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[PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.  
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Author Topic: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.  (Read 21602 times)

coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2016, 10:19:31 am »

To prevent further questions why re-launch NXT

I have a very clear vision of what a system based on principles similar to NXT should be, regarding usability, connection to existing institutions,
and its role in the nascent decentralized platforms universe. I always liked the direct approach bcnext took, if you need some feature just include it in the core. This approach runs counter to ETH approach, where you just provide the tools and wait for people to build features using them.
ETH is very cool, but we need alternative approaches too. I can see that in a year after ETH launch no one managed to code an AE analogue.
it will be coded eventually of course, but it suggests that ETH might be not the final solution.

We will revolutionize crowdfunding, and the way open source development is working. I'm already talking to several payment systems who will back up fiat assets. What we will be doing will be really close to real world economy, will be based on our NXT experience, will have a very clear focus on what people REALLY need, and will address their urgent demands.

Don't ask why re-launch. Ask what will be better.
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2016, 10:22:38 am »

Using BTC as THE internal currency is essential. It is the only asset liquid enough in the currency space. Fiat opens up the issue of counterparty trust and KYC.

If you start the development process with the clear support of programmable transactions with supernodes, you add a key feature enough for me to participate to the presale/IPO.
yes, BTC will be supported on the core level.
Basically we'll have pre-approved fiat and crypto assets, backed-up by third parties.
We will try to minimize the centralization here of course, using existing tech (multisig) and organizational (having several fiat partners) tools.
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2016, 10:23:53 am »

So what happen to your current asset on Nxt the ecosystem?

To be honest, this sound a like a leaving ship move and sound a like a bad new, not a good one.  :(

I don't see problems with Nxt platform for the point of view of your usage and I have difficulty understanding the need of a new blockchain, seriously!
All my assets will be moved to the new platform, so there will be no financial loss to asset holders. All dividend payouts will made in BTC/Fiat.
Also all my NXT projects will be supported, including coinomat, nxtcrowd.fund and others.
I don't wanna fight wars with current NXT dev's, wish NXT all the best, but my view of what NXT should be is exactly opposite to theirs.

So, present holders of your assets will need to install new client, download new blockchain, trade them on new platform?
not much installation will be there. will a very high probability it will run in a browser as a plugin.
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2016, 10:24:32 am »

But why don't you wait for Nxt 2.0 to launch your blockchain on Nxt? Does not that sound ironic?

Maybe he is not happy with the direction where NXT 2.0 is heading?
That's true, I won't deny that.
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Sebastien256

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2016, 10:25:49 am »

If you create a new blockhain coinomat, I hope cryptofund holder will hold 10% of all the tokens and 10% more of the token will be distribute to your cryptofund holders. Because you said cryptofund was your umbrella assets for all your projects.

edit, im not sure of the usual pourcentage, but you get the idea.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 10:27:54 am by Sebastien256 »
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2016, 10:28:27 am »

If you create a new blockhain coinomat, I hope cryptofund holder will hold 10% of all the tokens and 10% more of the token will be distribute to your cryptofund holders. Because you said cryptofund was your umbrella assets for all your projects.
Everyone is gonna be happy, trust me.
I don't care about NXT per se, but I do care about NXT community a lot. This is a way to make it rich and prosperous.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 10:30:45 am by coinomat »
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lurker10

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2016, 10:47:44 am »

I sense this crypto will be more centralized and by extension more KYC/AML legal framework and censorship compliant than NXT because of its connections with banking institutions. NXT is a grey area to operate for companies because too decentralized. This is a relevant thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336082.0
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2016, 10:52:52 am »

I sense this crypto will be more centralized and by extension more KYC/AML legal framework and censorship compliant than NXT because of its connections with banking institutions. NXT is a grey area to operate for companies because too decentralized. This is a relevant thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336082.0
true that. I'm not much of a crypto anarchist. I'm a decentralization guy. It's different. Blockchains should become objective reality the banks have to deal with, BUT NOT CONTROL THEM. Fuck permissioned blockchains. Banks has to work with existing miners/stakers supported chains.
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lurker10

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2016, 10:56:46 am »

banks have to deal with, BUT NOT CONTROL THEM. Fuck permissioned blockchains. Banks has to work with existing miners/stakers supported chains.

How do you achieve that if you're not fully, to the point of obsession, decentralized? Existing miners/stakers in your semi-decentralized blockchain will have to comply with censorship demands to filter certain transactions as one example. It's a wide road to permissioned blockchain. You can't serve two masters.

I won't even mention privacy features like CoinShuffling, these will have to be off-limits in your blockchain.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 11:01:55 am by lurker10 »
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Cassius

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2016, 10:57:40 am »

I sense this crypto will be more centralized and by extension more KYC/AML legal framework and censorship compliant than NXT because of its connections with banking institutions. NXT is a grey area to operate for companies because too decentralized. This is a relevant thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336082.0
true that. I'm not much of a crypto anarchist. I'm a decentralization guy. It's different. Blockchains should become objective reality the banks have to deal with, BUT NOT CONTROL THEM. Fuck permissioned blockchains. Banks has to work with existing miners/stakers supported chains.

Permissioned blockchains terrify me.
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2016, 11:02:57 am »

banks have to deal with, BUT NOT CONTROL THEM. Fuck permissioned blockchains. Banks has to work with existing miners/stakers supported chains.

How do you achieve that if you're not fully, to the point of obsession, decentralized? Existing miners/stakers in your semi-decentralized blockchain will have to comply with censorship demands to filter certain transactions as one example. It's a wide road to permissioned blockchain. You can't serve two masters.
Of course it is completely decentralized. Banks provide fiat services, issue fiat assets and do the market making, i.e buy and sell them for fiat. They don't control anything else but their fiat asset.
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lurker10

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2016, 11:18:23 am »

banks have to deal with, BUT NOT CONTROL THEM. Fuck permissioned blockchains. Banks has to work with existing miners/stakers supported chains.

How do you achieve that if you're not fully, to the point of obsession, decentralized? Existing miners/stakers in your semi-decentralized blockchain will have to comply with censorship demands to filter certain transactions as one example. It's a wide road to permissioned blockchain. You can't serve two masters.
Of course it is completely decentralized. Banks provide fiat services, issue fiat assets and do the market making, i.e buy and sell them for fiat. They don't control anything else but their fiat asset.

Do you really believe that in the future banks will be allowed to provide fiat services to blockchains with unlicensed miners/stakers who don't comply with all the censorship laws? They're already ramping up legislation efforts in that direction if you follow crypto related news.
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2016, 11:24:48 am »

banks have to deal with, BUT NOT CONTROL THEM. Fuck permissioned blockchains. Banks has to work with existing miners/stakers supported chains.

How do you achieve that if you're not fully, to the point of obsession, decentralized? Existing miners/stakers in your semi-decentralized blockchain will have to comply with censorship demands to filter certain transactions as one example. It's a wide road to permissioned blockchain. You can't serve two masters.
Of course it is completely decentralized. Banks provide fiat services, issue fiat assets and do the market making, i.e buy and sell them for fiat. They don't control anything else but their fiat asset.

Do you really believe that in the future banks will be allowed to provide fiat services to blockchains with unlicensed miners/stakers who don't comply with all the censorship laws? They're already ramping up legislation efforts in that direction if you follow crypto related news.
There's a war we should fight you know.
My ideal world is when there's a decentralized cloud, decentralized DB not belonging to one party but to humanity as a whole.
So you just push and pull your data to/from the Cloud.
This cloud will be  OBJECTIVE. It will simply exist as a cloud in the sky does, no matter what you think about it.  Everyone will have to work with it. BTC blockchain now is objective. certain banks DO consider working with BTC blockchain directly.
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lurker10

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2016, 11:31:33 am »

certain banks DO consider working with BTC blockchain directly.

Because it is small and legislation lags behind. Some banks will probably break laws to work with permissionless censorship-resistant blockchains in the future, it's not uncommon for banks to break laws. Be sure the compliance laws are coming and plan for them.
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2016, 12:29:04 pm »

certain banks DO consider working with BTC blockchain directly.

Because it is small and legislation lags behind. Some banks will probably break laws to work with permissionless censorship-resistant blockchains in the future, it's not uncommon for banks to break laws. Be sure the compliance laws are coming and plan for them.
Compliance laws relating to what? Decentralized databases? will they ban SQL too? :)
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lurker10

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2016, 12:46:54 pm »

Compliance laws relating to what? Decentralized databases? will they ban SQL too? :)

Data doesn't enter databases on its own, somebody has to move it there. All of these "somebody"s will need to get a license before banks are allowed to operate on a blockchain. No license for data movers - no bank touching the blockchain to process government money in and out.

The crypto will largely break in two categories: a) semi-decentralized blockchains interacting with government money with licensed delegated (DPoS) miners/stakers who comply with censorship and other laws; b) decentralized blockchains free from licensing with peer to peer exchanges of government money in the localbitcoins style, with no government money institutional gateways except those run by banks that break laws.
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coinomat

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2016, 01:28:48 pm »

Compliance laws relating to what? Decentralized databases? will they ban SQL too? :)

Data doesn't enter databases on its own, somebody has to move it there. All of these "somebody"s will need to get a license before banks are allowed to operate on a blockchain. No license for data movers - no bank touching the blockchain to process government money in and out.

The crypto will largely break in two categories: a) semi-decentralized blockchains interacting with government money with licensed delegated (DPoS) miners/stakers who comply with censorship and other laws; b) decentralized blockchains free from licensing with peer to peer exchanges of government money in the localbitcoins style, with no government money institutional gateways except those run by banks that break laws.
laws will have to adjust man, they'll have to adjust. they always do.
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lurker10

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2016, 03:27:30 pm »

laws will have to adjust man, they'll have to adjust. they always do.

You make me laugh. You expect law makers to let crypto facilitate destruction of government money? Since when did the governments like competition? Capital controls are already escalating, wake up. They will want to have full control of crypto. The crypto they can't have full control over will be banned from interacting with banks.
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Seccour

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2016, 03:48:54 pm »

laws will have to adjust man, they'll have to adjust. they always do.

You make me laugh. You expect law makers to let crypto facilitate destruction of government money? Since when did the governments like competition? Capital controls are already escalating, wake up. They will want to have full control of crypto. The crypto they can't have full control over will be banned from interacting with banks.

You don't need bank with cryptocurrencies. That the point of them.
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EvilDave

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Re: [PRE-ANN] Time to go further. New Chain is coming.
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2016, 04:31:34 pm »

But why don't you wait for Nxt 2.0 to launch your blockchain on Nxt? Does not that sound ironic?

Maybe he is not happy with the direction where NXT 2.0 is heading?
That's true, I won't deny that.

Just need to remind everyone that nothing about Nxt 2.0 is set yet. We're discussing a proposal, and we'll keep on discussing it until we arrive at a plan that keeps most people happy. Only then will stuff start to be implemented.
From my point of view.....you're rushing into a big decision on a very short time frame.
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