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devlux

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Introductions & Join ups
« on: April 14, 2016, 09:14:46 pm »

Hello!

Now that Democracy Counts has it's own sub board here on the NXT forums, I am creating this space specifically for folks who would like to become part of the effort.  We need literally every one.  Requirements for joining include and are pretty much limited to "having a pulse".  This is a huge effort.  Anything you can imagine doing, is probably something we need to do.

So if you have a pulse and you'd like to put it to work helping to create a global standard for secure, verifiable, auditable electronic voting, then please introduce yourself and sign up below.

Thanks!
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verymuchso

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2016, 12:13:18 am »

I have a pulse  ;D

And am reading the whitepaper devlux send me over email.
It's an interesting read, somewhat rough, but i'm sure there are many here on this forum that like the technical details laid out in the paper.

Great initiative guys!
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2016, 01:30:57 am »

I have a pulse  ;D

And am reading the whitepaper devlux send me over email.
It's an interesting read, somewhat rough, but i'm sure there are many here on this forum that like the technical details laid out in the paper.

Great initiative guys!

This one https://nxtforum.org/democracy-counts!/whitepaper-11229/  I just posted it hot, because it does need a lot of help in the editing dept.
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danielhwolf

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Re: Introductions & Join ups to Democracy Counts!
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2016, 08:33:38 am »

Hello, Everyone,

My name is Daniel Wolf and I am managing the Democracy Counts! startup. I am a relative newcomer to cryptocoins. While advising Devin, Dawn and Alec on securities/corporation law for their blockchain biz I began studying up on blockchain. During my studies I realized that it might be possible to audit elections. I asked Devin, one thing led to another, and here we are.

I am a lawyer (Harvard) and political scientist (UC San Diego). I have always been passionate about solving big societal problems. For instance I invented a landmine clearing technology and developed a market-oriented public-health approach for improving landmine clearing. I have started an NGO, a university institute, two tech companies, and run a public company where I had to clean up a $50MM scam. While at Harvard I wrote the world's second guide for election observers and the first tailored to a particular country (Nicaragua), and later wrote a string of scholarly articles about elections and democratic institutions. My election fairness framework was adopted in 2012 by an international observer mission to observe the presidential election in Taiwan. While a Fulbright Fellow in Nicaragua and El Salvador I correctly predicted and explained the surprising end of the Salvadoran civil war. Some of my former election-monitor colleagues are advising us by asking us the tough questions we need to answer (with strategy and technology) to achieve our goals.

Some good questions have been asked here and in the prior board while I was writing my post (sorry for the long delay - while writing I had an emergency medical situation). Here are a few answers:

Our strategic goal is to generate data such that on the night of elections the official results can be compared with our data, discrepancies flagged and analyzed, and the evidence then handed over to legal teams. The lawyers would go into court the next day and ask for an injunction against certification of the results and for an order to investigate the suspicious election system. Our strategy is intended to clear the relatively low hurdle required for a preliminary injunction, which is a much cheaper and easier threshold than definitively proving fraud, by doing so to stimulate further mandated action. In essence it is a "trim tab" strategy a la Buckminster Fuller, in which we make a small change in the pressures acting on a complex system and those pressures (judicial and political in this case) in turn exert a much larger pressure on the system. (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_injunction -- The system is not allowing me to post external links so you'll have to complete these links.)

It has been our goal from the beginning to provide audit evidence in real time, but we have defined "real time" to mean "immediately after the polls close", not "while the voting is going on", because until the voting is closed there are no official results to compare with, making earlier monitoring a useless exercise. (Contrast this with the standard data collection methods used for normal election challenges, which take many months to gather and then maybe convince a judge that the statistical and circumstantial evidence is strong enough for further investigation, meanwhile allowing the usurper to take office and do things like start unjust wars.)

Viz "being real", you can research me easily, as I am all over the web. Here are a few links:
today.law.harvard.edu/feature/a-common-good/ (go the the very end)
jmu.edu/cisr/journal/5.2/notes/danielwolf.htm
linkedin.com/in/danielhwolf

We are following Devin's guidance completely on choice of coin. I have questioned him intensely about the short- and long-term pros and cons of NXT both for utility and security, and am satisfied with it. If we change coins after the beta test in the June 7 California primary election, or after the general election in November, or at any future time, the decision will be taken strictly on the basis of the appropriateness and performance of the coin for our purposes, not because we are fickle or profit-driven, which we are not.

The standards we have adopted as our own may be found here [verifiedvoting.org/voting-system-principles], with the exception that during the audit we may allow voters to be able to prove in court that their audit ballots were recorded per their intentions. This is a violation of the anonymity principle for elections, but the audit is not an election, and the requirement of providing judicially cognizable evidence of audit reliability might require some flexibility on this score. Note, however, that we would not enable this feature in countries where a de-anonymized expression of intention might endanger people.

After November we plan to release the audit system for free use by democracy activists around the world, and to begin collaborating with civil society groups in other countries to create an International Federation of Election Auditors. We will follow this eventually with the release of a true voting system that follows the verifiedvoting.org principles in every relevant respect.

I hope this has not been too long a post; thanks for reading this far!

Dan
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Daniel H. Wolf
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2016, 09:04:49 am »

Welcome to Nxt! A pleasure "to meet" your team

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 3

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2016, 09:13:13 am »

You are welcome to Nxt!!  ;)
happy to see new people!!  :)

NxtSwe

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2016, 09:46:38 am »

You are most welcome to our forum Dan!

Nice to see someone who is not a "crypto nerd" around here.  ;)
When I read the whitepaper I did realize how much there is to consider when building this kind of system and that you will need a flexible platform to build on. I do appreciate your honesty about choice of coin. So far I have not seen problem that could not be solved by using NXT as a platform. But the devil is usually found in the details, and we'll do what we can to help to iron them out together.

I'm looking forward to following venture in the future!
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2016, 02:13:56 pm »

@danielhwolf welcome to the forum.
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danielhwolf

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Re: Introductions & Join ups to Democracy Counts!
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2016, 07:43:21 pm »

Thank you, NxtSwe!

You are right, the things we have to consider are practically endless. I sometimes feel like we're living in a fractal universe, because every time we design a solution to a problem, the next level down provides a new condition in which more problems demanding solutions emerge.

The environment we're stepping into is conveyed by the book about the Clintons titled Blood Sport You might be familiar with the wave of attacks in Congress and the blogosphere on Planned Parenthood in the US last year; I fully expect that if we are successful enough to pose a threat to corrupt interests we will become the next Planned Parenthood attack target. I think it safe to say that the probability is almost 1.0 that there will be major attacks on the database and data transfer systems, not necessarily in this election cycle because we might not be taken seriously until after the general election, but most assuredly later.

So we have to drill down into all the weaknesses and potential issues in the system, both technical and human, and deal with them now before they become Achilles' Heels later. This is one reason we are so fanatically interested in having people troubleshoot our system and identify them now.

So however we all - you all - manage to improve the security and robustness of the NXT blockchain, it will help us a lot and probably help the coin - and the future of democracy in the world - in equal measure.

So bring on those devilish details!

Dan


You are most welcome to our forum Dan!

Nice to see someone who is not a "crypto nerd" around here.  ;)
When I read the whitepaper I did realize how much there is to consider when building this kind of system and that you will need a flexible platform to build on. I do appreciate your honesty about choice of coin. So far I have not seen problem that could not be solved by using NXT as a platform. But the devil is usually found in the details, and we'll do what we can to help to iron them out together.

I'm looking forward to following venture in the future!
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2016, 09:34:57 pm »

Dan!  So glad you made it!

Congrats on your accomplishment.  Although it's a meaningless statistic, you're the first person I've ever seen with a karma score that exceeds their number of posts.  I just finished a huge rant about that topic a few days ago, and now you've blown my base premise out of the water.  Great Job!
People have take action to either applaud or spank you and this effects your karma score. You struck a chord!

Some things for everyone coming to the nxtforums from the outside world to help with democracy counts to keep in mind. 

The audience here is predominantly European, ergo, you can't expect anyone to know about, or have any opinion let alone an informed opinion on internal US political matters.

Dan, in this case you were referencing the coordinated political & hacktivism attacks against the organization known as "Planned Parenthood" and that topic is super divisive in the states. For those who don't know already, the USA does not provide healthcare for it's citizens.  If you need a Dr you either have to have private insurance (expensive) or you're on your own to pay, yet most Drs won't even see you without the right insurance card. 

You cannot be turned away from an "Emergency Room" in a life or death scenario, but you will receive a bill that is on par with buying a new car or a new house if you ever go to the ER.  This is despite the so called "Obama Care".

Planned Parenthood is an organization that focuses on women's reproductive health and provides services on a "sliding fee" scale based on ability pay.  In many cases it's the ONLY option for poor women to receive reproductive health care.  The past few years, abortion has been a hot button topic again and there was a coordinated effort to defund "Planned Parenthood" by making it ineligible for federal & state grants that it should have otherwise been qualified to receive.  These efforts mostly were attempts to discredit the organization or disrupt it's operations.

I get the reference.  We're painting a very large target on our back, so we need to have the very best product out the gate in order to minimize the attack surface.  Nevertheless your turn of phrase was confusing to me and I'm a native English speaker.  The bulk of this group is from Netherlands, Italy etc, I can't imagine how some of this stuff translates out for them.

Dan, when I read it, your phrasing made it sound like you expect Planned Parenthood to attack us :)

Also Dan, NxtSwe is "other Dan".
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Damelon

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2016, 10:41:28 am »

Welcome Daniël :)

We are looking forward to working with you.

So far your team's work looks to be both enthousiastic and open, and that's always refreshing.

I hope we will make this work and help make your vision come true.
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MrCluster87

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 10:18:17 am »

Welcome Daniel,

finally a really interesting real use case scenario to test the potential of this platform.

Really good luck with this project!!

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2016, 02:23:58 am »

Hi All,

   I came across democracycounts.org in my viewing of various twitter posts expressing anger and outrage over what is clearly a rigged primary election this year.   Someone suggested this as a possible solution to the vote rigging.   I was intrigued, and found a phone number to call to offer to volunteer my time (not that there is much of it), as a way of venting my own anger at this outrageousness occurring right out in plain sight.   In any case, I am a programmer of a little over 30 years experience, and hope that some of that can end up being of use in this endeavor.   Devin pointed me to this forum as the place to find the whitepaper and get acquainted with "the team" :)    Looking forward to the upheavals to come! :)

Eric

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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2016, 07:31:36 am »

Hi All,

   I came across democracycounts.org in my viewing of various twitter posts expressing anger and outrage over what is clearly a rigged primary election this year.   Someone suggested this as a possible solution to the vote rigging.   I was intrigued, and found a phone number to call to offer to volunteer my time (not that there is much of it), as a way of venting my own anger at this outrageousness occurring right out in plain sight.   In any case, I am a programmer of a little over 30 years experience, and hope that some of that can end up being of use in this endeavor.   Devin pointed me to this forum as the place to find the whitepaper and get acquainted with "the team" :)    Looking forward to the upheavals to come! :)

Eric

Hi Eric,

We are always on the lookup for new talents.
My recommendation is that you first install NXT, download the blockchain and possibly setup an NXT node on a VPS.
Since you are professional programmer, would be interesting to get your feedback about the process.
For additional sources of information use nxt.org and nxtwiki.org
If after you do that, you also like to participate in the development, send me a message using this forum.
Need to understand your skill-set and see how you can contribute.

Thanks,
Riker
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farl4bit

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2016, 08:38:31 am »

Welcome Eric! Great that you want to spend your precious spare time on Nxt and a decentralized solution for voting.  :)
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2016, 07:53:38 pm »

Riker,

Thanks for the advice.. I will take a stab at your suggestions along with what Devin suggested, and let you know if I hit any snags.

Eric
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2016, 07:07:10 pm »

If this project on track? June 7 is in a little bit more than 2 weeks. I ask because I think this project is very interesting.

Will the beta test take place on main net or test net?
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2016, 04:05:21 pm »

Hi devlux,

How is the project going?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2016, 07:40:17 am »

Hi devlux,

How is the project going?

Actually it's going awesome.  Sorry I've been so quiet.  I moved up north to be closer to this project, but my computer didn't survive the move.  Fortunately the data loss to this project was minimal.  Also I had a huge edge...
Eric who introduced himself earlier has been a HUGE help and if this is successful it will be in large part due to his efforts.

So here's where we stand...

For the purposes of the primary we decided to keep things as simple as possible.  This means we will be using the default NXT voting system, with custom, extremely simple client on top of the existing JSON rest APIs.

It works for the primaries because there are no write in fields we need to accommodate.

In order to control access to the poll, we created a new NXT monetary asset called VOTEUM symbol VOTUM.  It's just an internal marker, not intended for general consumption.

In the next 24hrs we will be performing a dry run by setting up a mock poll exactly like the one we will be using in the real primary.

The purpose of the dry run is to shake out the custom voting client we created, vetting it on as many different devices as possible prior to the primary.  So when the dry run is ready I will be posting instructions on how to download the client.  Once the client is installed, just post your NXT address and I will send some VOTUM so you can participate too.

If you happen to live in California we could really use more boots on the ground, especially technically literate boots.
We are starting to get media attention, and this attention is causing the ranks to swell.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/election-justice-usa/independent-citizens-election-audit-to-be-conducted-in-select-precincts-in-calif/889795561147138

As a side note the "code" talked about in that posting is actually an NXT paper wallet, so we're basically turning every California primary voter into an NXT user too.
Enjoy!

p.s. Riker, the wallet at http://62.194.6.113:7876/index.html is outdated. Since it's kind of the "semi-official webwallet" and linked from the NXT main page, someone really should get that fixed as soon as possible since we will be directing the California primary voters to there to check their results.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2016, 07:53:44 am »

Thank you for update, nice progress. Are you doing this on Testnet or mainnet?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2016, 08:12:35 am »

Thank you for update, nice progress. Are you doing this on Testnet or mainnet?

Mainnet, sorry thought I said that already.  Guess i snipped too much out.
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martismartis

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2016, 08:53:41 am »

Thank you for update, nice progress. Are you doing this on Testnet or mainnet?

Mainnet, sorry thought I said that already.  Guess i snipped too much out.

No worries, just curious why you don't use testnet for code testing? On other hand, it's good to test on mainnet, more fees for forgers :)
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2016, 10:17:41 am »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2016, 10:49:27 am »

Lets not forget about the stress test.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2016, 10:45:08 pm »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Ok thanks.  BTW I've just come to realize that 2/3rds of the cost of doing it this way is going to be getting VOTUM & fee NXT money to all the participants.
This system would be infinitely more useful if polls had a "creator pays fees" option.

Consider this...
Originally we budgeted for 60,000k NXT or 1NXT per expected respondent. (60 locations with 1000 respondents each).
However to limit the number of devices to only those pre-authorized we did as Jean Luc suggested and created this VOTUM token.
To send 1 VOTUM to 60,000 accounts is going to be 60,000 tx's of 1 NXT each.
Additionally we will need to send 1NXT to each account, at a cost of 2NXT, i.e. 1 NXT for deposit and 1 NXT for the fee.

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2016, 05:56:40 am »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Ok thanks.  BTW I've just come to realize that 2/3rds of the cost of doing it this way is going to be getting VOTUM & fee NXT money to all the participants.
This system would be infinitely more useful if polls had a "creator pays fees" option.

Consider this...
Originally we budgeted for 60,000k NXT or 1NXT per expected respondent. (60 locations with 1000 respondents each).
However to limit the number of devices to only those pre-authorized we did as Jean Luc suggested and created this VOTUM token.
To send 1 VOTUM to 60,000 accounts is going to be 60,000 tx's of 1 NXT each.
Additionally we will need to send 1NXT to each account, at a cost of 2NXT, i.e. 1 NXT for deposit and 1 NXT for the fee.

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Can't think of a way around this, you'll need 3 NXT per voter.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2016, 07:26:46 am »

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Interesting project,can't believe I didn't notice before.My suggest is switch to testnet or reduce scale.
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lurker10

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2016, 07:59:55 am »

Interesting how the network will manage the buildup of transactional volume, can't wait to watch it in real time.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2016, 10:01:25 am »

@devlux one thing to consider, is that since you issued a the VOTUM currency without the CONTROLLABLE property, users (voters) can transfer VOTUM between themselves or even trade them using exchange offer/request. Quite sure this is not your intention for democracy counts.
You can still gather all the currency units back to your account then delete the currency and re-issue it as CONTROLLABLE
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2016, 12:10:27 am »

Good to hear your news on the progress so far, DL, looking forward to seeing some Democracy Counts action.  ;D


p.s. Riker, the wallet at http://62.194.6.113:7876/index.html is outdated. Since it's kind of the "semi-official webwallet" and linked from the NXT main page, someone really should get that fixed as soon as possible since we will be directing the California primary voters to there to check their results.

Yeah, the client demo on Nxt.org is mine, and I'm always one of the last to update (lazy, cautious.... ;) ), though I will sort it out over this weekend.
But: I'd strongly recommend that you spin up your own node to use as an official DC result checking node.
I can't give you (or anyone) any guarantees about my nodes accessibility, uptime or performance, and it desperately needs some hardware upgrades.   

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2016, 01:01:29 am »

I dont have access this node perhaps damelon evildave or farla control it. Good luck with project.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Ok thanks.  BTW I've just come to realize that 2/3rds of the cost of doing it this way is going to be getting VOTUM & fee NXT money to all the participants.
This system would be infinitely more useful if polls had a "creator pays fees" option.

Consider this...
Originally we budgeted for 60,000k NXT or 1NXT per expected respondent. (60 locations with 1000 respondents each).
However to limit the number of devices to only those pre-authorized we did as Jean Luc suggested and created this VOTUM token.
To send 1 VOTUM to 60,000 accounts is going to be 60,000 tx's of 1 NXT each.
Additionally we will need to send 1NXT to each account, at a cost of 2NXT, i.e. 1 NXT for deposit and 1 NXT for the fee.

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Can't think of a way around this, you'll need 3 NXT per voter.

I know, I'm just asking if in the future NXT could add a "requester pays fee" option for polls.  I realize there is no way it will make it in time for this primary, but it would be awesome to have come november.  We could even escrow the coin or something upfront.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2016, 01:04:36 am »

@devlux one thing to consider, is that since you issued a the VOTUM currency without the CONTROLLABLE property, users (voters) can transfer VOTUM between themselves or even trade them using exchange offer/request. Quite sure this is not your intention for democracy counts.
You can still gather all the currency units back to your account then delete the currency and re-issue it as CONTROLLABLE

Thanks I didn't notice that.  I'll get that done here as soon as possible.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2016, 01:06:22 am »

Good to hear your news on the progress so far, DL, looking forward to seeing some Democracy Counts action.  ;D


p.s. Riker, the wallet at http://62.194.6.113:7876/index.html is outdated. Since it's kind of the "semi-official webwallet" and linked from the NXT main page, someone really should get that fixed as soon as possible since we will be directing the California primary voters to there to check their results.

Yeah, the client demo on Nxt.org is mine, and I'm always one of the last to update (lazy, cautious.... ;) ), though I will sort it out over this weekend.
But: I'd strongly recommend that you spin up your own node to use as an official DC result checking node.
I can't give you (or anyone) any guarantees about my nodes accessibility, uptime or performance, and it desperately needs some hardware upgrades.   

Thanks, I'm planning to spin nodes this weekend and have a list that users can choose from.  But yours is public and visible so it makes an obvious "hey don't believe us, check out the official thingy!"
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2016, 01:11:56 am »

So now instead of 60,000 or even 120,000, were's looking at 180,000 NXT.

If we didn't have to send funds to these accounts ahead of time and could just send them each a token it would save us a third on costs.
As it stands right now we need to acquire 120,000k NXT more than originally planned or switch over to testnet.

Interesting project,can't believe I didn't notice before.My suggest is switch to testnet or reduce scale.

Switching to testnet is under consideration for cost purposes. 
Right now though the code is using peerexplorer to find open nodes, and I don't see a clean way to find open nodes on testnet. 
We have enough traffic I worry about directing it to even a handful of nodes under our own control, but I also don't see any other way to get this info onto testnet.

Original plan was to have everything on the devices including what amounts to a full wallet with all the crypto stuff right there and talking directly to the network in a peer to peer fashion.  But we had to change that up once we realized we were going to have to go BYOD with our volunteers because some expected funding we were going to use to acquire our own devices did not materialize in time.  It kind of changed the initial design constraints of the system.  So for now it's just picking an open node at random and using the RESTful API.
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martismartis

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2016, 03:55:09 am »

https://test.nxtportal.org/peers/

Just don't know how to retrieve randomly these nodes for code, but maybe it is possible.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2016, 04:08:10 am »

I work with a bunch of silly election integrity advocates on FB and would like to help here if possible. I got my wallet (needed fixed?) and now need votums.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2016, 05:03:48 am »

https://test.nxtportal.org/peers/

Just don't know how to retrieve randomly these nodes for code, but maybe it is possible.

Oh wow, thanks!  I think you just saved my bacon.  If those are all test nodes, then we just pick a random number between 0 and number of nodes and use that node for that vote.

Again thanks!
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2016, 05:04:46 am »

I work with a bunch of silly election integrity advocates on FB and would like to help here if possible. I got my wallet (needed fixed?) and now need votums.

Hi Dael, nice to meet you.  I need your NXT address.  Should start with NXT-SOMETHING
Upper left corner of the wallet.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2016, 12:38:37 pm »

NXT-XPCH-TGAW-AGW5-2W9ZK
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2016, 03:10:19 pm »

installed 1.8.3 and getting blocks.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2016, 03:14:14 pm »

installed 1.8.3 and getting blocks.

If this takes too long you can find a snapshot of the Nxt blockchain database here:
http://www.peerexplorer.com
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2016, 03:17:13 pm »

how long either way? it's a download? ok about 700mB I think I will let it roll for now, I saved the link in case for later.
any relation to peer block? ;)

« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 03:27:40 pm by dael »
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Damelon

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2016, 04:31:20 pm »

how long either way? it's a download? ok about 700mB I think I will let it roll for now, I saved the link in case for later.
any relation to peer block? ;)

A blockchain download is never a straight download, so it will take longer to have it working than a download of a similar size.
All transactions need to be verified while downloading. So don't be surprised it takes quite a while longer than you'd expect.
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VanBreuk

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2016, 08:14:44 pm »

@Dael - if you download the blockchain using the Nxt client, the verification process mentioned by Damelon takes place (as every block is received, everything is checked and added to local database) so it takes longer, but you're getting it straight from the live Nxt network.

If you download the blockchain using the snapshot linked by Cryptkeeper, it should go as fast as your bandwidth (and peerexplorer's) allows, because you're downloading a snapshot of the database folder, already built. The only downside of this method is that it requires to trust the source, since you're not retrieving the information from the live network but a "pre-verified" copy.

Of course in this case the trustworthiness of Peerexplorer seems out of question.

Generally it is good advice to download the blockchain using the client. But an option like the Peerexplorer DB snapshot can be useful if you're in a rush.
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dael

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2016, 10:24:21 pm »

349011 left whuhaaa hours later 8 from client. Now how would an android.iphone app deal with this? ;P

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VanBreuk

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2016, 11:06:06 pm »

349011 left whuhaaa hours later 8 from client. Now how would an android.iphone app deal with this? ;P

It would use a light client and contact to public nodes :) with no blockchain download.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2016, 11:40:01 pm »

349011 left whuhaaa hours later 8 from client. Now how would an android.iphone app deal with this? ;P

It would use a light client and contact to public nodes :) with no blockchain download.

Which I should add is exactly how the voting app works.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2016, 12:25:05 am »

It's official, we gotta do this on testnet.  Sorry I know I said mainnet before.  But testnet is actually better for a number of important reasons, the primary one being we don't want to accidentally DDoS mainnet and I just got word we have WAY more precincts than initially bargained for.
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2016, 06:23:23 am »

It's official, we gotta do this on testnet.  Sorry I know I said mainnet before.  But testnet is actually better for a number of important reasons, the primary one being we don't want to accidentally DDoS mainnet and I just got word we have WAY more precincts than initially bargained for.

As long as you consider this project a test there is no reason not to run it on the testnet (we can't prevent you from doing so anyway) just beware of the following implications:
1. Currently testnet has only 6 active nodes.
2. There are several operational parameters on the testnet which are different than on mainnet, for example it requires only one fork confirmation instead of two and it allows forging a block after 5 minutes instead of an hour for any node.
3. We reserve the option of doing a rollback on testnet whenever it's necessary for development purposes so you may end up losing your vote history at some point in time.
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2016, 06:53:32 am »

4. Very few accounts forge on testnet, me being one of the main forgers when my node goes down often testnet just stops.

5. The 1.9 hard fork will happen in a week or two on testnet, when 1.9 is released make sure to upgrade.
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Nextshares

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2016, 11:09:02 am »

Wait for v1.9.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2016, 09:28:38 pm »

Wait for v1.9.

I don't think I can ask the State of California to hold off on the primary until 1.9 is released :D
Well i guess we can ask, I just don't think it will net the desired effect.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2016, 09:36:15 pm »

It's official, we gotta do this on testnet.  Sorry I know I said mainnet before.  But testnet is actually better for a number of important reasons, the primary one being we don't want to accidentally DDoS mainnet and I just got word we have WAY more precincts than initially bargained for.

As long as you consider this project a test there is no reason not to run it on the testnet (we can't prevent you from doing so anyway) just beware of the following implications:
1. Currently testnet has only 6 active nodes.
2. There are several operational parameters on the testnet which are different than on mainnet, for example it requires only one fork confirmation instead of two and it allows forging a block after 5 minutes instead of an hour for any node.
3. We reserve the option of doing a rollback on testnet whenever it's necessary for development purposes so you may end up losing your vote history at some point in time.

Thanks and yes these are all deeply concerning which is why we keep flipflopping on mainnet vs testnet.
We can add nodes to testnet as easily as we can add them to mainnet.  The act of forging requires some coin though even on testnet, so we need to square that away.

#3 is the only one that is a major concern for us.  If you can give us a guarantee of  not reseting the blockchain for a few days though we have a solution.
It basically involves snapshotting the blockchain at the end of the primary, uploading it to bittorrent via a magnet link and storing that magnet link as a non-prunable plaintext message on the mainnet blockchain.  We then ask folks who wish to view the raw dataset to download and install NXT and torrent the testnet blockchain and import that.
3 days gives us time to snapshot the data, get it up and get a few seeds going.

Is that the best path for doing this you think?
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2016, 10:03:37 pm »

Primary are in 2 days if i'm not mistaken. If you need to send 1 Nxt and 1 MS coin to 60k accounts. It will take about 8 hours to do so, if everything go smooth.

I suggest you ask for testnet NXT in this topic:
https://nxtforum.org/testnet/some-testnxt-to-test-asset-exchange/
Do not use your real passphrase on testnet.

However, I would love to see this in action on mainnet tought :-)


« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 10:16:51 pm by Sebastien256 »
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2016, 10:15:43 pm »

Primary are in 2 days if i'm not mistaken. If you need to send 1 Nxt and 1 MS coin to 60k accounts. It will take about 8 hours to do so, if everything go smooth.

I suggest you ask for testnet NXT in this topic:
https://nxtforum.org/testnet/some-testnxt-to-test-asset-exchange/
Do not use your real passphrase on testnet.

However, I would love to see this in action on mainnet tought :-)

I do too.  But if this works we will be using mainnet for the November elections.  Oddly that one is easier to do than the Primary.  With the Primary there are certain parties that allow you to vote in their primary even if you aren't a party a member, while there are other parties who don't allow for this.  Having restrictions like this including some on the district level are proving to be extremely complex.  But we're getting there.

Good idea about the testnxt request.  I'll get on that right away.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2016, 10:17:35 pm »

If done on testnet, it seems it will be a nightmare to tell people how to check the data. It will take obviously a lot of computer skills, and if it is plan to give access of this data to the public, good luck with that! On mainnet, everything will be accesible easily on the blockchain explorer.

What the plan about this? Do the data need to be accessible by the public?
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2016, 10:20:08 pm »

Edit:
If done on testnet, it seems it will be a nightmare to tell people how to check the data. It will take obviously a lot of computer skills, and if it is plan to give access of this data to the public, good luck with that! On mainnet, everything will be accesible easily on the blockchain explorer.

I know, these are all raging questions we're attempting to address.  At least for the short term (while the data remains on the testnet blockchain), it's verifiable using the regular testnet blockexplorers.  But it gets tricky after the next testnet reset.

Do you have any ideas for this, because it's open suggestion time.

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2016, 10:21:55 pm »

If done on testnet, it seems it will be a nightmare to tell people how to check the data. It will take obviously a lot of computer skills, and if it is plan to give access of this data to the public, good luck with that! On mainnet, everything will be accesible easily on the blockchain explorer.

What the plan about this? Do the data need to be accessible by the public?

It basically involves snapshotting the blockchain at the end of the primary, uploading it to bittorrent via a magnet link and storing that magnet link as a non-prunable plaintext message on the mainnet blockchain.  We then ask folks who wish to view the raw dataset to download and install NXT and torrent the testnet blockchain and import that for analysis.  It is after just a SQL DB.
3 days gives us time to snapshot the data, get it up and get a few seeds going.

Is that the best path for doing this you think?
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2016, 10:23:27 pm »

Unfortunalky, I don't have suggestion on this. My concern is that you may be overwhelm with technical support to give to the public if the test is done on testnet.
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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2016, 10:24:56 pm »

It basically involves snapshotting the blockchain at the end of the primary, uploading it to bittorrent via a magnet link and storing that magnet link as a non-prunable plaintext message on the mainnet blockchain.  We then ask folks who wish to view the raw dataset to download and install NXT and torrent the testnet blockchain and import that for analysis.  It is after just a SQL DB.


That what I thought. This is a complete nightmare if you are not a programmer.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2016, 10:38:32 pm »

It basically involves snapshotting the blockchain at the end of the primary, uploading it to bittorrent via a magnet link and storing that magnet link as a non-prunable plaintext message on the mainnet blockchain.  We then ask folks who wish to view the raw dataset to download and install NXT and torrent the testnet blockchain and import that for analysis.  It is after just a SQL DB.


That what I thought. This is a complete nightmare if you are not a programmer.

I dunno about that.  H2 db files can be opened by a number of data analysis tools.  Yeah it's a nightmare if you're two years on, don't understand the system etc.  But the data is there, it is available and it can be consumed by open tools.  At some level though, if you're analyzing large data sets you either need to BE a programmer or BUY one.  Any off the shelf coder can help you analyze the data.  What this does is help to ensure that it's available and that you get exactly the same data that present in the initial analysis.

Nevertheless, open to ideas here.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2016, 10:46:28 pm »

So back to my original question, do the (public) voters needs to be able to see their own vote after the election?

If yes, then testnet is a freaking bad idea, imho. Otherwise, if you expect only pro to be able to verify the data, then everthing seems fine.

I am myself an experienced programmer for scientific computing and I am, in my friends circle, by far the most technically computer skilled person. I would have to dig in to figure how to verify that my vote is correctly register.
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EvilDave

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2016, 11:31:38 pm »

Going to kick some testNXT in your direction, Dev.

How much would you like in total, and can you confirm that NXT-HHPG-GRXT-HYXS-3FD2H is your testNet account ?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2016, 11:52:57 pm »

So back to my original question, do the (public) voters needs to be able to see their own vote after the election?

If yes, then testnet is a freaking bad idea, imho. Otherwise, if you expect only pro to be able to verify the data, then everthing seems fine.

I am myself an experienced programmer for scientific computing and I am, in my friends circle, by far the most technically computer skilled person. I would have to dig in to figure how to verify that my vote is correctly register.

Yes voters need to be able to see their vote after the election.  Two options for that I think.
First would be to encourage them to download NXT and sync the blockchain so they can understand what they're looking at.

Second would be to point them at https://test.nxtportal.org/polls which will have the data for up to 24hrs after polls close.
Right?  Or am I missing something?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2016, 11:58:50 pm »

Going to kick some testNXT in your direction, Dev.

How much would you like in total, and can you confirm that NXT-HHPG-GRXT-HYXS-3FD2H is your testNet account ?

Yes that's the correct account.  We're looking at 3NXT per voter for a single data point and 1 extra NXT per additional datapoint.  The total datapoints we collect will be largely dependent upon the amount of NXT we have in place at poll creation time.  But with 100k voters we need 300k just to ask them who they voted selected for president.  Another 100k to cover the senate candidates,  Then there are demographics questions, but it's likely that demographics will have a much lower response rate, still the cost ends up about the same.  So 400k covers us for president and senate.

Also thanks for the donations of testNXT!
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EvilDave

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2016, 12:19:08 am »

Sent you 200k a while ago, I'll send another 200k now, then I'm off to bed.
https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/1693755288367644334

Have fun, and I'd consider checking if:
https://test.nxtportal.org
can handle the projected visitor load.

(and if anyone feels like topping up my testNXT account after this: https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/16936981465227549021)
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2016, 12:45:16 am »

Sent you 200k a while ago, I'll send another 200k now, then I'm off to bed.
https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/1693755288367644334

Have fun, and I'd consider checking if:
https://test.nxtportal.org
can handle the projected visitor load.

(and if anyone feels like topping up my testNXT account after this: https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/16936981465227549021)

Like Pokemon, I got them all :D
Thanks again!
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2016, 01:24:39 am »

Have fun, and I'd consider checking if:
https://test.nxtportal.org
can handle the projected visitor load.

(and if anyone feels like topping up my testNXT account after this: https://test.nxtportal.org/accounts/16936981465227549021)

I've reached out to the owner, of nxtportal.  I had assumed that the NXT foundation was the owner until this posting. 
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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Block download numbers increasing not decreasing?
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2016, 05:52:42 am »

Blockchain needed download constantly going up?
looks like 1500 a day. How big is a block
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Re: Block download numbers increasing not decreasing?
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2016, 06:04:13 am »

Blockchain needed download constantly going up?
looks like 1500 a day. How big is a block

If you are downloading the mainnet blockchain, here is a quick guuide.
Stop NXT client, go to http://peerexplorer.com/peerexplorer-api, download the full blockchain from https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5vrimeapjbwz2o/nxt_db_peerexplorer.zip?dl=1
extract to your NXT folder and you're ready.
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2016, 07:00:29 am »

@devlux - I think you need to scale back your deployment plans, today is June 6th, elections are in 3 days. Whatever you don't have now it's almost too late to prepare.
In Agistri last year, to get 30 people to pay for their meals in NXT we needed 3 full time personal on the ground and I believe the tooling we had back then are more mature than what you have now.
The excellent nxt portal site is not a good solution for this purpose since you'll need to explain blocks and transactions to people who just came to vote.
The more I think about it, deploying this on testnet, while possible, defeats the whole purpose.

If I were you, I would scale this back and set a goal of 200 voters in two schools, run it on mainnet, gather feedback, improve the tools and then try again on a larger scale.
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2016, 10:42:33 am »

@devlux - I think you need to scale back your deployment plans, today is June 6th, elections are in 3 days. Whatever you don't have now it's almost too late to prepare.
In Agistri last year, to get 30 people to pay for their meals in NXT we needed 3 full time personal on the ground and I believe the tooling we had back then are more mature than what you have now.
The excellent nxt portal site is not a good solution for this purpose since you'll need to explain blocks and transactions to people who just came to vote.
The more I think about it, deploying this on testnet, while possible, defeats the whole purpose.

If I were you, I would scale this back and set a goal of 200 voters in two schools, run it on mainnet, gather feedback, improve the tools and then try again on a larger scale.

Duly noted. 
What is the secret recipe for getting a currency issued that is not exchangeable?  Literally just a filter so only approved accounts can vote in the polls, but so we can approve accounts after the poll is created?  Seems like every combination of options I can think of except just straight up exchangable is failing to actually create a coin because of some rule or another blocking issuance.
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Riker

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2016, 11:12:14 am »

@devlux - I think you need to scale back your deployment plans, today is June 6th, elections are in 3 days. Whatever you don't have now it's almost too late to prepare.
In Agistri last year, to get 30 people to pay for their meals in NXT we needed 3 full time personal on the ground and I believe the tooling we had back then are more mature than what you have now.
The excellent nxt portal site is not a good solution for this purpose since you'll need to explain blocks and transactions to people who just came to vote.
The more I think about it, deploying this on testnet, while possible, defeats the whole purpose.

If I were you, I would scale this back and set a goal of 200 voters in two schools, run it on mainnet, gather feedback, improve the tools and then try again on a larger scale.

Duly noted. 
What is the secret recipe for getting a currency issued that is not exchangeable?  Literally just a filter so only approved accounts can vote in the polls, but so we can approve accounts after the poll is created?  Seems like every combination of options I can think of except just straight up exchangable is failing to actually create a coin because of some rule or another blocking issuance.

You need to set the Exchangeable+Controllable properties when you issue the currency, this way only the issuer account can publish an exchange offer and all transfers must involve the issuer account as either sender or recipient. This way if you don't publish an exchange offer, users cannot trade between themselves and transfers can only involve your account.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 11:59:04 am by Riker »
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dael

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Re: Block download numbers increasing not decreasing?
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2016, 03:45:31 pm »

Blockchain needed download constantly going up?
looks like 1500 a day. How big is a block

If you are downloading the mainnet blockchain, here is a quick guuide.
Stop NXT client, >>>snip links>>>

not getting the API as a vehicle to Download I am trying this link in microsoft download but not working dropbox  /s / p5vrimeapjbwz2o/ nxt_db_peerexplorer.zip
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dael

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2016, 03:48:59 pm »

got it pasted dropbox. link peerexplorer.zip?dl=1 into chrome
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lurker10

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2016, 04:31:16 pm »

Is this about to begin?
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devlux

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2016, 04:50:15 am »

Is this about to begin?

We tried to break murphy's law and murphy wrote us a ticket for it anyways :D 

I'm doing a post mortem but we gathered some extremely valuable data unfortunately it never made it to the NXT blockchain.  Thankfully we had quite a bit of app redundancy and even the NXT enabled app had a backup DB by way of firebase.  At the moment we're pulling in data.  Should have a full official report in the next day or so.

FYI I have quite a lot of test NXT to return, where do I send it?  Thanks!
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wolffang

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2016, 06:10:15 pm »

Too bad it didnt go as hoped,  but must be great lessons learned, right?
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qq2536007339

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2016, 09:17:28 am »

Is this about to begin?

We tried to break murphy's law and murphy wrote us a ticket for it anyways :D 

I'm doing a post mortem but we gathered some extremely valuable data unfortunately it never made it to the NXT blockchain.  Thankfully we had quite a bit of app redundancy and even the NXT enabled app had a backup DB by way of firebase.  At the moment we're pulling in data.  Should have a full official report in the next day or so.

Did you have a full official report now? I would love to see it.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2016, 09:47:14 am »

How goes the preparation for november election?
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Jose

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2016, 06:24:07 am »

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bcdev

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2016, 07:21:12 pm »

It looks like the project is dead.
Quote from: devlux
Last Active: June 08, 2016, 08:39:40 pm
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NxtSwe

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2016, 08:51:21 pm »

I've reached out to devlux for a comment, haven't seen him around in a while.
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Sandra Lewis

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Re: Introductions & Join ups
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2016, 05:46:27 am »

Hi.  I usually have a pulse.  I know nothing of computers or tech stuff.  I have a cell phone. It takes good pics.  I type h&p slowly.  I am in CA, a vet, retired school teacher, life long politics hater recently turned Berner, and enraged over election fraud.  I have been working some with Ray Lutz and Citizens Oversight attempting to wake people up and recruit volunteers through FB for their audit oversight project.  I came across Melissa Schwartz's video and thought  I should check you out.   

Your project seems pretty amazing. What is the status now and how do I keep current?

Below is what I have been posting as widely as I know how (not very) and hoping others will share.  I notice Democracy Counts is not among the sites I listed.  That is possibly because when I first went to your site it was blocked as a phishing site....  anyway here's my post.

Ok folks, TRUTH TIME.  We are WASTING precious time arguing.  The $$$$ in charge doesn't give a rat's ass who we vote for.  THEY CONTROL who wins.  Unless we get enough people to guard the November election our vote will be completely irrelevant.  IF you really give a damn about your candidate you will commit to some boots on the ground action to do this.                                                                 Here is the citizens' Oversight Project that I think has a good chance of helping produce a more valid election in Nov.  This is copied from their website. They need volunteers,  actual breathing bodies! Especially in the 175 largest counties. ** citizensoversight ** I suggest you go there right now and sign up. They will hook you up with people in your area. There are people there from all over the country..  Lot's more people are needed.  Here is a short paste from their site.
***** Election Oversight
Citizens' Oversight is expanding our election oversight scope to the entire US! However, we will be focused primarily on the TOP 175 counties in the nation, comprising more than 50% of registered voters, and then secondly turning our attention to the TOP 20% of the the top 20% of the states (i.e. the top ten states).
VOLUNTEER AS AN ELECTION INTEGRITY OBSERVER -- Sign Up
Organizing Page for this project: Election Team
Related databases and information archives, we have dedicated an entire web for this purpose: Elections.Web Home
Lawsuit against San Diego Registrar Michael Vu: Election Audit Lawsuit     
****
This is my rant...............
No matter who runs, the election fraud will be massive in every state.  We must start training armies of poll watchers and voting supporters NOW.  We must contact every high school and college teacher of civics, political science, government, statistics, history, or any related field to interest students in helping in some way.  We also need to start organized citizen calling,  letter writing, and media barrages to local and state registrars to put them on notice that voter turnouts will be huge so they MUST open more polling places and assure enough ballots.  We must have honest citizens working the polling places whenever possible.  We need teams to provide physical support (water, chairs, umbrellas, blankets, phones, xx??) where long lines are forced.  We really only have 2 months to do this.   If you are a member of any organization talk to them about the importance of honest, open elections.  Sign up to work or watch a polling place.  Join election integrity groups like these.    (these were links)
 blackboxvoting.or/     
 trustvote.or/media-resources/practical-activism/
 electionfraud2016.wordpress.co/         
facebook.co/groups/watchthevote2012/           
facebook.co/groups/OccRE/
 independentvoterproject.or/
 866ourvote.or/
 resetbuttonmovement.or/
  facebook.co/ElectionJusticeUSA/
Copy and paste this and spread it everywhere you can.  Print it as posters or flyers and spread hard copies.
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