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Introductions & Join ups
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Author Topic: Introductions & Join ups  (Read 28362 times)

devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2016, 10:21:55 pm »

If done on testnet, it seems it will be a nightmare to tell people how to check the data. It will take obviously a lot of computer skills, and if it is plan to give access of this data to the public, good luck with that! On mainnet, everything will be accesible easily on the blockchain explorer.

What the plan about this? Do the data need to be accessible by the public?

It basically involves snapshotting the blockchain at the end of the primary, uploading it to bittorrent via a magnet link and storing that magnet link as a non-prunable plaintext message on the mainnet blockchain.  We then ask folks who wish to view the raw dataset to download and install NXT and torrent the testnet blockchain and import that for analysis.  It is after just a SQL DB.
3 days gives us time to snapshot the data, get it up and get a few seeds going.

Is that the best path for doing this you think?
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2016, 10:23:27 pm »

Unfortunalky, I don't have suggestion on this. My concern is that you may be overwhelm with technical support to give to the public if the test is done on testnet.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2016, 10:24:56 pm »

It basically involves snapshotting the blockchain at the end of the primary, uploading it to bittorrent via a magnet link and storing that magnet link as a non-prunable plaintext message on the mainnet blockchain.  We then ask folks who wish to view the raw dataset to download and install NXT and torrent the testnet blockchain and import that for analysis.  It is after just a SQL DB.


That what I thought. This is a complete nightmare if you are not a programmer.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2016, 10:38:32 pm »

It basically involves snapshotting the blockchain at the end of the primary, uploading it to bittorrent via a magnet link and storing that magnet link as a non-prunable plaintext message on the mainnet blockchain.  We then ask folks who wish to view the raw dataset to download and install NXT and torrent the testnet blockchain and import that for analysis.  It is after just a SQL DB.


That what I thought. This is a complete nightmare if you are not a programmer.

I dunno about that.  H2 db files can be opened by a number of data analysis tools.  Yeah it's a nightmare if you're two years on, don't understand the system etc.  But the data is there, it is available and it can be consumed by open tools.  At some level though, if you're analyzing large data sets you either need to BE a programmer or BUY one.  Any off the shelf coder can help you analyze the data.  What this does is help to ensure that it's available and that you get exactly the same data that present in the initial analysis.

Nevertheless, open to ideas here.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2016, 10:46:28 pm »

So back to my original question, do the (public) voters needs to be able to see their own vote after the election?

If yes, then testnet is a freaking bad idea, imho. Otherwise, if you expect only pro to be able to verify the data, then everthing seems fine.

I am myself an experienced programmer for scientific computing and I am, in my friends circle, by far the most technically computer skilled person. I would have to dig in to figure how to verify that my vote is correctly register.
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EvilDave

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2016, 11:31:38 pm »

Going to kick some testNXT in your direction, Dev.

How much would you like in total, and can you confirm that NXT-HHPG-GRXT-HYXS-3FD2H is your testNet account ?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2016, 11:52:57 pm »

So back to my original question, do the (public) voters needs to be able to see their own vote after the election?

If yes, then testnet is a freaking bad idea, imho. Otherwise, if you expect only pro to be able to verify the data, then everthing seems fine.

I am myself an experienced programmer for scientific computing and I am, in my friends circle, by far the most technically computer skilled person. I would have to dig in to figure how to verify that my vote is correctly register.

Yes voters need to be able to see their vote after the election.  Two options for that I think.
First would be to encourage them to download NXT and sync the blockchain so they can understand what they're looking at.

Second would be to point them at https://test.nxtportal.org/polls which will have the data for up to 24hrs after polls close.
Right?  Or am I missing something?
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2016, 11:58:50 pm »

Going to kick some testNXT in your direction, Dev.

How much would you like in total, and can you confirm that NXT-HHPG-GRXT-HYXS-3FD2H is your testNet account ?

Yes that's the correct account.  We're looking at 3NXT per voter for a single data point and 1 extra NXT per additional datapoint.  The total datapoints we collect will be largely dependent upon the amount of NXT we have in place at poll creation time.  But with 100k voters we need 300k just to ask them who they voted selected for president.  Another 100k to cover the senate candidates,  Then there are demographics questions, but it's likely that demographics will have a much lower response rate, still the cost ends up about the same.  So 400k covers us for president and senate.

Also thanks for the donations of testNXT!
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EvilDave

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2016, 12:19:08 am »

Sent you 200k a while ago, I'll send another 200k now, then I'm off to bed.
https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/1693755288367644334

Have fun, and I'd consider checking if:
https://test.nxtportal.org
can handle the projected visitor load.

(and if anyone feels like topping up my testNXT account after this: https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/16936981465227549021)
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2016, 12:45:16 am »

Sent you 200k a while ago, I'll send another 200k now, then I'm off to bed.
https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/1693755288367644334

Have fun, and I'd consider checking if:
https://test.nxtportal.org
can handle the projected visitor load.

(and if anyone feels like topping up my testNXT account after this: https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/16936981465227549021)

Like Pokemon, I got them all :D
Thanks again!
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2016, 01:24:39 am »

Have fun, and I'd consider checking if:
https://test.nxtportal.org
can handle the projected visitor load.

(and if anyone feels like topping up my testNXT account after this: https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/16936981465227549021)

I've reached out to the owner, of nxtportal.  I had assumed that the NXT foundation was the owner until this posting. 
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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dael

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Block download numbers increasing not decreasing?
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2016, 05:52:42 am »

Blockchain needed download constantly going up?
looks like 1500 a day. How big is a block
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lurker10

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Re: Block download numbers increasing not decreasing?
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2016, 06:04:13 am »

Blockchain needed download constantly going up?
looks like 1500 a day. How big is a block

If you are downloading the mainnet blockchain, here is a quick guuide.
Stop NXT client, go to http://peerexplorer.com/peerexplorer-api, download the full blockchain from https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5vrimeapjbwz2o/nxt_db_peerexplorer.zip?dl=1
extract to your NXT folder and you're ready.
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2016, 07:00:29 am »

@devlux - I think you need to scale back your deployment plans, today is June 6th, elections are in 3 days. Whatever you don't have now it's almost too late to prepare.
In Agistri last year, to get 30 people to pay for their meals in NXT we needed 3 full time personal on the ground and I believe the tooling we had back then are more mature than what you have now.
The excellent nxt portal site is not a good solution for this purpose since you'll need to explain blocks and transactions to people who just came to vote.
The more I think about it, deploying this on testnet, while possible, defeats the whole purpose.

If I were you, I would scale this back and set a goal of 200 voters in two schools, run it on mainnet, gather feedback, improve the tools and then try again on a larger scale.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2016, 10:42:33 am »

@devlux - I think you need to scale back your deployment plans, today is June 6th, elections are in 3 days. Whatever you don't have now it's almost too late to prepare.
In Agistri last year, to get 30 people to pay for their meals in NXT we needed 3 full time personal on the ground and I believe the tooling we had back then are more mature than what you have now.
The excellent nxt portal site is not a good solution for this purpose since you'll need to explain blocks and transactions to people who just came to vote.
The more I think about it, deploying this on testnet, while possible, defeats the whole purpose.

If I were you, I would scale this back and set a goal of 200 voters in two schools, run it on mainnet, gather feedback, improve the tools and then try again on a larger scale.

Duly noted. 
What is the secret recipe for getting a currency issued that is not exchangeable?  Literally just a filter so only approved accounts can vote in the polls, but so we can approve accounts after the poll is created?  Seems like every combination of options I can think of except just straight up exchangable is failing to actually create a coin because of some rule or another blocking issuance.
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2016, 11:12:14 am »

@devlux - I think you need to scale back your deployment plans, today is June 6th, elections are in 3 days. Whatever you don't have now it's almost too late to prepare.
In Agistri last year, to get 30 people to pay for their meals in NXT we needed 3 full time personal on the ground and I believe the tooling we had back then are more mature than what you have now.
The excellent nxt portal site is not a good solution for this purpose since you'll need to explain blocks and transactions to people who just came to vote.
The more I think about it, deploying this on testnet, while possible, defeats the whole purpose.

If I were you, I would scale this back and set a goal of 200 voters in two schools, run it on mainnet, gather feedback, improve the tools and then try again on a larger scale.

Duly noted. 
What is the secret recipe for getting a currency issued that is not exchangeable?  Literally just a filter so only approved accounts can vote in the polls, but so we can approve accounts after the poll is created?  Seems like every combination of options I can think of except just straight up exchangable is failing to actually create a coin because of some rule or another blocking issuance.

You need to set the Exchangeable+Controllable properties when you issue the currency, this way only the issuer account can publish an exchange offer and all transfers must involve the issuer account as either sender or recipient. This way if you don't publish an exchange offer, users cannot trade between themselves and transfers can only involve your account.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 11:59:04 am by Riker »
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dael

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Re: Block download numbers increasing not decreasing?
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2016, 03:45:31 pm »

Blockchain needed download constantly going up?
looks like 1500 a day. How big is a block

If you are downloading the mainnet blockchain, here is a quick guuide.
Stop NXT client, >>>snip links>>>

not getting the API as a vehicle to Download I am trying this link in microsoft download but not working dropbox  /s / p5vrimeapjbwz2o/ nxt_db_peerexplorer.zip
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dael

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2016, 03:48:59 pm »

got it pasted dropbox. link peerexplorer.zip?dl=1 into chrome
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lurker10

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2016, 04:31:16 pm »

Is this about to begin?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2016, 04:50:15 am »

Is this about to begin?

We tried to break murphy's law and murphy wrote us a ticket for it anyways :D 

I'm doing a post mortem but we gathered some extremely valuable data unfortunately it never made it to the NXT blockchain.  Thankfully we had quite a bit of app redundancy and even the NXT enabled app had a backup DB by way of firebase.  At the moment we're pulling in data.  Should have a full official report in the next day or so.

FYI I have quite a lot of test NXT to return, where do I send it?  Thanks!
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