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wolffang

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2016, 04:05:21 pm »

Hi devlux,

How is the project going?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2016, 07:40:17 am »

Hi devlux,

How is the project going?

Actually it's going awesome.  Sorry I've been so quiet.  I moved up north to be closer to this project, but my computer didn't survive the move.  Fortunately the data loss to this project was minimal.  Also I had a huge edge...
Eric who introduced himself earlier has been a HUGE help and if this is successful it will be in large part due to his efforts.

So here's where we stand...

For the purposes of the primary we decided to keep things as simple as possible.  This means we will be using the default NXT voting system, with custom, extremely simple client on top of the existing JSON rest APIs.

It works for the primaries because there are no write in fields we need to accommodate.

In order to control access to the poll, we created a new NXT monetary asset called VOTEUM symbol VOTUM.  It's just an internal marker, not intended for general consumption.

In the next 24hrs we will be performing a dry run by setting up a mock poll exactly like the one we will be using in the real primary.

The purpose of the dry run is to shake out the custom voting client we created, vetting it on as many different devices as possible prior to the primary.  So when the dry run is ready I will be posting instructions on how to download the client.  Once the client is installed, just post your NXT address and I will send some VOTUM so you can participate too.

If you happen to live in California we could really use more boots on the ground, especially technically literate boots.
We are starting to get media attention, and this attention is causing the ranks to swell.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/election-justice-usa/independent-citizens-election-audit-to-be-conducted-in-select-precincts-in-calif/889795561147138

As a side note the "code" talked about in that posting is actually an NXT paper wallet, so we're basically turning every California primary voter into an NXT user too.
Enjoy!

p.s. Riker, the wallet at http://62.194.6.113:7876/index.html is outdated. Since it's kind of the "semi-official webwallet" and linked from the NXT main page, someone really should get that fixed as soon as possible since we will be directing the California primary voters to there to check their results.
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martismartis

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2016, 07:53:44 am »

Thank you for update, nice progress. Are you doing this on Testnet or mainnet?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2016, 08:12:35 am »

Thank you for update, nice progress. Are you doing this on Testnet or mainnet?

Mainnet, sorry thought I said that already.  Guess i snipped too much out.
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martismartis

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2016, 08:53:41 am »

Thank you for update, nice progress. Are you doing this on Testnet or mainnet?

Mainnet, sorry thought I said that already.  Guess i snipped too much out.

No worries, just curious why you don't use testnet for code testing? On other hand, it's good to test on mainnet, more fees for forgers :)
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2016, 10:17:41 am »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

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testdruif

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2016, 10:49:27 am »

Lets not forget about the stress test.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2016, 10:45:08 pm »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Ok thanks.  BTW I've just come to realize that 2/3rds of the cost of doing it this way is going to be getting VOTUM & fee NXT money to all the participants.
This system would be infinitely more useful if polls had a "creator pays fees" option.

Consider this...
Originally we budgeted for 60,000k NXT or 1NXT per expected respondent. (60 locations with 1000 respondents each).
However to limit the number of devices to only those pre-authorized we did as Jean Luc suggested and created this VOTUM token.
To send 1 VOTUM to 60,000 accounts is going to be 60,000 tx's of 1 NXT each.
Additionally we will need to send 1NXT to each account, at a cost of 2NXT, i.e. 1 NXT for deposit and 1 NXT for the fee.

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2016, 05:56:40 am »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Ok thanks.  BTW I've just come to realize that 2/3rds of the cost of doing it this way is going to be getting VOTUM & fee NXT money to all the participants.
This system would be infinitely more useful if polls had a "creator pays fees" option.

Consider this...
Originally we budgeted for 60,000k NXT or 1NXT per expected respondent. (60 locations with 1000 respondents each).
However to limit the number of devices to only those pre-authorized we did as Jean Luc suggested and created this VOTUM token.
To send 1 VOTUM to 60,000 accounts is going to be 60,000 tx's of 1 NXT each.
Additionally we will need to send 1NXT to each account, at a cost of 2NXT, i.e. 1 NXT for deposit and 1 NXT for the fee.

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Can't think of a way around this, you'll need 3 NXT per voter.
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qq2536007339

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2016, 07:26:46 am »

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Interesting project,can't believe I didn't notice before.My suggest is switch to testnet or reduce scale.
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lurker10

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2016, 07:59:55 am »

Interesting how the network will manage the buildup of transactional volume, can't wait to watch it in real time.
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2016, 10:01:25 am »

@devlux one thing to consider, is that since you issued a the VOTUM currency without the CONTROLLABLE property, users (voters) can transfer VOTUM between themselves or even trade them using exchange offer/request. Quite sure this is not your intention for democracy counts.
You can still gather all the currency units back to your account then delete the currency and re-issue it as CONTROLLABLE
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EvilDave

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2016, 12:10:27 am »

Good to hear your news on the progress so far, DL, looking forward to seeing some Democracy Counts action.  ;D


p.s. Riker, the wallet at http://62.194.6.113:7876/index.html is outdated. Since it's kind of the "semi-official webwallet" and linked from the NXT main page, someone really should get that fixed as soon as possible since we will be directing the California primary voters to there to check their results.

Yeah, the client demo on Nxt.org is mine, and I'm always one of the last to update (lazy, cautious.... ;) ), though I will sort it out over this weekend.
But: I'd strongly recommend that you spin up your own node to use as an official DC result checking node.
I can't give you (or anyone) any guarantees about my nodes accessibility, uptime or performance, and it desperately needs some hardware upgrades.   

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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2016, 01:01:29 am »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Ok thanks.  BTW I've just come to realize that 2/3rds of the cost of doing it this way is going to be getting VOTUM & fee NXT money to all the participants.
This system would be infinitely more useful if polls had a "creator pays fees" option.

Consider this...
Originally we budgeted for 60,000k NXT or 1NXT per expected respondent. (60 locations with 1000 respondents each).
However to limit the number of devices to only those pre-authorized we did as Jean Luc suggested and created this VOTUM token.
To send 1 VOTUM to 60,000 accounts is going to be 60,000 tx's of 1 NXT each.
Additionally we will need to send 1NXT to each account, at a cost of 2NXT, i.e. 1 NXT for deposit and 1 NXT for the fee.

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Can't think of a way around this, you'll need 3 NXT per voter.

I know, I'm just asking if in the future NXT could add a "requester pays fee" option for polls.  I realize there is no way it will make it in time for this primary, but it would be awesome to have come november.  We could even escrow the coin or something upfront.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2016, 01:04:36 am »

@devlux one thing to consider, is that since you issued a the VOTUM currency without the CONTROLLABLE property, users (voters) can transfer VOTUM between themselves or even trade them using exchange offer/request. Quite sure this is not your intention for democracy counts.
You can still gather all the currency units back to your account then delete the currency and re-issue it as CONTROLLABLE

Thanks I didn't notice that.  I'll get that done here as soon as possible.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2016, 01:06:22 am »

Good to hear your news on the progress so far, DL, looking forward to seeing some Democracy Counts action.  ;D


p.s. Riker, the wallet at http://62.194.6.113:7876/index.html is outdated. Since it's kind of the "semi-official webwallet" and linked from the NXT main page, someone really should get that fixed as soon as possible since we will be directing the California primary voters to there to check their results.

Yeah, the client demo on Nxt.org is mine, and I'm always one of the last to update (lazy, cautious.... ;) ), though I will sort it out over this weekend.
But: I'd strongly recommend that you spin up your own node to use as an official DC result checking node.
I can't give you (or anyone) any guarantees about my nodes accessibility, uptime or performance, and it desperately needs some hardware upgrades.   

Thanks, I'm planning to spin nodes this weekend and have a list that users can choose from.  But yours is public and visible so it makes an obvious "hey don't believe us, check out the official thingy!"
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2016, 01:11:56 am »

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Interesting project,can't believe I didn't notice before.My suggest is switch to testnet or reduce scale.

Switching to testnet is under consideration for cost purposes. 
Right now though the code is using peerexplorer to find open nodes, and I don't see a clean way to find open nodes on testnet. 
We have enough traffic I worry about directing it to even a handful of nodes under our own control, but I also don't see any other way to get this info onto testnet.

Original plan was to have everything on the devices including what amounts to a full wallet with all the crypto stuff right there and talking directly to the network in a peer to peer fashion.  But we had to change that up once we realized we were going to have to go BYOD with our volunteers because some expected funding we were going to use to acquire our own devices did not materialize in time.  It kind of changed the initial design constraints of the system.  So for now it's just picking an open node at random and using the RESTful API.
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martismartis

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2016, 03:55:09 am »

https://test.nxtportal.org/peers/

Just don't know how to retrieve randomly these nodes for code, but maybe it is possible.
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dael

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2016, 04:08:10 am »

I work with a bunch of silly election integrity advocates on FB and would like to help here if possible. I got my wallet (needed fixed?) and now need votums.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2016, 05:03:48 am »

https://test.nxtportal.org/peers/

Just don't know how to retrieve randomly these nodes for code, but maybe it is possible.

Oh wow, thanks!  I think you just saved my bacon.  If those are all test nodes, then we just pick a random number between 0 and number of nodes and use that node for that vote.

Again thanks!
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