches the next forger. So it's mostly network delays, and it probably helps to be in the same country as the forger and/or the person who makes the offer. Also, phased transactions still have priority over non-phased.

This evening I think the offer happened in block 1428528, and the next 4 blocks have loads of transactions, so there may be some competition. However, the block itself does not look to be full, so network delays are more important. Quite a few winners were not phased transactions, eg 1261545532811507009 . Some phased transactions lost, eg 14736763169909938690. I'm not sure how that's possible.

I suspect from now on it'll mostly be a network speed lottery. The new client effectively means everyone has a bot. They can queue up their transaction hours in advance, and it either gets to the forger quickly enough or it doesn't. I think demand for this ICO is high enough to keep it over-subscribed for its entire run.

Thanks for the explanation.  In the transaction details for the last successful exchanges it shows a "EC Block Height" field with a value which is usually much earlier than block 1428528. What does this mean?  Is this the block when the transaction was first accepted on the network?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: forkedchain on August 08, 2017, 03:28:49 am
Some phased transactions lost, eg 14736763169909938690. I'm not sure how that's possible.
This transaction wasn't approved, so it did not execute.

if phasing actually does give a currencyBuy order priority in a block, id think the way things are now with publish exchange sell being nonphased,  it would hurt more than anything - because then the currencyBuy would go into the block before the publish exchange sell order transactions does, then the phased buy is too early to do any good.

i think.

at least this is my understanding, after seeing block height 1428528 with its published exchange sell transaction.  because in that block there were regular nonphased buy transactions in that block, and they were ordered in the block before the publish exchange sell transaction, and those buy transactions werent filled.


but, if you look at that block, it has phasing transactions mixed in with regular nonphased ones.  but heres the kicker:

the very first transaction in block at height 1428528 is the phased buy authorization, from NXT-DALQ-WDG7-55CB-476X6.  given there are other phased TX's in there after other nonphased TX's, I dont guess that this 1st TX being a phased TX really has anything tdo do with it being 1st in line.  so anyway, he requested 2million JLRDA and his transactionID is 10692460713820667248.  so even though this transaction is in the block *before* the currency' publish exchange sell transaction, NXT-DALQ-WDG7-55CB-476X6's transaction WAS ACCEPTED!.  but not for the full 2million he requested.  hw only got 700K or so.

so who really knows whatrs going on here.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: sva_h4cky0 on August 08, 2017, 07:44:20 am
this is ridiculous, it's not even freaking funny anymore  >:( >:( >:(


just tell me which one is better:


ONE freaking whale grab most/all ignis every single round

OR

MANY small/medium fish grab proportionally ignis every round.


i'm pretty sure right now alot of small fish are disappointed  :-\
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 08, 2017, 08:25:17 am
I'm a small fish, and I got mine yesterday.

It's now more fair than before, but it's now a lottery.

This morning, a whale win on this lottery... this is the game.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: dollabillz on August 08, 2017, 08:41:42 am
I'm a small fish, and I got mine yesterday.

It's now more fair than before, but it's now a lottery.

This morning, a whale win on this lottery... this is the game.

Hey man, can you share steps what you did to buy yesterday ?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 08, 2017, 09:15:19 am
Hey man, can you share steps what you did to buy yesterday ?

Nothing special.
Just installed Nxt 1.11.7 in full node.
Submitted on offer 10 minutes before sell offer.
Keep client open.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Caracalla on August 08, 2017, 10:48:58 am
JLRDA available for sale: 0
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: PotShot-RSA on August 08, 2017, 12:15:08 pm
JLRDA available for sale: 0

With 1.11.7, you can click the "Buy JLRDA" button, even though it shows as 'greyed-out / not available'.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: websioux on August 08, 2017, 12:57:40 pm
How I imagined it would have gone is make JLRDA with 750,000,000 tokens and let anyone buy at a rate of 1NXT=1JLRDA.  If they sell out, then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1.5JLRDA token (around the current max ICO price).  If they sell 500,000,000 tokens then everyone will get 1IGNIS for every 1JLRDA; if they sell 250,000,000 tokens then everyone gets 2IGNIS for every 1 JLRDA and etc. 

This way there is no rush....but no bonuses either for early investors.  However, I think it would be the most fair

Bonuses are not fair, they are arbitrary. What is really not fair is that with no bonuses, you get a lot less visibility.  ;D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: suhtherngirl on August 08, 2017, 02:34:25 pm
I see that NXTer Magazine -- or whoever owns the EasterEggs address -- has been in touch with MAAC the Whale.  Can we expect an exclusive interview soon?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: razkalgr on August 08, 2017, 05:15:58 pm
Hey man, can you share steps what you did to buy yesterday ?

Nothing special.
Just installed Nxt 1.11.7 in full node.
Submitted on offer 10 minutes before sell offer.
Keep client open.
you submitted your offer through "Ignis Token Sale" or through "Monetary System"?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 08, 2017, 05:50:45 pm
you submitted your offer through "Ignis Token Sale" or through "Monetary System"?
through "Ignis Token Sale".
You will see a message saying "Order placed" (or similar, don't remember) but your NXT balance will remain unchanged until the sell offer shows up.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jimboh on August 08, 2017, 07:01:56 pm
As of 8/8/17 still unable to trade my NXT for JLRDA? I have the original version 1.16.17 using light client as i was unable to download the blockchain version for some reason. Question is....do i go to the website and download the new version 1.17 light cllient version and will it write over my existing 1.16? I am assuming the NXT tokens held will stay and my passcode will be the same?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: digicoiner on August 08, 2017, 07:09:23 pm
I put in 15 exchange orders (some with higher fees and some not)  a few minutes before the sale and not one was accepted :(
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Soa on August 08, 2017, 07:12:28 pm
The problem with my 1.11.7 client was appearantly a caching issue.
I cleared the browser cache completely, got the new interface and was able to send an offer (even though I couldn't catch any IGNIS).
What was confusing: The client said 1.11.7 even though it displayed the old interface of 1.11.6.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Amsi on August 08, 2017, 07:14:37 pm
This ICO "method" is the worst ive ever seen.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gcmartinelli on August 08, 2017, 07:14:52 pm
The world is unfair  ;D ;D

   NXT-8HNT-4ZTF-ZXH3-7RU38 not only got a huge chunk of IGNIS so far... it forged the block right before the sale for over 4k NXT

Which leads me to a conclusion... unfortunately whales do have a higher chance on this ICO since they are big stakers and consequently have much higher chances to forge blocks. If your machine is forging the block I believe it is almost guaranteed you will be successful in the sale.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Werum on August 08, 2017, 07:19:45 pm
My nxt node becomes unavailable during the JLRDA tokens sale  :( and pending orders ignored.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Amsi on August 08, 2017, 07:38:24 pm
i have done this "scheduling"  ... now near all my NXT are lost, but i havent receive JLRDA  ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: hob on August 08, 2017, 07:43:49 pm
My nxt node becomes unavailable during the JLRDA tokens sale
Same here, client became completely unresponsive with 100% disk activity from Java.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: kuk on August 08, 2017, 07:51:20 pm
Hey man, can you share steps what you did to buy yesterday ?

Nothing special.
Just installed Nxt 1.11.7 in full node.
Submitted on offer 10 minutes before sell offer.
Keep client open.

Did you download the complete blockchain?
How long does it take to?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 08, 2017, 07:56:04 pm
i have done this "scheduling"  ... now near all my NXT are lost, but i havent receive JLRDA  ??? ??? ??? ???

Check "Your JLRDA balance X" on IGNIS Token Sale page.

Did you download the complete blockchain?
How long does it take to?

I already have the full blockchain. And this is mandatory to use scheduled transaction in 1.11.7.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Amsi on August 08, 2017, 07:57:09 pm
i have done this "scheduling"  ... now near all my NXT are lost, but i havent receive JLRDA  ??? ??? ??? ???

Check "Your JLRDA balance X" on IGNIS Token Sale page.

Did you download the complete blockchain?
How long does it take to?

I already have the full blockchain. And this is mandatory to use scheduled transaction in 1.11.7.

JLRDA balance: 0
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: gcmartinelli on August 08, 2017, 07:59:57 pm
JLRDA balance: 0

are you sure you are seeing your account? maybe you clicked into another one... doesn't hurt to ask :)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 08, 2017, 08:01:00 pm
I put in 15 exchange orders (some with higher fees and some not)  a few minutes before the sale and not one was accepted :(
It looks like 8 accounts succeeded and around 650 failed. This ICO is massively oversubscribed, and the "first come first served" policy means that 99% of people are disappointed each round. The number of people trying is going down. People are giving up.

On the other hand, over 80 accounts have now been successful over the 8 offers. We'll probably have over 100 by the end of the first tranche, in two days. The winning accounts vary in size a lot - one bought just 170.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Amsi on August 08, 2017, 08:04:26 pm
Yeah and it seems i lost near all my nxt with this fucking ico shit.

@gcmartinelli
Iam totally sure, i have opened my NXT Fullnode with my passphrase and it shows me a shit balance in the upper left corner.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 08, 2017, 08:17:26 pm
Yeah and it seems i lost near all my nxt with this fucking ico shit.

@gcmartinelli
Iam totally sure, i have opened my NXT Fullnode with my passphrase and it shows me a shit balance in the upper left corner.

Is it possible to link or PM your NXT address to inspect outgoing transactions ?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 08, 2017, 08:41:07 pm
Is it possible to link or PM your NXT address to inspect outgoing transactions ?

Received in PM.
Your NXT are not lost.

I don't know how you did this, but your transaction seems to be phased (defered) for the next 10000 block.
I'm not a specialist of phased transaction, but your NXT may be locked for the next 7 days  :(
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: forkedchain on August 08, 2017, 08:48:36 pm
how did he set approbval/voting for the phased setup?  its possible that now he can get the transaction approved.  if he can approve it, it of course wont get him any IGNIS at this point, but he would regain access to his NXT.

hopefully he set things up to where he (or someone) can approve
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Caracalla on August 08, 2017, 08:57:52 pm
JLRDA available for sale: 0

With 1.11.7, you can click the "Buy JLRDA" button, even though it shows as 'greyed-out / not available'.

This is what I am doing with 1.11.7, but nothing happens ! I pass the order, it's accepted, but in fact there is no open orders.

Curiously, after 2 or 3 orders for 30000 JLRDA this PM (in Ignis Token Sale), I received 4 JRLDA from the Asset Exchange !
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 08, 2017, 09:02:59 pm
This is what I am doing with 1.11.7, but nothing happens ! I pass the order, it's accepted, but in fact there is no open orders.
This is normal. Your order is keeped in memory and sent only when the sale begins.

Curiously, after 2 or 3 orders for 30000 JLRDA this PM (in Ignis Token Sale), I received 4 JRLDA from the Asset Exchange !

Same.
This is a fake asset.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Brangdon on August 08, 2017, 09:17:48 pm
The world is unfair  ;D ;D

   NXT-8HNT-4ZTF-ZXH3-7RU38 not only got a huge chunk of IGNIS so far... it forged the block right before the sale for over 4k NXT

Which leads me to a conclusion... unfortunately whales do have a higher chance on this ICO since they are big stakers and consequently have much higher chances to forge blocks. If your machine is forging the block I believe it is almost guaranteed you will be successful in the sale.
I suspect it helps if you run a hallmarked node, too. I have been getting into the right block on my attempts, even when that block was small, and this evening I was finally able to buy. I have been running a hallmarked node for a long time, with enough weight that it was usually in the top 5. I'm sure it used to be in the list of default peers, although it isn't for 1.11.7. I suspect I am still in a lot of other nodes' databases, though. That probably helps with my connectivity, meaning fewer hops between my node and the forging node. It may also help if your node has been running a long time.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Amsi on August 08, 2017, 09:32:52 pm
Thanks for your help, how can i get my NXT back?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Muenzpraeger on August 08, 2017, 09:46:12 pm
The world is unfair  ;D ;D

   NXT-8HNT-4ZTF-ZXH3-7RU38 not only got a huge chunk of IGNIS so far... it forged the block right before the sale for over 4k NXT

Which leads me to a conclusion... unfortunately whales do have a higher chance on this ICO since they are big stakers and consequently have much higher chances to forge blocks. If your machine is forging the block I believe it is almost guaranteed you will be successful in the sale.
I suspect it helps if you run a hallmarked node, too. I have been getting into the right block on my attempts, even when that block was small, and this evening I was finally able to buy. I have been running a hallmarked node for a long time, with enough weight that it was usually in the top 5. I'm sure it used to be in the list of default peers, although it isn't for 1.11.7. I suspect I am still in a lot of other nodes' databases, though. That probably helps with my connectivity, meaning fewer hops between my node and the forging node. It may also help if your node has been running a long time.

Can I run 2 hallmarked nodes under the same account, maybe even copy+paste the settings for it or? I run a hallmarked Pi node but it's too slow for this ICO. My desktop is better suited. If I create another hallmark passphrase the old one becomes invalid though, I assume.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: forkedchain on August 08, 2017, 10:15:39 pm
The world is unfair  ;D ;D

   NXT-8HNT-4ZTF-ZXH3-7RU38 not only got a huge chunk of IGNIS so far... it forged the block right before the sale for over 4k NXT

Which leads me to a conclusion... unfortunately whales do have a higher chance on this ICO since they are big stakers and consequently have much higher chances to forge blocks. If your machine is forging the block I believe it is almost guaranteed you will be successful in the sale.
I suspect it helps if you run a hallmarked node, too. I have been getting into the right block on my attempts, even when that block was small, and this evening I was finally able to buy. I have been running a hallmarked node for a long time, with enough weight that it was usually in the top 5. I'm sure it used to be in the list of default peers, although it isn't for 1.11.7. I suspect I am still in a lot of other nodes' databases, though. That probably helps with my connectivity, meaning fewer hops between my node and the forging node. It may also help if your node has been running a long time.

Can I run 2 hallmarked nodes under the same account, maybe even copy+paste the settings for it or? I run a hallmarked Pi node but it's too slow for this ICO. My desktop is better suited. If I create another hallmark passphrase the old one becomes invalid though, I assume.
you can, but the hallmarks on each have to be different, as the hallmark corresponds to IP address or hostname.  you can use the same weight for each though, when creating the hallmark.  use the same weight unless maybe if the performance on the 2 machines differ too much
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: seek4dream on August 08, 2017, 11:06:30 pm
Guys, why trying so hard to get into the ICO while you can get cheap ARDR?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: box1413 on August 08, 2017, 11:08:44 pm
what is considered cheap ardor? 1:1 nxt? how much should ardor be worth u think? 2:1 ?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cromaclear on August 08, 2017, 11:25:33 pm
what is considered cheap ardor? 1:1 nxt? how much should ardor be worth u think? 2:1 ?

more than 1:1
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: timjs1018 on August 08, 2017, 11:29:04 pm
what is considered cheap ardor? 1:1 nxt? how much should ardor be worth u think? 2:1 ?

more than 1:1
I'd certainly hope so. Considering it is already at around 1:1 and the platform hasn't even launched yet.
Ardor has an enormous future. I see no reason why it wouldn't.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: danp123 on August 09, 2017, 04:40:52 am
I'm not sure why Ardor is stuck to NXT at all.

Considering it was at 1:1 at the time of the snapshot of NXT and you got to keep your nxt.  I don't remember the price of NXT crashing after the split, although in theory 1 old nxt before the split should equal 1 nxt after + ardor value.

The value of NXT now is = 1/2 the price of Ignis.  What the value of NXT vs BTC at the time of the ignis snapshot I suppose will relate to the value of ignis.

The value of Ardor now is just the value of Ardor.  The volume is 1/10 the volume of NXT today, so I don't think people are buying or selling this now.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: timjs1018 on August 09, 2017, 04:57:02 am
I'm not sure why Ardor is stuck to NXT at all.

Considering it was at 1:1 at the time of the snapshot of NXT and you got to keep your nxt.  I don't remember the price of NXT crashing after the split, although in theory 1 old nxt before the split should equal 1 nxt after + ardor value.

The value of NXT now is = 1/2 the price of Ignis.  What the value of NXT vs BTC at the time of the ignis snapshot I suppose will relate to the value of ignis.

The value of Ardor now is just the value of Ardor.  The volume is 1/10 the volume of NXT today, so I don't think people are buying or selling this now.
Yes, you're right the volume is 1/10th and the prices stay relatively locked, I'm very curious if anyone has an idea of what mechanism causes that.
NXT has obvious demand right now for the ICO and upcoming snapshot. After the snapshot, who knows what will happen.

As for Ardor, it seems to me that people (short term investors) are generally banking on getting Ignis cheap and dumping on the initial price bubble (that we all know will occur) rather than invest in the more long-term potential of the parent-chain Ardor.

I apologize if I am breaking some forums rules by "speculating", I'm new here. (but not new to cryptos in general)
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Muenzpraeger on August 09, 2017, 06:53:30 am
The world is unfair  ;D ;D

   NXT-8HNT-4ZTF-ZXH3-7RU38 not only got a huge chunk of IGNIS so far... it forged the block right before the sale for over 4k NXT

Which leads me to a conclusion... unfortunately whales do have a higher chance on this ICO since they are big stakers and consequently have much higher chances to forge blocks. If your machine is forging the block I believe it is almost guaranteed you will be successful in the sale.
I suspect it helps if you run a hallmarked node, too. I have been getting into the right block on my attempts, even when that block was small, and this evening I was finally able to buy. I have been running a hallmarked node for a long time, with enough weight that it was usually in the top 5. I'm sure it used to be in the list of default peers, although it isn't for 1.11.7. I suspect I am still in a lot of other nodes' databases, though. That probably helps with my connectivity, meaning fewer hops between my node and the forging node. It may also help if your node has been running a long time.

Can I run 2 hallmarked nodes under the same account, maybe even copy+paste the settings for it or? I run a hallmarked Pi node but it's too slow for this ICO. My desktop is better suited. If I create another hallmark passphrase the old one becomes invalid though, I assume.
you can, but the hallmarks on each have to be different, as the hallmark corresponds to IP address or hostname.  you can use the same weight for each though, when creating the hallmark.  use the same weight unless maybe if the performance on the 2 machines differ too much

Thanks forkedchain. I created a new passphrase. However, the nodes share the same public IP but the Pi announces a DDNS address. Does this count as different or will there be any problems?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: zuqka on August 09, 2017, 07:40:22 am
Am running 3 hallmarked nodes and my nxt.zuqka.info is on top of the default peer list.
Yet no luck
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Muenzpraeger on August 09, 2017, 08:38:54 am
Am running 3 hallmarked nodes and my nxt.zuqka.info is on top of the default peer list.
Yet no luck

A sorrow shared is a sorrow halved  :D
I feel you.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: forkedchain on August 09, 2017, 09:58:12 am
The world is unfair  ;D ;D

   NXT-8HNT-4ZTF-ZXH3-7RU38 not only got a huge chunk of IGNIS so far... it forged the block right before the sale for over 4k NXT

Which leads me to a conclusion... unfortunately whales do have a higher chance on this ICO since they are big stakers and consequently have much higher chances to forge blocks. If your machine is forging the block I believe it is almost guaranteed you will be successful in the sale.
I suspect it helps if you run a hallmarked node, too. I have been getting into the right block on my attempts, even when that block was small, and this evening I was finally able to buy. I have been running a hallmarked node for a long time, with enough weight that it was usually in the top 5. I'm sure it used to be in the list of default peers, although it isn't for 1.11.7. I suspect I am still in a lot of other nodes' databases, though. That probably helps with my connectivity, meaning fewer hops between my node and the forging node. It may also help if your node has been running a long time.

Can I run 2 hallmarked nodes under the same account, maybe even copy+paste the settings for it or? I run a hallmarked Pi node but it's too slow for this ICO. My desktop is better suited. If I create another hallmark passphrase the old one becomes invalid though, I assume.
you can, but the hallmarks on each have to be different, as the hallmark corresponds to IP address or hostname.  you can use the same weight for each though, when creating the hallmark.  use the same weight unless maybe if the performance on the 2 machines differ too much

Thanks forkedchain. I created a new passphrase. However, the nodes share the same public IP but the Pi announces a DDNS address. Does this count as different or will there be any problems?
i assume you have them on different ports?  where one is standard 7674 and the other is something else?  if so, then i believe the hostname field of generate hallmark does support specifying a port.  check the wiki on it
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: cayenne on August 09, 2017, 03:14:10 pm
My new plan: wait until Ignis launches and is available on the exchanges. Then I may buy some at market prices.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: galeki on August 09, 2017, 03:46:06 pm
Current ARDR:NXT almost 1:1.

And NXT:IGNIS is 1:0.4.

That's means 1 IGNIS = 2.5 ARDR.

I think that's unlikely after Ardor mainnet lunch. ;)

Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: ceric35 on August 09, 2017, 04:33:55 pm
That's means 1 IGNIS = 2.5 ARDR.

That's means 1 IGNIS = 0.4 ARDR
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: galeki on August 09, 2017, 05:30:41 pm
That's means 1 IGNIS = 2.5 ARDR.

That's means 1 IGNIS = 0.4 ARDR

You're right.  :D
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: digicoiner on August 09, 2017, 05:51:38 pm
I put in 15 exchange orders (some with higher fees and some not)  a few minutes before the sale and not one was accepted :(
It looks like 8 accounts succeeded and around 650 failed. This ICO is massively oversubscribed, and the "first come first served" policy means that 99% of people are disappointed each round. The number of people trying is going down. People are giving up.

On the other hand, over 80 accounts have now been successful over the 8 offers. We'll probably have over 100 by the end of the first tranche, in two days. The winning accounts vary in size a lot - one bought just 170.

Still having no luck.  Maybe it would have been better if they offered JLRDA as an asset or provided an address to send NXT to (with limits) or all three options.  It might increase the distribution and give us a better chance of grabbing some cheap IGNIS.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Caracalla on August 09, 2017, 07:04:59 pm
JLRDA for sale: 0

Again.

So we have to connect us excatly at 6h45 UTC or 18h45 UTC and hope have luck?
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Werum on August 09, 2017, 07:12:59 pm
fail again
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: neofelis on August 09, 2017, 08:02:09 pm
Think of it as a lottery.  There are a limited number of transactions per block and the JLRDA usually sells out within one block because everybody puts in their bid ahead of time.  The vast majority of people don't get any JLRDA when it becomes available because so many people are entering orders.  Whales can still scoop up alot because they place big orders, but the chances of them getting into a block are the same as yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Caracalla on August 10, 2017, 07:01:17 pm
Definitively imposible to buy JLRDA. I was exactly connected at 18h45 UTC and still 0 JLRDA available for sale and again all of my orders passed in vain. Maybe I missed something but it was my first ICO ever, and the result is NOTHING.  ???
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: dollabillz on August 10, 2017, 07:31:17 pm
This is shit ICO, every day I tried to buy and every day i failed. What waste off time.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: MrV777 on August 10, 2017, 08:32:44 pm
Definitively imposible to buy JLRDA. I was exactly connected at 18h45 UTC and still 0 JLRDA available for sale and again all of my orders passed in vain. Maybe I missed something but it was my first ICO ever, and the result is NOTHING.  ???

You have to put your order in ahead of time using the 1.11.7 client if you want a chance.  They sell out immediately
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jimboh on August 10, 2017, 09:59:16 pm
I re-installed version 1.11.7 but get the message i need a full node and it will not accept my order....tried reinstall again and it gives me 2 options install light client or testnet? Please advise.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: hob on August 10, 2017, 10:33:58 pm
i need a full node
See https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-11-7/msg235421/#msg235421
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: rgmartin0727 on August 11, 2017, 12:33:41 pm
Question unrelated to the rest of the thread:

Are larger transactions preferred by the network, or is it totally random? I'm asking because I'm a smaller investor, only looking to purchase a little bit of IGNIS, and all of the transactions I've seen posted have been for several thousand.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: jimboh on August 11, 2017, 01:02:43 pm
What a disappointing pre sale. Whale traders acquired just about all tokens sold. I can only hope the next round at .55 per token is available to me. If not it would appear i am stuck with NXT tokens that continue to drop in price from my buy on 8-4-17 at .1635
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: forkedchain on August 11, 2017, 02:14:05 pm
Question unrelated to the rest of the thread:

Are larger transactions preferred by the network, or is it totally random? I'm asking because I'm a smaller investor, only looking to purchase a little bit of IGNIS, and all of the transactions I've seen posted have been for several thousand.

Thank you!
size of order/transfer has zero bearing.  its all about the time the transaction was first seen by the node that forges the block as the 1st factor.  if there are too many transactions to fit in the block, then out of that list of ordered transactions it includes only those transactions so as to maximize forging fees.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: neofelis on August 11, 2017, 03:27:05 pm
What a disappointing pre sale. Whale traders acquired just about all tokens sold. I can only hope the next round at .55 per token is available to me. If not it would appear i am stuck with NXT tokens that continue to drop in price from my buy on 8-4-17 at .1635

Actually, alot of people who aren't whales are getting IGNIS now with the upgraded client.  Sure, a smart whale took the first couple of rounds but now you have the same chance everybody else does.  Put in an order for all you want and just keep updating it for each round.  Costs you 1 nxt (about 13 cents) which is pretty cheap.  And don't fret if you don't get any.  At the minimum, you'll get .5 IGNIS/NXT you own.  Nobody has any advantage over anybody else here.  It is the fairest ICO I've seen.  No special favors for freinds of the Devs or presale favors.  There are alot more rounds left and if you stick with it, I'm sure you'll get some of the discounted INGIS.  There are after all, 500M IGNIS available.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: tazinv on August 11, 2017, 03:59:15 pm
It is the fairest ICO I've seen.  No special favors for freinds of the Devs or presale favors.
LOL. And this is why 30% of tokens of the first round went to the same person? Why is it even called crowdsale then? Also, right now JLRDA/NXT is 0.4, but in the last round of sale it would be 1.4, and then even 2. Will it become 3.5 and 5 times better respectively by the time of the following sale round or what is the reason in such a crazy price increase? And what should other people do who got trapped with worthless NXT tokens? This is a perfect example of why these ICOs must be regulated.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: neofelis on August 12, 2017, 05:11:03 am
I mentioned why the first whale got all those tokens in my last post.  That problem has been fixed.  Regulation hurts everybody, don't be fooled thinking the government can fix anything.  As the ICO is going now, it is fair.  I haven't gotten any IGNIS yet either but lots of different people have, the distribution will be as broad as it can be. 

I might have changed it by offering all the IGNIS at once and just selling them until they were gone at whatever price Jelurida wanted.  The max sales per block would've been about 255.  It probably would've sold out in about an hour and then we'd be done.  Whales would've had the same opportunity to buy as you or I.  There is no whale that could've afforded to buy them all or even come close. 

Sorry your NXT are dropping in price.  Just hold onto them and you'll get IGNIS which will be worth a lot more than NXT once ARDOR goes live, so don't give up. 
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: timjs1018 on August 12, 2017, 11:55:05 am
I mentioned why the first whale got all those tokens in my last post.  That problem has been fixed.  Regulation hurts everybody, don't be fooled thinking the government can fix anything.  As the ICO is going now, it is fair.  I haven't gotten any IGNIS yet either but lots of different people have, the distribution will be as broad as it can be. 

I might have changed it by offering all the IGNIS at once and just selling them until they were gone at whatever price Jelurida wanted.  The max sales per block would've been about 255.  It probably would've sold out in about an hour and then we'd be done.  Whales would've had the same opportunity to buy as you or I.  There is no whale that could've afforded to buy them all or even come close. 

Sorry your NXT are dropping in price.  Just hold onto them and you'll get IGNIS which will be worth a lot more than NXT once ARDOR goes live, so don't give up.
Selling them all at once would be a bad idea for Jelurida.
Stretching the ICO over months give the otherwise useless NXT a purpose, for people to hoard for the snapshot.
This keeps the demand for NXT decently high enough during the months of the ICO to allow Jelurida to dump their NXT they are receiving at the highest price. The biggest losers in this game are the NXT holders, after the snapshot.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Andre on August 13, 2017, 03:03:08 am
So my NXT that I bought at .oo5 is at this moment worth .115 the ardor I got for holding NXT is worth .135 the NXT i hold through the Ignis snapshot may become worthless, witch I seriously doubt, but I will still be way ahead. thanks guys! I think your crowdsale is new cutting edge and I love that it was build on NXT.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: danisapfirov on August 14, 2017, 09:52:06 am
Bought few JLRDA fake assets. Very disappointed about ICO.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: neofelis on August 14, 2017, 06:46:41 pm
Caveat emptor
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: danp123 on August 14, 2017, 06:50:51 pm
Bought few JLRDA fake assets. Very disappointed about ICO.

Allowing fake assets is ultimately a good thing, has always existed in NXT.  If that's the reason you don't like the ICO, that's not a good reason.  The devs even made an awesome change to the client, just so people would be buying the correct asset.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: tatanuk on August 14, 2017, 10:32:11 pm
So, Ignis sale, do I just submit a buy order now via 1.11.7 and these will get pushed out once the buy is live or do we need to wait for the new round to start before people can send in orders?

I am a little confused because the UI makes it seem like you can order already.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Sebastien256 on August 14, 2017, 10:49:02 pm
So, Ignis sale, do I just submit a buy order now via 1.11.7 and these will get pushed out once the buy is live or do we need to wait for the new round to start before people can send in orders?

I am a little confused because the UI makes it seem like you can order already.

Wait 10 minutes before the round start and leave the wallet open till the offer is live and completed. This is need to be repeat every round if you do not get any or the amount you ask for.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: tatanuk on August 14, 2017, 10:59:58 pm
Thanks for the info, so just to confirm,
I push out an order before the round starts, leave the wallet open to keep it in memory, once the round starts it will pick up the order, if it failed I try again next round.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Sebastien256 on August 14, 2017, 11:51:45 pm
Thanks for the info, so just to confirm,
I push out an order before the round starts, leave the wallet open to keep it in memory, once the round starts it will pick up the order, if it failed I try again next round.

Yes, you got it. Just to be sure, you need to put the order using the IGNIS TOKEN SALE page in the wallet.

If it failed it is because, in the end, the demand is greater than the offer and your transaction did not reach the forger before the other transactions.
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: tatanuk on August 15, 2017, 12:03:51 am
Yes, you got it. Just to be sure, you need to put the order using the IGNIS TOKEN SALE page in the wallet.

If it failed it is because, in the end, the demand is greater than the offer and your transaction did not reach the forger before the other transactions.

Appreciated
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: silverblade07 on August 15, 2017, 10:10:22 am
Can I buy the tokens on the public node that I host?

192.210.160.15:7876
Title: Re: Ignis Token Sale Progress
Post by: Right.Here on August 21, 2017, 04:21:47 pm
It's too quiet in the arena  ???
but is a good thing for the community because now whales and sharks from outside have returned to their exchanges, the local community members will have more chances to have some coins before they Learn and know that the problem has been solved and things are 100% operational for the next rounds  :D

If jelurida maintains this radio silence this will going to be cool for us  8)
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