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Author Topic: Free Speech Ban  (Read 15358 times)

Peter2516

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2014, 09:01:47 am »

Either you're too stupid to understand the concept of free speech on a private forum, or you're trolling. I think the latter.
Anyway, in both cases I expect forum admins to remove you from this forum until you grow up.

I'm not trolling.  They can ban me if they want
Good. Then I hope they ban you, so you can exercize you 'freedoms' at 4chan and bitcointalk.

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..but then they are going against all they supposedly stand for.
They stand for: moderating a cryptocurrency forum and promoting a friendly atmosphere under the forum rules people agree on when registering.
"Avoid irrelevant and annoying content in posts " Your avatar is generally regarded as 'annoying' to say the least.

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I don't agree with people, but I don't think they should lose their voice.  Restricting people leads to slavery and power complexes.  Is that really what you want?
You are fully aware this is not society, this is a cryptocurrency forum, not a anarchist free speech forum.
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CryptoWatch

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2014, 09:06:33 am »

Quote
..but then they are going against all they supposedly stand for.
They stand for: moderating a cryptocurrency forum and promoting a friendly atmosphere under the forum rules people agree on when registering.
"Avoid irrelevant and annoying content in posts " Your avatar is generally regarded as 'annoying' to say the least.

My avatar is "generally regarded as annoying"?  That's subjective to say the least.

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I don't agree with people, but I don't think they should lose their voice.  Restricting people leads to slavery and power complexes.  Is that really what you want?
You are fully aware this is not society, this is a cryptocurrency forum, not a anarchist free speech forum.

I thought NXT was supposed to be a decentralized movement.
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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.—Voltaire”

Peter2516

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2014, 09:08:58 am »

By the way, you can add people to your ignore list in your profile: https://nxtforum.org/profile/?area=lists;sa=ignore;u=1236 I just added CryptoWatch.
But of course it doesn't work when others quote the ignored user. Then you unfortunately still get to see the flamebait and trolling posts.

For blocking the avatar you need a computer on which you can install AdBlock or something like that, so until they remove the Nazi Swastika avatar this forum will mostly have become NSFW.
Great, ignoring a user also blocks the avatar :)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 09:11:05 am by Peter2516 »
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salsacz

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2014, 09:38:34 am »

Free speech is a very difficult topic.

When you supress it a different part of the society is happy with it because they won't hear that their religion is based on terror by example and get unhappy about it, because it's not true but ignorant people don't know better.  People with that specific religion are looked at a different way on the streets because they don't know better.

When you don't supress it. Freedom and crypto lovers will appreciate that but the society I described above will not be happy with that.

It's very hard and I don't know a solution myself where everybody can be happy.

Everyone will never be happy.  The role of fair mods / government isn't to make everyone happy.  The role of fair mods / government is to make sure everyone is free to express their opinion.  Sure, some people might take offense, but whose to say I don't take offense to their words?

the role of mods is to if some company like Apple wants to accept Nxt and it comes to this forum, it is assured that this community won't harm this company, is accesible to children etc
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daysi

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2014, 10:06:30 am »

the role of mods is to if some company like Apple wants to accept Nxt and it comes to this forum, it is assured that this community won't harm this company, is accesible to children etc

+1 (check my message #42)

We all have ideologies, but we respect each other by keeping them for ourselves.
This is not a forum for political propaganda but to raise people together around NXT.
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saladin89

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2014, 11:37:23 am »

The swastika is too much. This is a project we want to grow, and any divisive ideologies from left or right will hinder this. I would rather people not talk about politics. If this ever grows to the size of Bitcoin I would not care anymore. But now this is the only nxt forum and I don't want to see a fight between Social justice warriors/leftwingers and people from the right. Capitalism is an inherently universalist ideology and this is a hyper capitalist project, therefore any particularist ideologies will hinder its growth.

Eventually nxt will be a mirror image of todays society with all its competing ideologies, right now I think it is important to not have any major splits in the community.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 11:49:18 am by saladin89 »
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InYourFace

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2014, 11:41:08 am »

.
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2014, 12:57:28 pm »

I would rather people not talk about politics.

A lot of people came to cryptos because it's about politics. Personally, I would work in gamedev now if cryptos were only about money.
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saladin89

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #88 on: October 19, 2014, 01:02:51 pm »

I would rather people not talk about politics.

A lot of people came to cryptos because it's about politics. Personally, I would work in gamedev now if cryptos were only about money.

I get what you mean. I am also very interested in crypto because of politics. I am hoping it will advance the collapse of the the west further so it can start afresh again. I rather go out with a bang not a whimper.

The real difference here it seems that some people here want to be able to discuss very sensitive topics, but from a business perspective this is not wise. So it depends if one is more of the business type or more of the individualistic anything goes freedom of speech type(only deleting stupid low quality stuff, but allowing ww2 revisionism discussion). Little moderation might also be harmful to group cohesion. swastikas i presume is not good for group cohesion.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 01:34:48 pm by saladin89 »
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cobaltskky

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #89 on: October 19, 2014, 01:21:10 pm »

Everyone will never be happy.  The role of fair mods / government isn't to make everyone happy.  The role of fair mods / government is to make sure everyone is free to express their opinion.  Sure, some people might take offense, but whose to say I don't take offense to their words?

I disagree.  The rule of moderators and government is to execute the will of those they are moderating/governing.  They are those that the people have given up some measure of power and control in order to accomplish these things.  They facilitate for the welfare of the community, whatever the community decides that course of action should be.  It requires discussion, effort.  It's difficult to speak to gov't in this case because it's such a complex beast.  But in a community such as this one...I suppose we can liken it to local government.  Town hall meetings.  Individuals personally know those with positions of authority.  In that case, the community(by vote) dictates what the facilitators shall do to execute their will.  It's not a perfect system, but is there a better one?  One needs to know how to work within the context of that system to achieve their goals.

One of the things that doesn't help a new member endear themselves to the community is not rocking the boat right out of the gate.

I have deep personal concerns with the propagation of hate speech/imagery.  As a member of this community, I am very happy to see that the mods have stepped up to squelch it.  I fully support Damelon's actions and views in this regard.
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coretechs

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #90 on: October 19, 2014, 01:55:23 pm »

Can the forum be configured to display the ignore button next to applaud/bitcoinpaul?  It would be more convenient that way.
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cobaltskky

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #91 on: October 19, 2014, 02:19:34 pm »

Can the forum be configured to display the ignore button next to applaud/bitcoinpaul?  It would be more convenient that way.

I don't want to ignore this guy, because I want to make sure he's not hating up our forum.  This sort of stuff needs to be checked...
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profitofthegods

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2014, 02:49:53 pm »

I would prefer a forum without censorship.

The cartoons were about Coinbase so I think they were not off-topic.

I don't know whether there was any truth in the cartoon's inference that there is a connection between Jews and banksters, and even less so how this relates to Coinbase - because I was denied the opportunity to engage in a discussion about it. I find that very troubling, and in the absence of more complete information I can only assume that the person being censored must have been expressing some dangerous truth.

I think this quote is worth repeating:

Voltaire: "To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."
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cobaltskky

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2014, 03:07:20 pm »

I would prefer a forum without censorship.

The cartoons were about Coinbase so I think they were not off-topic.

I don't know whether there was any truth in the cartoon's inference that there is a connection between Jews and banksters, and even less so how this relates to Coinbase - because I was denied the opportunity to engage in a discussion about it. I find that very troubling, and in the absence of more complete information I can only assume that the person being censored must have been expressing some dangerous truth.

I think this quote is worth repeating:

Voltaire: "To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Your leap in logic boggles my mind.  I literally don't know how to respond.  "Damelon locks thread that includes hate imagery posted by Nazi guy" = "proof that individuals who are Jewish run a banking cartel"??

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cobaltskky

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #94 on: October 19, 2014, 03:12:02 pm »

PS I'd like to state that if ever I post something offensive to the community(aka a substantial portion of the active membership), I am completely open to removing it or having it moderated.  This is some of the freedom that I agree to surrender(and everybody else who surrenders) when they join this community.  It's about playing nice in the sandbox with the rest of the kids, and not having bullies rule the sandbox.  That is what community is about - giving up some personal freedom for the benefit of the community.
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cexylikepie

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #95 on: October 19, 2014, 03:13:36 pm »

can someone explain to me why the image of a swastika is offensive? I thought they were only illegal in Germany?
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profitofthegods

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2014, 03:14:32 pm »

I would prefer a forum without censorship.

The cartoons were about Coinbase so I think they were not off-topic.

I don't know whether there was any truth in the cartoon's inference that there is a connection between Jews and banksters, and even less so how this relates to Coinbase - because I was denied the opportunity to engage in a discussion about it. I find that very troubling, and in the absence of more complete information I can only assume that the person being censored must have been expressing some dangerous truth.

I think this quote is worth repeating:

Voltaire: "To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Your leap in logic boggles my mind.  I literally don't know how to respond.  "Damelon locks thread that includes hate imagery posted by Nazi guy" = "proof that individuals who are Jewish run a banking cartel"??



Lol, it was a little tongue in cheek in order to make a point.

You define this thing as hate imagery, but if you do not feel you can make that point reasonably during a discussion, whereas the other person thinks they can make their point through discussion, then you are not doing yourself any favours because it just makes it look like you are not just unwilling to defend your position, but actually unable to. The only people who should have something to fear from openly discussing a subject are the people who are in the wrong and want to cover it up. If you are not in the wrong, then any discussion will surely bring out the truth of what you have to say and the fallacies of your opponents position - so why would you want to censor it? That is the main point I wanted to make.
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coffeetime

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2014, 03:18:16 pm »

imho this thread is  ........ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c
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cobaltskky

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #98 on: October 19, 2014, 03:19:19 pm »

Ah, thanks for explaining!  Somebody already commented on how the imagery has historically been used to spread fear, resentment, hate about a specific demographic of the populace.  I agree with their post - I wanted to +1440 it, but the thread was locked. ::shrug::
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Damelon

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Re: Free Speech Ban
« Reply #99 on: October 19, 2014, 03:22:21 pm »

can someone explain to me why the image of a swastika is offensive? I thought they were only illegal in Germany?

*this particular version of a swastika* (as designed by mr Hitler himself, by the way) is offensive, because it is *only* used by organisations that proliferate hate speech, suppression of human rights, exclusion of people on the basis of race, have a history of death, massacres and disregard for basic human rights etc. etc.

I am a Buddhist myself, so know damn well that the swasika has other meanings, in many cultures.
However, the Swastika that runs counterclockwise (or widdershins as you may call it), on it's point, in a white circle on a red background is a symbol of one of the most oppresive regimes, and is associated with *those* particular groups.

On the topic of banning: we are currently discussing how to deal with this, now, and in the future. People will make decisions on the basis of the action we take, no matter what. Discussion = good. Propagation of hate speech is questionable at best and in my personal opinion: bad.
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