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Damelon

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2015, 08:31:48 pm »

It is long known that the core developers are hostile towards clones.  The legal threat made earlier brings it to a whole new level.

This is a blatantly wrong statement. Also known as a lie.
Anyone can clone, as long as they include the GPL licensing.
You might want to take note that the people behind the first clone (N)HZ have reacted positively in this very thread: https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/notice-to-nxt-clone-creators/

A lot of people in Nxt (myself included) have been involved in more than one clone, just because they like other projects.

You are either completely misinformed, or just deliberately lying.
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dude

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2015, 08:39:31 pm »

I'd like to highlight some facts in this discussion so far.

The change to GPL was discussed on this forum before transitioning into it, where were you then to discuss this?

The accounts complaining about this are brand new and might as well be one person. Also all of them are trying to appear as experts on this matter.

If you are honest developer and person you'd respect the decisions and statements of the core developers who work hard to make this software and there would be no need for lawsuit threats and negative talks.
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VanBreuk

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2015, 08:40:34 pm »

I apologize for the toxicity here.

I'm sorry Frodo, but I don't think you are entitled to apologize on anyone's behalf, much less on behalf of the Nxt community, in the first comment you post literally two minutes after registering in the forums.
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jl777

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2015, 08:58:44 pm »

I'd like to highlight some facts in this discussion so far.

The change to GPL was discussed on this forum before transitioning into it, where were you then to discuss this?

The accounts complaining about this are brand new and might as well be one person. Also all of them are trying to appear as experts on this matter.

If you are honest developer and person you'd respect the decisions and statements of the core developers who work hard to make this software and there would be no need for lawsuit threats and negative talks.
exactly!
and all he/they have to do is GPL their derivative work to comply, at least that is my limited understanding.

Such burden
Much complaining
ulterior motive
trollpuppets
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Damelon

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2015, 09:09:47 pm »

I'd like to highlight some facts in this discussion so far.

The change to GPL was discussed on this forum before transitioning into it, where were you then to discuss this?

The accounts complaining about this are brand new and might as well be one person. Also all of them are trying to appear as experts on this matter.

If you are honest developer and person you'd respect the decisions and statements of the core developers who work hard to make this software and there would be no need for lawsuit threats and negative talks.
exactly!
and all he/they have to do is GPL their derivative work to comply, at least that is my limited understanding.

Such burden
Much complaining
ulterior motive
trollpuppets

GPL means open sourcing it all.
As far as I can determine, that's the reason not to want to use it.

The MIT vs GPL license discussion is old, but interesting:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/46380/how-do-i-use-gpl-and-mit-licenses-correctly

Quote
We should be clear here.

  • GPL allows commercial redistribution but the source code of the whole thing must be available (with changes) to anyone who purchases a copy of it .
  • LGPL is good for software libraries. These can be included in proprietary projects without needing to redistribute the whole source. The only time source distribution needs to happen is if they edit your code and even then, they only have to release their changes to it.
  • MIT code can be relicensed freely. Somebody could take your code, verbatim, and re-release it under GPL, proprietary licenses, etc.

"GPL vs MIT" is an eternal battle. Go with whatever you're actually happiest with, not what is most convenient. If you're not happy for potentially evil people to take your code and use it for potentially evil or lucrative purposes, use something where you have some recourse like GPL. If you really don't care and you're not using any GPL'd code yourself, a more liberal license like MIT would be fine.

Remember virally-open-source licenses aren't just good for you, they ensure that your work, however it's adapted and re-released is free for everybody under the same terms. Even if you're dumping the code with no interest in maintaining it, GPL gives it a better hope of remaining free.
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EvilDave

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2015, 09:23:09 pm »

Here's the Wikipedia GPL info, for those too lazy to search themselves:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License

One paragraph is very relevant to the current discussion:
Quote
David A. Wheeler argues that the copyleft provided by the GPL was crucial to the success of Linux-based systems, giving the programmers who contributed to the kernel the assurance that their work would benefit the whole world and remain free, rather than being exploited by software companies that would not have to give anything back to the community.

This is the crucial point here: people are free to do whatever the heck they like with Nxt under the GPL license, as long as the GPL license is applied to all subsidiary projects.......it's not a problem.

However, if someone wants to take the Nxt code and use it under another license or as (partially) closed source, then they have to ask permission from the copyleft holders and creators of the Nxt code: our devs. 
So far, mikecorleone has not made one step to get in direct contact with either the devs or the Nxt Foundation to discuss this, or to even enquire about what licensing arrangements may be involved. This makes his claim to represent genuine commercial entities doubtful, as a licensing deal for software isn't exactly a new concept in the business world.

We've had a couple of concept discussions about similar licensing deals with real businesses, and no-one from the real business/commercial world has even raised an eyebrow at the idea of Nxt licensing, it's a completely normal way to use existing systems in new businesses.

Could mc explain exactly why his clients need to have Nxt under the MIT license ?

« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 09:29:51 pm by EvilDave »
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yassin54

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2015, 09:33:08 pm »

GPL is the best solution, now I understand better hahaha  :D

capodieci

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2015, 02:36:41 am »

I always arrive late to the party :(

Ah, and this topic has been of great interest for me with debune.org and with otdocs.com

I do obviously follow common sense, and I do stand with the Nxt community for obvious reasons :)

I support GPL license for how it has been presented in this tread, I support the right of the authors of the software to be respected as such, I support open source under many aspects (security should not come from obfuscation, the more eyes go through the code the merrier, people should have the right to know what they run on their machines, people should be able to compile code on their own, people should always be able to change code at their will).

As I did participate to some of the discussions related to licensing, there are a couple of aspects that were discussed that left me confused tho, and that lead to some interesting (more philosophical than technical) position people had taken.

I do consider the license a mean to get to a goal. Rephrasing I first set what I want, then I choose the right license for it (rather than adapting what I want to the license I have chosen).

I believe that for the best of the Nxt future we need as much adoption as possible in as many projects as possible ALWAYS recognising and linking Nxt website in a visible place of whatever UI the software uses it (even if only using the Nxt APIs). For example, even in a test work we are doing (that is not released publicly) we always keep a link to Nxt: http://mvp.live.otdocs.com/ (check the bottom right corner) - don't abuse the website is a mere work in progress.

During the past discussions we came out with two branding: "Nxt Inside" and "Powered by Nxt"

"Nxt inside" meant for projects based on the Nxt blockchain (obviously much more loved by holders of NXT as higher usage of the Nxt proprietary network means higher valuation of the NXT currency)

"Powerd by Nxt" is meant for projects that for a precise reason cannot use the main Nxt blockchain, and need to bootstrap a separate independent blockchain with a new genesis block.

In any case each project should give clear and evident recognition to Nxt.org so to drive users to the core Nxt project. Doing this using a special logo or text and link in the UI created, and obviously respecting the license and publishing and delivering the source code to the public and the users)

It has been quite an interesting sharing of opinions and ideas about the two different uses (I don't want to start this here again), really focused on the possibility to open a separate blockchain using a modified version of NRS as this would not directly favour people holding NXT (yet I do believe it will indirectly help adoption).

For what I do read in this tread it seems to me that the GPL license (unless it is modified to suit specific needs) does leave it open to anyone to pretty much make the best out of what has been done now, just making sure that the work done is openly accessible to everyone! Furthermore if someone whats to close source something built on top of the work done by the core developers... well, it must have good reasons and thus be ready to pay good cash for it!

I don't really see what the arrogance shown by that corleone/frodo dude is all about.

R
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pepito_fdez

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2017, 12:19:12 am »

I am reading this in 2017....

I DID read the whole thread. It's been a fun hour here. My impression, when I started reading Jean-Luc "reasons" for him to go GPL, is that he did it with a hidden purpose to make money off his product... which is OK, but please, save that bs about your "philanthropic" need to protect your work. You just want to make money dude. STFU.

THEN I find that NXT is not longer under GPL but JPL (Jelurida Public License)... here an excerpt...

Quote
The main idea of the Jelurida Public License is not only to ensure that the source code of any work based on a work released under this license remains open, and remains released under the same license, but also to make sure that the community of the original blockchain token holders also receives back some of the new token value created by any such derivative projects, if those have opted to create their own blockchain instead of using the blockchain instance for which the original software is being developed. This is achieved by the JPL sharedrop requirement of Article 3.4.1 of the General Conditions.

This is LAUGHABLE to say the least. This is their true intentions all along. Make money. That's why it went from MIT to GPL and now JPL. Nerds businessmen wannabe... pitiful.

All it takes is create an anonymous company somewhere in South America, say Bolivia ($50), then a shell company in Panama ($1,200) holding the one in Bolivia... then copy your code, Find and Replace all reference to NXT for FCKU and run the damn code... by the time your lawsuit comes to the courts (and you have spent LARGE amounts of money and years)... it's too late.

So stop sweating it man. If anyone wants to profit from your work, all it takes is a little of ingenuity.
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capodieci

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Re: Friendly nxt fork
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2017, 10:54:17 am »

I am reading this in 2017....

I DID read the whole thread. It's been a fun hour here. My impression, when I started reading Jean-Luc "reasons" for him to go GPL, is that he did it with a hidden purpose to make money off his product... which is OK, but please, save that bs about your "philanthropic" need to protect your work. You just want to make money dude. STFU.

THEN I find that NXT is not longer under GPL but JPL (Jelurida Public License)... here an excerpt...

Quote
The main idea of the Jelurida Public License is not only to ensure that the source code of any work based on a work released under this license remains open, and remains released under the same license, but also to make sure that the community of the original blockchain token holders also receives back some of the new token value created by any such derivative projects, if those have opted to create their own blockchain instead of using the blockchain instance for which the original software is being developed. This is achieved by the JPL sharedrop requirement of Article 3.4.1 of the General Conditions.

This is LAUGHABLE to say the least. This is their true intentions all along. Make money. That's why it went from MIT to GPL and now JPL. Nerds businessmen wannabe... pitiful.

All it takes is create an anonymous company somewhere in South America, say Bolivia ($50), then a shell company in Panama ($1,200) holding the one in Bolivia... then copy your code, Find and Replace all reference to NXT for FCKU and run the damn code... by the time your lawsuit comes to the courts (and you have spent LARGE amounts of money and years)... it's too late.

So stop sweating it man. If anyone wants to profit from your work, all it takes is a little of ingenuity.

An aggressive approach would only generate a defensive tactic on the devs side. I have been trying hard to explain JL & co why many other projects (including 1:1 clones of Nxt such as Waves) go mainstream, while sadly Nxt is unknown to most of the crypto community. The human aspect is 99% of the game, and the approach taken by Jelurida has been not the right one IMO. I lost face in a couple of occasions where I did introduce Nxt as the key solution and Jelurida as the people to talk to, making the mistake of assuming the aim was to bring Nxt where Ethereum is now, as an example. I still have hopes for Nxt and I still believe a friendly approach can be taken to bring the spotlight in this direction and make all the (small) community around Nxt enjoy the success. The value of Nxt, probably not as planned, is on the technology, and not on the cryptocurrency. We -- they -- can still save the day, and make Nxt something big. Ardor aside, as strategically that is something else altogether IMO.

R
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