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Stop Mining and Start Forging! singapore
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Author Topic: Stop Mining and Start Forging!  (Read 2754 times)

farl4bit

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Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« on: March 31, 2016, 09:05:13 am »

I saw the last speech of astronaut and physicist Wubbo Ockels again lately (died in 2014 of cancer). And again is was really impressed and moved by his speech on his death bed about how we kill our planet.  :'(


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rDG6pE-GGY

And now imagine all the Bitcoin miners who are mining at currently 350 megawatts, which is roughly equivalent to the electricity demand of 280,000 American households. Using an amount of hardware material to build another Eiffel tower. In a bad case scenario Bitcoin will be consuming as much electricity as a small country like Denmark.


(Source: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-could-consume-as-much-electricity-as-denmark-by-2020)

For me it's completely clear that Bitcoin is not the future. For example, in my country (the Netherlands) the old light bulbs are forbidden to sell by law.

One of the Unique Selling Points of Nxt is that we don't consume much energy. We need to get that message around so we can attract more people AND help our planet.



Forging Nxt on solar energy at no cost!  8)
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farl4bit

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 09:18:16 am »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_usage_of_the_United_States_military
Quote
The United States Department of Defense is one of the largest single consumers of energy in the world, responsible for 93% of all US government fuel consumption in 2007 (Air Force: 52%; Navy: 33%; Army: 7%. Other DoD: 1%).
Quote
In FY 2006, the DoD used almost 30,000 gigawatt hours (GWH) of electricity, at a cost of almost $2.2 billion.
Quote
The Department of Defense uses 4,600,000,000 US gallons (1.7×1010 L) of fuel annually, an average of 12,600,000 US gallons (48,000,000 L) of fuel per day.

Even if Bitcoin becomes a one true world currency with $1,000,000,000,000 market cap, it's energy usage will be smaller than the military industrial complex.

Am I comparing Bitcoin with the whole United States Department of Defense ?? ??? We can't change the United States Department of Defense, but can Stop Mining and Start Forging.  ;D
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Damelon

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2016, 09:32:02 am »

I think the point Farl is making is that PoS is a serious alternative to this and should be promoted as such.
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farl4bit

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2016, 09:47:37 am »

I think the point Farl is making is that PoS is a serious alternative to this and should be promoted as such.

You have a good view on Nxt my friend.  ;D
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websioux

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2016, 10:04:09 am »

I advice to be critic with this argument, it has bias that the opposite party can use. Because if/once mining becomes green then this argument vanishes. If POS has any security disadvantage against POW, then it would loose against 100% green mining.

And what is 280 000 over 10 000 000 000 ? 0.0028% - mining cost is not proportional to potential coin usage.

But on the conceptual level you are right. If a mental concept you do not adhere with yet allows for any better efficiency, remember that the remaining life species need you to evolve... So stop mining and start forging.
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Nxter

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2016, 04:35:52 pm »

I advice to be critic with this argument, it has bias that the opposite party can use. Because if/once mining becomes green then this argument vanishes. If POS has any security disadvantage against POW, then it would loose against 100% green mining.

And what is 280 000 over 10 000 000 000 ? 0.0028% - mining cost is not proportional to potential coin usage.

But on the conceptual level you are right. If a mental concept you do not adhere with yet allows for any better efficiency, remember that the remaining life species need you to evolve... So stop mining and start forging.

How can mining be green? Please elaborate.
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websioux

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 07:10:47 pm »

At least green energy. At best also green hardware. The problem is pollution not canalizing sun energy.
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Brangdon

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2016, 07:42:34 pm »

I advice to be critic with this argument, it has bias that the opposite party can use. Because if/once mining becomes green then this argument vanishes.
The Bitcoin security model is based on mining being expensive. If mining becomes cheap, then it becomes cheap to own more than 51% of the hash-power, and then it becomes cheap to attack the network. So it cannot become green; it must consume scarce, expensive resources.
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ron

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2016, 08:06:49 pm »

I advice to be critic with this argument, it has bias that the opposite party can use. Because if/once mining becomes green then this argument vanishes.
The Bitcoin security model is based on mining being expensive. If mining becomes cheap, then it becomes cheap to own more than 51% of the hash-power, and then it becomes cheap to attack the network. So it cannot become green; it must consume scarce, expensive resources.

Perhaps today, but in the future? What if only 2-3 mining pools left. They use stationary platforms in our low earth's orbit to mine. Powered by solar sails and cooled by temperature of the outer space. So no small business can build one but once launched it will be self-sustaining in terms of energy management.

Sure sounds more like science fiction but not impossible  :)
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websioux

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Re: Stop Mining and Start Forging!
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2016, 08:12:27 pm »

does green means cheap?

Does it means the efficiency race is over?

POS means its over.. that's one big reason for nxt adversial difficulty within the crypto world. And why its future must be built outside.

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