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Latest Nxt Client 1.11.7 - NEW RELEASE: Ardor 2.0.3e TestNet IS LAUNCHED!

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Author Topic: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...  (Read 2843 times)

lurker10

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If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 01, 2017, 10:46:23 am

...and your investment also dies.

When the total forging stake gets too low, security of the network is decreased, it becomes vulnerable to 51% attacks.

The total forging stake has dropped to 270 million of the total supply of NXT coins. This is an all time low. Please start forging to protect your investment.
Run a node - win a prize! "Lucky node" project jar: NXT-8F28-EDVE-LPPX-HY4E7

shugo

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 01, 2017, 11:01:57 am

I stopped forging because my Raspi always stops the node/forging after 2-3 days

I will reinstall from scratch and try it again.

MrV777

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 01, 2017, 12:13:57 pm

If you want to give me some more NXT, I'll forge with more  ;D
NXT: NXT-BK2J-ZMY4-93UY-8EM9V
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galeki

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 01, 2017, 12:23:52 pm

I guess a lot NXT move to exchanges during this altercoins boom.

And the rewards still seems low unless we pump 1 NXT to 1$. :)

ThomasVeil

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 02, 2017, 09:08:02 am

Do we actually have a document somewhere who explains "forging for noobs" basically? Just the steps how to go about it.
Was also looking for pools the other day, since a user asked about it at Bitcointalk... but it's hard to find currently active pools.
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websioux

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 02, 2017, 01:33:58 pm

Exchanges should forge aren't they ?
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lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 02, 2017, 04:23:14 pm

Here is a forging pool run by a known community member, he's been running it for a few years:
http://198.211.103.222/howto.html

How to lease NXT balance to the forging pool:
https://nxtwiki.org/wiki/Account_Leasing

Please do your part in helping to strengthen the Nxt network. You help your investment doing it.
Run a node - win a prize! "Lucky node" project jar: NXT-8F28-EDVE-LPPX-HY4E7

qq2536007339

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 03, 2017, 12:16:50 am

I hope core dev can increase lease period longer,for small amount holder,lease is their best choice,but at current forging yield,you need at least 5K to be just break even at forging pool.
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farl4bit

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 03, 2017, 07:17:53 am

Forging for life!  :-*

websioux

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 03, 2017, 08:49:59 am

Couldn't we have a "stop leasing" command hence very large max deadline ?
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Brangdon

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 03, 2017, 04:46:41 pm

Couldn't we have a "stop leasing" command hence very large max deadline ?
There is a security concern. If someone got over 50% of blocks by leasing, they would control which transactions got processed, and could reject any transactions which transferred forging power away from their pool. Having leases expire means the pool would lose its forging power eventually anyway. Knowing that hopefully deters people from bothering to try. This concern argues for short leases, and convenience argues for long leases. The current lease time is a trade-off.
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apenzl

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 03, 2017, 11:40:02 pm

Nxter Magazine / NXTER.ORG's forging node is nrs.nxter.org.

By leasing your balance to us @ alias nxthub1 (acct NXT-NYJW-6M4F-6LG2-76FR5), you support the Nxt network PLUS our work.  :)

It will cost you 1 NXT.

Click on your balance in the Nxt Client
> Click Account Leasing
> Click Lease your balance to another account
> Enter account ID or account alias (nxthub1). Choose max period (default).
Lease.

Please consider doing so. OR forge with your own account. Thanks.

forkedchain

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 02:34:24 am

Here is a forging pool run by a known community member, he's been running it for a few years:
http://198.211.103.222/howto.html

How to lease NXT balance to the forging pool:
https://nxtwiki.org/wiki/Account_Leasing

Please do your part in helping to strengthen the Nxt network. You help your investment doing it.

thanks for the plug.  ill bump this topic.  my pool has been wildly successful and I have a tracking system built for it at that webpage you referenced.  payouts are initiated by an AM message to the pool forging account, and are handled automatically.  Our current pooled forging power is 14082973 so we generate multiple blocks per day.  a few weeks abo we even snagged a monetary system creation block, that was woth like 15000 in NXT fees that pool members split based on their % of total forging power.

Im pleased to say I will be ready with the Ardor forging pool.  Its on the testnet blockchain now at http://theardorpool.dynu.net and its 100% except for the payout logic I need to build.


after I first saw this post, I went to bitcointalk to try to advertise, I guess maybe we should see if we can get those threads some traffic?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1996847.msg19884500#msg19884500
and
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1996842.msg19884419#msg19884419

« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 02:49:52 am by forkedchain »
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farl4bit

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 09:53:44 am

neofelis

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 03:14:51 pm

51% attack?  Are we still worried about that?  Let's see....to get 51%, a malicious actor would have to buy up a LOT of NXT, driving the price super high only to destroy his own investment.  I don't see that happening....ever.

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 03:53:14 pm

51% attack?  Are we still worried about that?  Let's see....to get 51%, a malicious actor would have to buy up a LOT of NXT, driving the price super high only to destroy his own investment.  I don't see that happening....ever.

Yes, we're still worried.

The bear market which lasted almost 3 years gave many opportunities to buy very cheap NXT, who knows if someone was buying hundreds of millions and is preparing an attack when their stake becomes greater than the total forging stake, the latter has been going down to reach all time low this month. The attack would have the most (dramatic) effect on the date of Ardor launch, the attacker would be in possession of a lot of Ardor as well, and could attack both networks at the same time.

The reason to destroy can be: a) non economic (attacker's vested interest is in fiat, possibly limitless fiat); b) economic in case the attacker wants to destroy NXT to protect their investment in other crypto with which NXT is in competition (attacker doesn't lose anything because their investment in other crypto grows up if NXT fails).

To protect against this threat every NXT holder and their mother must forge. There is no other way in Nxt as a proof-of-stake system.
Run a node - win a prize! "Lucky node" project jar: NXT-8F28-EDVE-LPPX-HY4E7

shugo

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 04:30:56 pm

Does it make sense if I run two nodes instead of one with same amount of NXT, just splitted? Would that secure the network more than just with one node?

As I understand it, the amount of NXT (PoS) and not the amount of nodes is securing the network, right?

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 04:40:39 pm

Does it make sense if I run two nodes instead of one with same amount of NXT, just splitted? Would that secure the network more than just with one node?

As I understand it, the amount of NXT (PoS) and not the amount of nodes is securing the network, right?

There is no additional benefit in doing this for the total forging stake.
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farl4bit

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 06:12:24 pm

Forging power is raised to 360 Million. Not by me btw.  ;D

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 06:55:47 pm

Forging power is raised to 360 Million. Not by me btw.  ;D

https://nxtportal.org/monitor/
274 million, I think they show the average of 10'000 blocks.
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Jose

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 08:42:38 pm

Does it make sense if I run two nodes instead of one with same amount of NXT, just splitted? Would that secure the network more than just with one node?

As I understand it, the amount of NXT (PoS) and not the amount of nodes is securing the network, right?

There is no additional benefit in doing this for the total forging stake.

I might be wrong, but maybe two nodes would be better than just one with the same overall amount of NXT in case someone were trying to attack the network by shutting down legit nodes...

Jose

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 08:46:33 pm

51% attack?  Are we still worried about that?  Let's see....to get 51%, a malicious actor would have to buy up a LOT of NXT, driving the price super high only to destroy his own investment.  I don't see that happening....ever.

Yes, we're still worried.

The bear market which lasted almost 3 years gave many opportunities to buy very cheap NXT, who knows if someone was buying hundreds of millions and is preparing an attack when their stake becomes greater than the total forging stake, the latter has been going down to reach all time low this month. The attack would have the most (dramatic) effect on the date of Ardor launch, the attacker would be in possession of a lot of Ardor as well, and could attack both networks at the same time.

The reason to destroy can be: a) non economic (attacker's vested interest is in fiat, possibly limitless fiat); b) economic in case the attacker wants to destroy NXT to protect their investment in other crypto with which NXT is in competition (attacker doesn't lose anything because their investment in other crypto grows up if NXT fails).

To protect against this threat every NXT holder and their mother must forge. There is no other way in Nxt as a proof-of-stake system.

In addition, an exchange with hundreds of millions of NXT in it could be hacked. It wouldn't be the first time an exchange gets hacked, would it? :D https://mynxt.info/accounts/
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 06:24:38 am by Jose »

Megalodon

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 04, 2017, 10:55:36 pm

...and your investment also dies.

When the total forging stake gets too low, security of the network is decreased, it becomes vulnerable to 51% attacks.

The total forging stake has dropped to 270 million of the total supply of NXT coins. This is an all time low. Please start forging to protect your investment.

It is precisely for this reason that I initiated the Forging Bounty back in June 28, 2016.
After running it for over a year and distributing almost 2 million NXT, the result has been disappointing. Instead of seeing an increase, we get a decrease in total forging power. Obviously, this incentive does not work. Hence, I'm cancelling this bounty program.

However, the Lucky Node program run by Lurker10 will continue to be funded until further notice.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 11:01:08 pm by Megalodon »
Help secure the Nxt blockchain by forging with your NXT and be in the game to win part of the 5M NXT forging bounty!

qq2536007339

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 12:01:31 am

...and your investment also dies.

When the total forging stake gets too low, security of the network is decreased, it becomes vulnerable to 51% attacks.

The total forging stake has dropped to 270 million of the total supply of NXT coins. This is an all time low. Please start forging to protect your investment.

It is precisely for this reason that I initiated the Forging Bounty back in June 28, 2016.
After running it for over a year and distributing almost 2 million NXT, the result has been disappointing. Instead of seeing an increase, we get a decrease in total forging power. Obviously, this incentive does not work. Hence, I'm cancelling this bounty program.

However, the Lucky Node program run by Lurker10 will continue to be funded until further notice.

In past few month,price has been increased a lot,forging revenue can't compare to that.Not sure if you notice,exchange accounts already been the most rich accounts,and they all not forging.If fact,I think Poloniex can start 51% attact now,if they want.

NXT-NEQW-Q7UK-MUNN-B2L4P and NXT-253H-ESRL-K87C-4R9FG all belong to Poloniex,total amount is over 220M,and we only have 270M forging,so it's little scare to think about it.

But look at the bright side,even forging power is little down,node is increased a lot.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 12:04:50 am by qq2536007339 »
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Blue7

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 12:55:13 am

This is easy. Set up Rasberry farm, nxt cloud mine .... You could even have an ancillary business much like bit club. Members sign up from an NXT approved operation. Then they have the full client which is where the real value is for most... A trading platform, eBay, voting, messages, it is a creative persons full colour piano Lamborghini...

I expect the reward to be paid after a message.... Time stamp noted.

Blue7

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 03:50:52 am

I ordered a Vpn using a Linux server.... Is this all I had to do? It looks like I am forging. I still can't attach the public key... I have done transactions. This is through the web wallet client, it is outdated but is working. It should be easy...

Will keep playing around, this is NOT why I came here, I came to sell products, services and trade. I don't know If I can do that yet. Now I have to learn what a vpn Vps do..

As I write this forging light is green... It is like 12$ for the month. Would this be a net loss on forging.... Will let u know

Jose

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 06:36:38 am

...The total forging stake has dropped to 270 million of the total supply of NXT coins. This is an all time low. Please start forging to protect your investment.
It is precisely for this reason that I initiated the Forging Bounty back in June 28, 2016.
After running it for over a year and distributing almost 2 million NXT, the result has been disappointing. Instead of seeing an increase, we get a decrease in total forging power. Obviously, this incentive does not work. Hence, I'm cancelling this bounty program.

However, the Lucky Node program run by Lurker10 will continue to be funded until further notice.
I can see your point. It's your decision and, of course, I respect it. And somehow I agree with it. I really appreciate all your efforts and setting up this bounty program. I really think that many people who wasn't forging back then started doing it because of your incentives ;) Who knows what the forging power would be nowadays if it weren't for your bounty program. So thank you very much Megalodon!!! :) :) :)

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 06:40:28 am

...and your investment also dies.

When the total forging stake gets too low, security of the network is decreased, it becomes vulnerable to 51% attacks.

The total forging stake has dropped to 270 million of the total supply of NXT coins. This is an all time low. Please start forging to protect your investment.

It is precisely for this reason that I initiated the Forging Bounty back in June 28, 2016.
After running it for over a year and distributing almost 2 million NXT, the result has been disappointing. Instead of seeing an increase, we get a decrease in total forging power. Obviously, this incentive does not work. Hence, I'm cancelling this bounty program.

However, the Lucky Node program run by Lurker10 will continue to be funded until further notice.

Thank you Megalodon.

I remember proposing giving special rewards in the new Ardor platform to Nxt forgers, but that proposal didn't go well. This sad state of affairs wouldn't be so sad if there was additional incentive to forge.

It is still possible for developers to assign some portion of IGNIS from the 50% ICO'ed IGNIS to Nxt forgers according to the number of blocks they forged in the last month before Ardor is launched, without breaking any social contract. This incentive could help undo laziness of new users and make them learn to run nodes and to forge.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 06:45:15 am by lurker10 »
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farl4bit

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 10:06:54 am

Forging power is raised to 360 Million. Not by me btw.  ;D

https://nxtportal.org/monitor/
274 million, I think they show the average of 10'000 blocks.

I thought Nxtportal wasn't reliable anymore. Look at https://www.mynxt.info/forging_calculator.php

...and your investment also dies.

When the total forging stake gets too low, security of the network is decreased, it becomes vulnerable to 51% attacks.

The total forging stake has dropped to 270 million of the total supply of NXT coins. This is an all time low. Please start forging to protect your investment.

It is precisely for this reason that I initiated the Forging Bounty back in June 28, 2016.
After running it for over a year and distributing almost 2 million NXT, the result has been disappointing. Instead of seeing an increase, we get a decrease in total forging power. Obviously, this incentive does not work. Hence, I'm cancelling this bounty program.

However, the Lucky Node program run by Lurker10 will continue to be funded until further notice.

Sad to see you stop the bounty program. I think the people who are forging already forged even before the bounty program. We could make a new announcement of your bounty program with big sharks and big numbers. Nxt has more attention than it had a year ago. Would that convince you to continue the program?

Thanks again for your support. much appreciated. Because of your bounties I have 12 nodes running now.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 10:11:23 am by farl4bit »

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 11:25:01 am

I thought Nxtportal wasn't reliable anymore. Look at https://www.mynxt.info/forging_calculator.php

I think they are reliable, maybe mynxt.info uses a different time span?
I ran a script to check the number of forgers, the results are consistent with what nxtportal has.
If there was a surge in forging power in the last few hours that mynxt.info takes into account, this will show in nxtportal stats in about a week.
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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 11:55:56 am

What will the forging fees be when Ardor is the main currency? Is it 1 ARDR just as it is now 1 NXT? What if the price of ARDR goes very high?

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 12:17:08 pm

What will the forging fees be when Ardor is the main currency? Is it 1 ARDR just as it is now 1 NXT? What if the price of ARDR goes very high?

In the Ardor chain the only functions are send ardor (costs 10 Ardor) and lease balance, this chain isn't prunable, this is the justification for high fees to keep the chain small. I hope the lease balance fee is kept small to encourage forging. All the fees can change on the mainnet from what they are temporary set to now on the testnet. If the price goes very high which is a good problem to have, users will make fewer transactions on the Ardor chain, this chain is for security of the network only, Ardor can be viewed as a network security token. You only need to pay a fee to deposit into your account and optionally to lease balance once every few weeks to start forging. It makes no sense to pay someone for something with Ardor. That's what child chains are for.

IGNIS and other child chain tokens can be viewed as currency, their fees start from 0 if a bundler is ready to subsidize this free transaction.
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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 02:36:23 pm

yes, something needs to be done to encourage forging.  we are fighting against human nature here (laziness, inverse tragedy of the commons, etc)   it looks like tezos and their noldilutionary inflation model was set up to fight this.

as brilliant as NXT is, I wish they could address this problem in Ardor.
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lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 02:53:04 pm

100 million out of the 500 million IGNIS share that is to be ICO'ed, distributed to Ardor forgers over 5-10 years could go a long way to provide additional forging incentives. Just saying :)
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Megalodon

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 03:15:21 pm


.... I think the people who are forging already forged even before the bounty program.

Exactly! That's why I stopped the bounty because it has failed to incentivise new/smaller forgers.

... We could make a new announcement of your bounty program with big sharks and big numbers. Nxt has more attention than it had a year ago. Would that convince you to continue the program?

No. We did that at the launch of the program, and the news was even picked up by several news outlets:-
“The Forging Bounty Lottery campaign” will pay 5 million in rewards to forgers and Nxt nodes
Ardor Launch Promoted With 5 million NXT Reward
Crypto Investor Offers $150,000 NXT Bounty To Launch Ardor Blockchain Platform
Ardor blockchain launch to get a shot in the arm with $150,000 bounty
Nxt’s New Ardor Blockchain Mysterious Member Launches $150,000 bounty
(At its peak, that bounty was worth over $1.2 million).

Although Nxt is more well known now, most of the newcomers are not users - just speculators who leave their Nxt at exchanges. So, if we make another "big" announcement, I doubt it will change the situation. For speculators, gains from trading far outweigh gains from forging, no matter how big the bounty.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

I believe we have to address the underlying reason(s) why interest in forging is waning. Many suggestions/comments have been made about improving ease of forging/leasing, client UI & other incentives, but they rank low on the priority list of devs, if they get there at all. Until that changes, I doubt this bounty program will help much.

Consider this:

In the early days, whales hold the bulk of Nxt but were actively forging. People complained about poor distribution.
Over time, the distribution has improved considerably, but most new/smaller stakeholders are not forging. Now, imagine the situation where Mr.47 and a handful of remaining whales' forging stake are distributed to say 1,000 new users holding 100,000 Nxt each. If nothing changes, what do you think will be the active forging power?

We are at the brink of launching Ardor, whose main function is to provide blockchain security for all child chains. If the fundamental issues of forging is not addressed, how are we to achieve our goals? Probably the devs know something we don't.
Help secure the Nxt blockchain by forging with your NXT and be in the game to win part of the 5M NXT forging bounty!

starik69

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 05:07:49 pm

Is there any sence to propose some exchanges to forge with their wallets? ???
Forge for themsrelves, not giving their clients forged NXT. :P
Then people, who will see that they are loosing forging income, will withdraw NXT from exchanges and start to forge? ::)
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MrV777

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 05:29:57 pm

Is there any sence to propose some exchanges to forge with their wallets? ???
Forge for themsrelves, not giving their clients forged NXT. :P
Then people, who will see that they are loosing forging income, will withdraw NXT from exchanges and start to forge? ::)

It would be really great if exchanges just leased their big balances to pools for a community fund
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forkedchain

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 05, 2017, 06:44:38 pm

but if poloniex leased out, then their leasor would be able to generate 51% attack, no?  im still not quite sure what a 51% attack in PoS looks like.  bersides, i though NXT was OK up until a 90% attack???

but i just dont see it happening, for exchanges to lease out.  at least the whole amount.  it would be in the exchanges best interest to either forge themselves  or lease out *some* portion, because:

exchanges want to make $.  forging will do this some more and leasing out will do this some more.  but if an exchange were to pull off some attack, the coins utility and value would crash, thus taking away $ making potential from the exchange in trading fees, of which they get TONS more from than they would by forging/leasing.  but if they dont forge or lease out, it could all come crashing down for NXT.

for that reason, i doubt an exchange would lease all their forging power out.  it would give external party potential to pull off some attack and mess up the exchanges potential trading moneymaking.

but for sure, it would be in their best interest for each one to lease some partial amoubnt out to *somewhere*
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 07:04:10 pm by forkedchain »
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ThomasVeil

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 06, 2017, 05:21:15 am

Well, I started forging because of the bounty. So it did help - who knows how bad it would be without it. Thanks a lot (also for the lucky node lottery)!

But it was a lot of work setting up the node. I think it was about 8 hours for a cloud-server, all things considered. And I have to keep up maintenance (renewing lease, updating the Nxt-software). If you never used Linux and servers, then the learning curve is steep. And I'm not even a computer-noob. People won't have the motivation to put this effort in for Nxt, nor would most even have the time if they wanted to. Nevermind that I also have running costs now that exceed the forging rewards.

Even with the lotteries the rewards are way to low to make it worth the effort for small users. It is actually rational to rather use all that time and effort to research/invest other crypto currencies - the investment/payout ratio would be higher. We have to cope with the fact that the crypto space is crowded - and attention is the actual most scarce and valuable resource.

but if poloniex leased out, then their leasor would be able to generate 51% attack, no?

So Polo ain't forging at all? Well that would explain a big part of the issue. Most small buyers won't bother getting the real wallet. Any bigger buyers won't even be able to get their crypto out of there.

Quote
  im still not quite sure what a 51% attack in PoS looks like.  bersides, i though NXT was OK up until a 90% attack???

90% was with transparent forging. Which AFAIK was never fully implemented (only bits and pieces).

The argument about "protect your investment" is the stronger one compared to fees. We should be able to make that clear to Polo also. The effort it would take them to lease is negligible compared to the risk they create.
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galeki

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 06, 2017, 03:22:13 pm

Instead giving NXT to hallmark nodes in a lottery way, why not setup a real lottery?

Like 10 NXT a ticket, to win 100 or 1000 or 10000 NXT. Than community just use those collected NXT to setup and maintain more nodes.

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 06, 2017, 10:23:52 pm

I'm forging again, only because the price of alts went back up and I got interested again.  I was forging in 2014 and stopped probably in 2015 or 2016 cus I was just sorta busy and all alt coins were down.
Also, for all the assets I didn't see much going on there except the same 100-500 people investing in temporary mining projects that payed dividends.

I stay with NXT because I like the concept better than ETH.  Maybe other people who used to forge like ETH better, I don't know.  I think if you have good ICOs in the future people will run the wallet more to forge.
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Jake-R

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 09, 2017, 05:49:00 pm

I will be forging in about 3 hours when I hit 1440 confirmations. Do I need to make an outgoing transaction before forging will start? Can someone PM me an address I can send 1 Nxt to?

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 09, 2017, 06:01:46 pm

I will be forging in about 3 hours when I hit 1440 confirmations. Do I need to make an outgoing transaction before forging will start? Can someone PM me an address I can send 1 Nxt to?

Send to yourself, that'll do.
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Jake-R

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 09, 2017, 08:07:29 pm

Send to yourself, that'll do.
Thank you! I guess I need to wait for 1440 confirmations of that transaction as well.

Does having more Nxt in your wallet increase the odds of forging?

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 09, 2017, 08:34:46 pm

Quote

Does having more Nxt in your wallet increase the odds of forging?

Yes it does. NXT is PoS (Proof of Stake)

Riker

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 11, 2017, 08:13:07 am

First I would like to personally thank Megalodon for the 5M NXT bounty program which in my view, has contributed immensely to NXT.
This should not be taken for granted, most whales gave 0 contribution to the NXT community and this forging bounty was a very generous offer.

Regarding:

Quote
I believe we have to address the underlying reason(s) why interest in forging is waning. Many suggestions/comments have been made about improving ease of forging/leasing, client UI & other incentives, but they rank low on the priority list of devs, if they get there at all. Until that changes, I doubt this bounty program will help much.

It's true that this year our main focus has been on Ardor development, but rest assured we view forging as a critical functionality.
From technical stand point, what can we improve? Especially certain UI issues can be addressed relatively easily if someone prepares a prioritized list of tasks.
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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 11, 2017, 09:04:53 am

To make it easier :
pool plugin ?
:7876/pool <- instructions on how to lease forge with us, set up fund returns and get alert to renew lease (lease forge with message)
:7876/plugin <- choose from available community pools (so you send your lease forge, with the right message by filling html form)

Then any forging node can be pool

But for selfish minds, only an increase of the flow of transactions can make forging "worth it" because of a visible lost return. Today the return is too small to even read about it.

Speculation looks like a great universal crowdfunding ressource but speculators do not care a shit about what they speculate on. Only real intensive usage can help.

 
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forkedchain

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 11, 2017, 11:57:40 pm

First I would like to personally thank Megalodon for the 5M NXT bounty program which in my view, has contributed immensely to NXT.
This should not be taken for granted, most whales gave 0 contribution to the NXT community and this forging bounty was a very generous offer.

Regarding:

Quote
I believe we have to address the underlying reason(s) why interest in forging is waning. Many suggestions/comments have been made about improving ease of forging/leasing, client UI & other incentives, but they rank low on the priority list of devs, if they get there at all. Until that changes, I doubt this bounty program will help much.

It's true that this year our main focus has been on Ardor development, but rest assured we view forging as a critical functionality.
From technical stand point, what can we improve? Especially certain UI issues can be addressed relatively easily if someone prepares a prioritized list of tasks.
would it be a bad idea to make it cheaper for a pool to pay out to lessees? or cheaper to send a lease?

I understand the goal of setting up consensus to make sendMoney in Ardor a fairly expensive process, but maybe consensus could allow 1 payment at reduced fee if: payment was from a pool, to a lessor/EXlessor, and was within some X number of blocks after lease expires?  something like that would promote leasing, but not quite sure about just general forging.

I guess at this point its just too late to set up a quasi-non-dilutionary inflation system whereby actual new Ardor (say some X% inflation rate per year) is created and distributed to those who forged blocks, split up in some percent?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:04:34 am by forkedchain »
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lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 18, 2017, 06:19:15 am

A small improvement has happened, the total forging stake went from 274 to 291 million from the time this thread was submitted.  How about making a goal to reach 350 million by October? It is doable, it used to be at that number last year.

Ardor ICO must not be disturbed by any threats, which requires solid network security. Start forging if you have been lazy until now, it is for your own benefit as a NXT/Ardor investor.
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shugo

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 18, 2017, 06:59:18 am

A small improvement has happened, the total forging stake went from 274 to 291 million from the time this thread was submitted.  How about making a goal to reach 350 million by October? It is doable, it used to be at that number last year.


Hm... isn't that almost impossible? People will sell NXT for JLRDA in August, so less NXT forging, right?

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 18, 2017, 08:28:54 am

A small improvement has happened, the total forging stake went from 274 to 291 million from the time this thread was submitted.  How about making a goal to reach 350 million by October? It is doable, it used to be at that number last year.


Hm... isn't that almost impossible? People will sell NXT for JLRDA in August, so less NXT forging, right?

Some people are going to buy all these NXT coins, hopefully they will forge. This effort is minimal compared to physical POW mining and they protect their own wealth when they forge.

Besides, it is going to be a problem for Jelurida to sell so much NXT over 2 months and not tank the price well below 1000 satoshi.
Idk if their intention is to sell everything in 2 months or not, but it's a good thing that a substantial stake will go to them, they understand, like nobody, the need to forge to secure the platform.

I think 350 million forging stake by October is certainly possible. After all, the successful launch of Ardor depends on proper and safe functioning of Nxt through the end of October.
Even after Ardor is launched, Nxt can't simply fade away and let die, because it will prove unviability of the 100% fixed supply PoS concept, so Nxt users must forge IF they hope to get something out of their Ardor investment.

Frankly, the fixed supply 100% PoS is a bit flawed as we can see and personally I'd prefer to see 1-2% yearly inflation and not mind that my holdings are slightly diluted if this helps to secure the network giving more motivation to forgers. But we have this Nxt maximalism here in the community that fixed supply is the best thing since sliced bread and no thing should be changed. We'll see how it all pans out.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 08:32:15 am by lurker10 »
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Jake-R

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 18, 2017, 02:36:17 pm

I will be here, Forging and ready to buy all that cheap Nxt.

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 19, 2017, 07:23:01 pm

Waiting to hit 1440 blocks , then forging, but i want to scoop up IGNIS for 0.40  NXT
And wil need my NXT for it.

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 19, 2017, 09:21:29 pm

For every 100,000 NXT that forges, how much NXT is earned per day?
Same question for Ardor. If the return on investment is too low, people will not forge.
This is similar to one of the problems with Bitcoin, when the transaction fee is too low, the miners don't want to process it.

MrV777

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 19, 2017, 11:24:37 pm

For every 100,000 NXT that forges, how much NXT is earned per day?
Same question for Ardor. If the return on investment is too low, people will not forge.
This is similar to one of the problems with Bitcoin, when the transaction fee is too low, the miners don't want to process it.

The return is dependent on the total NXT forging along with the number of TX's. Returns should increase as TX's increase
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farl4bit

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 20, 2017, 08:04:16 am

For every 100,000 NXT that forges, how much NXT is earned per day?
Same question for Ardor. If the return on investment is too low, people will not forge.
This is similar to one of the problems with Bitcoin, when the transaction fee is too low, the miners don't want to process it.

It depends on the amount of NXT that is forging, the amount of transactions (fees) and the price of 1 NXT.

Here's a calculator: https://www.mynxt.info/forging_calculator.php


I think 350 million forging stake by October is certainly possible. After all, the successful launch of Ardor depends on proper and safe functioning of Nxt through the end of October.
Even after Ardor is launched, Nxt can't simply fade away and let die, because it will prove unviability of the 100% fixed supply PoS concept, so Nxt users must forge IF they hope to get something out of their Ardor investment.

According to https://www.mynxt.info/forging_calculator.php we are already at 360,588,654 NXT forging power.

lurker10

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Re: If you do not forge, Nxt dies...
July 20, 2017, 08:29:42 am

According to https://www.mynxt.info/forging_calculator.php we are already at 360,588,654 NXT forging power.

I am suspicious of this number being so much higher. Even if it is accurate, it's also lower than last year by some 20-25%, same as nxtportal.org's numbers. This 20% retreat can and should be taken back.
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