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Author Topic: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.  (Read 4411 times)

rudeboi

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2014, 02:35:57 pm »

@Ezravdb

Hacking in terms of brute forcing, yes impossible!

But the problem is at some point you have to type or paste you password into the client, and if your PC is infected (key logger) then every keystroke and even entries in your clipboard can be recorded and sent to a hacker.

At the moment the Nxt community is fairly tech savy so are unlikely to be on an infected computer.

However as Nxt becomes more popular, people with less knowledge of virus’s / key loggers we be using the service. And also with more traffic  hackers will be writing specific key loggers that main aim is collect your Nxt password.

Best solution at the moment is to use software like Keepass
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The-Lawyer-of-NXT

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2014, 06:10:09 am »

@Ezravdb

Hacking in terms of brute forcing, yes impossible!

But the problem is at some point you have to type or paste you password into the client, and if your PC is infected (key logger) then every keystroke and even entries in your clipboard can be recorded and sent to a hacker.

At the moment the Nxt community is fairly tech savy so are unlikely to be on an infected computer.

However as Nxt becomes more popular, people with less knowledge of virus’s / key loggers we be using the service. And also with more traffic  hackers will be writing specific key loggers that main aim is collect your Nxt password.

Best solution at the moment is to use software like Keepass

Security is essential, and in my opinion this is the key to get cryptos mainstream, We will wait for the AC and NXTkey for NXT to shine¡¡¡¡


 

CryptKeeper

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2014, 12:49:03 pm »

@Ezravdb

Hacking in terms of brute forcing, yes impossible!

But the problem is at some point you have to type or paste you password into the client, and if your PC is infected (key logger) then every keystroke and even entries in your clipboard can be recorded and sent to a hacker.

At the moment the Nxt community is fairly tech savy so are unlikely to be on an infected computer.

However as Nxt becomes more popular, people with less knowledge of virus’s / key loggers we be using the service. And also with more traffic  hackers will be writing specific key loggers that main aim is collect your Nxt password.

Best solution at the moment is to use software like Keepass

Activate the anti-keylogging feature in Keepass!
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Vrontis

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2014, 07:36:29 am »

What if we implement a "Terms Of Service" on the Asset Issue section?
i.e. When someone issuing an asset it will be required to fulfill the Terms Of Service before the asset goes live.
By doing that both parties are "secured" a little bit more.
This doesn't means that it will prevent a scammer to issue an asset but will give to the scammer the ability to write down a TOS that is says "i am a scammer".Then if you buy this asset you have agreed with those Terms.
But it will also increase the momentum of the assets that they have proved their reliability (and secure them as well).
On the other hand not everyone knows how to right a Terms of service.So, in this case it can be a template for "Terms Of Service" approved by nxt community.
I think this will enhance the legal part of the Asset Exchange... and we can start with that in order to find out who is violating the rules.
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Thames

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2014, 08:33:24 am »

Yes I know it is really complicated if not impossible, but maybe through the voting system or through a third of trust we could try something.




For example implement a reputation system through a third of trust:

-I pay salsacz 1.000 NXT for a video
-salsacz receive the money and do not send the video.

-I go to a 3rd of trust like for example JL777, Come from beyond or any other old users to solve the problem. We could make a list with 10 historical nxters who could work as judges. 
-The one who solves the conflict earns the 10% of the total value as a fee for the process, and to discourage the usage of this Trust system ( if not, everybody would be using it incorrectly)
-This system can only be used for example, by Nxters with more than 50 transactions with 0 negative votes ( as well as ebay lets vote each trade, we could vote too )




If my funds are stolen, I could go to this third of trust to ask for the freeze of the account of the stealer, and if he can prove that the money he takes is because a trade/legit, I would lost my funds and I would have to pay a 20% fee (before starting the dispute)

If the thief can't prove that the stolen funds are legit, this will be frozen and refunded to the real owner.




SOMETHING LIKE THIS, of course it would have a lot of problems, but I think it would be better than nothing.
You think real people would want to officially enter into disputes, where the term 'scam' can mean a multitude of scenarios? Who defines what a scam is, and why should people trust CFB, jl777 to definitively define what a dispute is?

"If the thief can't prove that the stolen funds are legit, this will be frozen and refunded to the real owner."
There will be no humans freezing other peoples decentralized accounts or addresses. If you meant that code could do this through clever voting, fine, but thats a holy grail that doesnt exist at present. Its naive in this context, to pursue a 'solution' that relies on human decision making.

Whats your area of law? 
   
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Ezravdb

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2014, 08:36:17 am »

@Ezravdb

Hacking in terms of brute forcing, yes impossible!

But the problem is at some point you have to type or paste you password into the client, and if your PC is infected (key logger) then every keystroke and even entries in your clipboard can be recorded and sent to a hacker.

At the moment the Nxt community is fairly tech savy so are unlikely to be on an infected computer.

However as Nxt becomes more popular, people with less knowledge of virus’s / key loggers we be using the service. And also with more traffic  hackers will be writing specific key loggers that main aim is collect your Nxt password.

Best solution at the moment is to use software like Keepass

Activate the anti-keylogging feature in Keepass!

Thanks for the tip.

When Nxt becomes more mainstream this could be a problem also I agree.

I am going to install keepass right now
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bizz

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2014, 08:38:24 am »

@Ezravdb

Hacking in terms of brute forcing, yes impossible!

But the problem is at some point you have to type or paste you password into the client, and if your PC is infected (key logger) then every keystroke and even entries in your clipboard can be recorded and sent to a hacker.

At the moment the Nxt community is fairly tech savy so are unlikely to be on an infected computer.

However as Nxt becomes more popular, people with less knowledge of virus’s / key loggers we be using the service. And also with more traffic  hackers will be writing specific key loggers that main aim is collect your Nxt password.

Best solution at the moment is to use software like Keepass

Activate the anti-keylogging feature in Keepass!

Thanks for the tip.

When Nxt becomes more mainstream this could be a problem also I agree.

I am going to install keepass right now

Bitcoin has the same problem. If you have keylogger on your machine wallet.dat is already gone.
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The-Lawyer-of-NXT

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2014, 02:56:33 pm »

What if we implement a "Terms Of Service" on the Asset Issue section?
i.e. When someone issuing an asset it will be required to fulfill the Terms Of Service before the asset goes live.
By doing that both parties are "secured" a little bit more.
This doesn't means that it will prevent a scammer to issue an asset but will give to the scammer the ability to write down a TOS that is says "i am a scammer".Then if you buy this asset you have agreed with those Terms.
But it will also increase the momentum of the assets that they have proved their reliability (and secure them as well).
On the other hand not everyone knows how to right a Terms of service.So, in this case it can be a template for "Terms Of Service" approved by nxt community.
I think this will enhance the legal part of the Asset Exchange... and we can start with that in order to find out who is violating the rules.

This is something I think imperative. I think it is easy and gives confidence. I will write some common rules to be added with any Asset for if anyone wants to use them. 

CryptKeeper

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2014, 02:59:34 pm »

What if we implement a "Terms Of Service" on the Asset Issue section?
i.e. When someone issuing an asset it will be required to fulfill the Terms Of Service before the asset goes live.
By doing that both parties are "secured" a little bit more.
This doesn't means that it will prevent a scammer to issue an asset but will give to the scammer the ability to write down a TOS that is says "i am a scammer".Then if you buy this asset you have agreed with those Terms.
But it will also increase the momentum of the assets that they have proved their reliability (and secure them as well).
On the other hand not everyone knows how to right a Terms of service.So, in this case it can be a template for "Terms Of Service" approved by nxt community.
I think this will enhance the legal part of the Asset Exchange... and we can start with that in order to find out who is violating the rules.

This is something I think imperative. I think it is easy and gives confidence. I will write some common rules to be added with any Asset for if anyone wants to use them.

+1
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The-Lawyer-of-NXT

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2014, 03:05:47 pm »

Yes I know it is really complicated if not impossible, but maybe through the voting system or through a third of trust we could try something.




For example implement a reputation system through a third of trust:

-I pay salsacz 1.000 NXT for a video
-salsacz receive the money and do not send the video.

-I go to a 3rd of trust like for example JL777, Come from beyond or any other old users to solve the problem. We could make a list with 10 historical nxters who could work as judges. 
-The one who solves the conflict earns the 10% of the total value as a fee for the process, and to discourage the usage of this Trust system ( if not, everybody would be using it incorrectly)
-This system can only be used for example, by Nxters with more than 50 transactions with 0 negative votes ( as well as ebay lets vote each trade, we could vote too )




If my funds are stolen, I could go to this third of trust to ask for the freeze of the account of the stealer, and if he can prove that the money he takes is because a trade/legit, I would lost my funds and I would have to pay a 20% fee (before starting the dispute)

If the thief can't prove that the stolen funds are legit, this will be frozen and refunded to the real owner.




SOMETHING LIKE THIS, of course it would have a lot of problems, but I think it would be better than nothing.
You think real people would want to officially enter into disputes, where the term 'scam' can mean a multitude of scenarios? Who defines what a scam is, and why should people trust CFB, jl777 to definitively define what a dispute is?

"If the thief can't prove that the stolen funds are legit, this will be frozen and refunded to the real owner."
There will be no humans freezing other peoples decentralized accounts or addresses. If you meant that code could do this through clever voting, fine, but thats a holy grail that doesnt exist at present. Its naive in this context, to pursue a 'solution' that relies on human decision making.

Whats your area of law? 
 



It would be voluntary. And I see it just for the guy who has his funds Stolen, as protection.

There will be no humans freezing other peoples decentralized accounts or addresses. If you meant that code could do this through clever voting, fine, but thats a holy grail that doesnt exist at present. Its naive in this context, to pursue a 'solution' that relies on human decision making.

+1

The problem, as well as I said before, is that each time that I speak with a “non-crypto”, they say they dont want BTC/NXT because it is unsecure/unsafe, and what happens if your funds are stolen…
BTW let’s wait for the AC and NxtKey to see what happens.   


Thames

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Re: Looking for a tool to punish the scammer.
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2014, 04:45:13 pm »

Yes I know it is really complicated if not impossible, but maybe through the voting system or through a third of trust we could try something.




For example implement a reputation system through a third of trust:

-I pay salsacz 1.000 NXT for a video
-salsacz receive the money and do not send the video.

-I go to a 3rd of trust like for example JL777, Come from beyond or any other old users to solve the problem. We could make a list with 10 historical nxters who could work as judges. 
-The one who solves the conflict earns the 10% of the total value as a fee for the process, and to discourage the usage of this Trust system ( if not, everybody would be using it incorrectly)
-This system can only be used for example, by Nxters with more than 50 transactions with 0 negative votes ( as well as ebay lets vote each trade, we could vote too )




If my funds are stolen, I could go to this third of trust to ask for the freeze of the account of the stealer, and if he can prove that the money he takes is because a trade/legit, I would lost my funds and I would have to pay a 20% fee (before starting the dispute)

If the thief can't prove that the stolen funds are legit, this will be frozen and refunded to the real owner.




SOMETHING LIKE THIS, of course it would have a lot of problems, but I think it would be better than nothing.
You think real people would want to officially enter into disputes, where the term 'scam' can mean a multitude of scenarios? Who defines what a scam is, and why should people trust CFB, jl777 to definitively define what a dispute is?

"If the thief can't prove that the stolen funds are legit, this will be frozen and refunded to the real owner."
There will be no humans freezing other peoples decentralized accounts or addresses. If you meant that code could do this through clever voting, fine, but thats a holy grail that doesnt exist at present. Its naive in this context, to pursue a 'solution' that relies on human decision making.

Whats your area of law? 
 



It would be voluntary. And I see it just for the guy who has his funds Stolen, as protection.

There will be no humans freezing other peoples decentralized accounts or addresses. If you meant that code could do this through clever voting, fine, but thats a holy grail that doesnt exist at present. Its naive in this context, to pursue a 'solution' that relies on human decision making.

+1

The problem, as well as I said before, is that each time that I speak with a “non-crypto”, they say they dont want BTC/NXT because it is unsecure/unsafe, and what happens if your funds are stolen…
BTW let’s wait for the AC and NxtKey to see what happens.   
For the non crypto, this is where insurance and escrow services will become an increasing market, that will be attractive to those people you speak with. But that doesnt really address the title of the thread, i guess.
If you have been around BCT in the last year, you will know that punishing scammers, thief's, and incompetents like Deprived, Ukyo, TradeFortress, David Williamson, Danny Brewster, Labcoin, and plenty more, is not effective at all, and every one of the victims will say they have had funds stolen by the aforementioned, while said thief continues to operate with apparent impunity.
I dont know what the answer is, other than having leverage with people, before you deal with them, whatever form that takes. :-\   
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