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MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE. singapore
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Author Topic: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.  (Read 231420 times)

Nxter

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #760 on: August 07, 2015, 03:12:10 pm »

what would be the price of repurchasing?
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Sebastien256

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #761 on: August 07, 2015, 03:12:57 pm »

what would be the price of repurchasing?

Market price.
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tersagun

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #762 on: August 07, 2015, 03:57:37 pm »


Please read this and inform yourself on the impact of buyback program on the long term. I will not get into a number debate.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/112013/impact-share-repurchases.asp

I don't really have much information or wisdom about finance so that's why I'm trying to figure it out. Those are my humble questions and concerns. Maybe someone else will come up with numbers.

The example on that link doesn't exactly apple to our case. And I'm not against the buy-back policy in general, I just don't see it fit in this case.
In real-world, 1 year is mid-term, 5 years is long-term. In crypto, 1 year is long-term, 3 years is eternity.

If someone would show my mistake in the following calculations I'll gladly thank him and vote for the buy-back policy, too.


Simplified numbers:
Average weekly profit: 60000 NXT
Current MMNXT in circulation: 8200000
Current MMNXT price: 1.05 NXT

With 25% buyback:
After 6 months:
60000*0.25*26 =390000 NXT used to purchase 370000 MMNXT leaving a total of 7830000 MMNXT in circulation  ==> 45000/7830000=0.00574 NXT per share
After 24 months:
60000*0.25*104=1560000 NXT used to purchase 1355000 MMNXT (assuming asset price climbed very little for an average price of 1.15) ==> 45000/6845000=0.00657 NXT per share

100000 MMNXT would bring ~ 62400 NXT

With current business plan:
0.00731 NXT per share

100000 MMNXT would bring ~ 76000 NXT


So even after 2 years, I don't see the dividend catching up which is really, really distant future. If you want to cash out after 2 years, with the higher asset price, you will profit more though. Buy-back program will be helpful to increase the asset price IF current investors won't leave in this 2 year period which would decrease back the asset price. Losing 25% short-term profit will definitely move away some investors but not sure how many.


(We should assume weekly profits to remain the same for the relativity purposes. Assuming profits will sky-rocket doesn't mean anything as it would increase exactly that much on the other scenario, too)
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coinomat

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #763 on: August 07, 2015, 03:57:50 pm »

The thing here is we have two quite different groups of asset holders
those who care about the dividends
and those who are more interested in the asset price growth

there has to be some trade off here. Looks like 25% option is the way to go
I don't endorse it and did not vote myself. probably I care more about the asset price at the moment, but you're to decide.
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maxll

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #764 on: August 08, 2015, 08:26:16 am »

probably I care more about the asset price at the moment, but you're to decide.

So, if you care about the asset price, please burn ~40mln assets which are not distributed at the moment first. Then I would be more than happy to vote for weekly burning 25% of MY dividents.
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Lagb

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #765 on: August 08, 2015, 09:31:11 am »

So, if you care about the asset price, please burn ~40mln assets which are not distributed at the moment first. Then I would be more than happy to vote for weekly burning 25% of MY dividents.

+1  ;)
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tersagun

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #766 on: August 08, 2015, 10:35:30 am »

Well, maybe not all the 40M but he needs to keep some assets for a possible capital increase in the future. What happens if thing go very well and he's in need of some more capital to utilize?

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PureVision

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #767 on: August 08, 2015, 11:15:50 am »

Would the 25% for the buyback come from 100% of the profits? Or only out of the dividends paid to asset holders?
At the moment 60% of profits go to assetholders as dividends, and 40% goes to coinomat.

It would make a big difference if the money is only coming out of the investor's pocket, while coinomat get's to keep his full 40% profit.
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coinomat

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #768 on: August 08, 2015, 11:19:53 am »

Would the 25% for the buyback come from 100% of the profits? Or only out of the dividends paid to asset holders?
At the moment 60% of profits go to assetholders as dividends, and 40% goes to coinomat.

It would make a big difference if the money is only coming out of the investor's pocket, while coinomat get's to keep his full 40% profit.
Actually we pay the full 100% profits. I trade my own funds too.
so 25% is from 100% profits
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coinomat

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #769 on: August 08, 2015, 11:21:43 am »

They are escrowed with NXTi, probably you've missed this development.
So, if you care about the asset price, please burn ~40mln assets which are not distributed at the moment first. Then I would be more than happy to vote for weekly burning 25% of MY dividents.

+1  ;)
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PureVision

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #770 on: August 08, 2015, 11:25:09 am »

Would the 25% for the buyback come from 100% of the profits? Or only out of the dividends paid to asset holders?
At the moment 60% of profits go to assetholders as dividends, and 40% goes to coinomat.

It would make a big difference if the money is only coming out of the investor's pocket, while coinomat get's to keep his full 40% profit.
Actually we pay the full 100% profits. I trade my own funds too.
so 25% is from 100% profits

Ooh, I didn't know that. The openingpost states that only 60% paid as dividends.
Maybe it's a good idea to change the openingpost, to avoid confusion :)
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whatnxt

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #771 on: August 08, 2015, 03:17:34 pm »

Quote
karlkarlsson [6:25 PM]
it doesn't really matter in the end, profit is profit. however, for major companies a public share buyback program is a sign of good management

I hope that is sarcasm from karlkarlsson! Buybacks have a tendency to be at the top of the market when the people running the company have run out of ideas and just want to make their bonus. Buying back at the top of the market is always a stupid thing to do!

That said we are not at the top of the market, but why is this?

I think we are missing an option.
MMNXT has been in a back water from the marketing point of view since you moved to your own Cryptoassets.fund Projects forum.

If you want to move the price up try maintaining a dividend thread in the Asset Board before you start trying to manipulate the price.


For myself I was happy to hold which I know speculators are not happy to hear. If we move to a buy back, however, I will probably sellout.
My reasoning is as follows:
The buy back is unlikely to be good for the asset, since speculators know you  have to buy and how much (roughly) so they will push the price up to take advantage. Wow you succeeded to push the price up, congrats. The yield for future buyers is much less attractive though :( so no one with any sense will buy except to speculate. You are also buying at the top of the market :( welcome to the group of stupid investors that we like to call numpties, because you like a big fall.

But what does this increase in price mean? The asset is not better than before so it means a significant amount of the future earnings have been brought forward. Welcome to the pump and dump.

If that happens there is no point holding on to the asset for dividend because a lot of it is already available just by selling. There is no plan to grow the asset the reduction in assets only pushes up the price and reduces the yield.

Prices will go up and down as you pump and others dump. This may make the speculators amongst us happy but it is no good for your asset or your reputation.

I stand by by original advice.
If you want to push the price then start a thread on the Asset board reporting the dividend and start to market the asset.
 
Edit:
Just to be clear, I will wait until a good amount of the income is in the price before I dump.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 04:08:35 pm by whatnxt »
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Sebastien256

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #772 on: August 08, 2015, 06:34:49 pm »

~44% participation at the moment. If you did not vote, please do so.
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coinomat

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #773 on: August 08, 2015, 09:17:01 pm »

Quote
karlkarlsson [6:25 PM]
it doesn't really matter in the end, profit is profit. however, for major companies a public share buyback program is a sign of good management

I hope that is sarcasm from karlkarlsson! Buybacks have a tendency to be at the top of the market when the people running the company have run out of ideas and just want to make their bonus. Buying back at the top of the market is always a stupid thing to do!

That said we are not at the top of the market, but why is this?

I think we are missing an option.
MMNXT has been in a back water from the marketing point of view since you moved to your own Cryptoassets.fund Projects forum.

If you want to move the price up try maintaining a dividend thread in the Asset Board before you start trying to manipulate the price.


For myself I was happy to hold which I know speculators are not happy to hear. If we move to a buy back, however, I will probably sellout.
My reasoning is as follows:
The buy back is unlikely to be good for the asset, since speculators know you  have to buy and how much (roughly) so they will push the price up to take advantage. Wow you succeeded to push the price up, congrats. The yield for future buyers is much less attractive though :( so no one with any sense will buy except to speculate. You are also buying at the top of the market :( welcome to the group of stupid investors that we like to call numpties, because you like a big fall.

But what does this increase in price mean? The asset is not better than before so it means a significant amount of the future earnings have been brought forward. Welcome to the pump and dump.

If that happens there is no point holding on to the asset for dividend because a lot of it is already available just by selling. There is no plan to grow the asset the reduction in assets only pushes up the price and reduces the yield.

Prices will go up and down as you pump and others dump. This may make the speculators amongst us happy but it is no good for your asset or your reputation.

I stand by by original advice.
If you want to push the price then start a thread on the Asset board reporting the dividend and start to market the asset.
 
Edit:
Just to be clear, I will wait until a good amount of the income is in the price before I dump.
Actually it should be clear that MMNXT price does not concern me that much, I consider it to be just a part of the marketing you mention.
The advice about moving back to asset board section is interesting.  This thread is quite alive, I don't think it matters so much. Maybe I'll make some thread there about all our assets.
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whatnxt

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #774 on: August 09, 2015, 03:30:01 am »

Actually it should be clear that MMNXT price does not concern me that much, I consider it to be just a part of the marketing you mention.
The advice about moving back to asset board section is interesting.  This thread is quite alive, I don't think it matters so much. Maybe I'll make some thread there about all our assets.

Since you have to actively choose to look at the price, I think it comes after the marketing in importance.
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whatnxt

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #775 on: August 10, 2015, 05:48:19 am »

Looks like we voted for buying at the top of the market by just over 7%. Quite a small margin considering.

The price has already gone up, around 13+ weeks of dividend have been brought forward so far. This is in the right ball park for a 25% repurchase (25% of a year in simple minded terms) so we are already at the top anything more is pure speculation.

Is there anyone out there watching and thinking, the price is going up, I should buy?
Or
Is it the same old group, who know what is happening, and are thinking the buys have not moved! If anything it has gone down!

In any case from now on we will be buying at the top of the market and burning 25% of the divi at a loss compared to individual reinvesting. Numpty land here we come! :(

So what happens next?

Edit: correction to numbers...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 06:10:50 am by whatnxt »
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coinomat

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #776 on: August 10, 2015, 07:04:48 am »

Looks like we voted for buying at the top of the market by just over 7%. Quite a small margin considering.

The price has already gone up, around 13+ weeks of dividend have been brought forward so far. This is in the right ball park for a 25% repurchase (25% of a year in simple minded terms) so we are already at the top anything more is pure speculation.

Is there anyone out there watching and thinking, the price is going up, I should buy?
Or
Is it the same old group, who know what is happening, and are thinking the buys have not moved! If anything it has gone down!

In any case from now on we will be buying at the top of the market and burning 25% of the divi at a loss compared to individual reinvesting. Numpty land here we come! :(

So what happens next?

Edit: correction to numbers...
Well, people expect the asset price to rise, and this totally makes sense.  We're hovering near IPO price now, and performance is stable. So growth is natural,
buy back should only contribute to this.
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tersagun

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #777 on: August 10, 2015, 07:04:59 am »

25% of total investors voted for buyback which is impressive on such a short notice. Even though total votes remained below 50% (I did not vote for this particular reason) I won't object if buyback comes in.

I'll sell all my assets when the price hits back 1.30 though.
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coinomat

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #778 on: August 10, 2015, 07:29:23 am »

25% of total investors voted for buyback which is impressive on such a short notice. Even though total votes remained below 50% (I did not vote for this particular reason) I won't object if buyback comes in.

I'll sell all my assets when the price hits back 1.30 though.
Sorry for such a short voting period, I have to look deeper into voting plug-in. I'm dead sure that I set it to be next Friday.
MMNXT has a long way to go, so trade as you see fit :)
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whatnxt

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Re: MMNXT - market making and arbitrage fund for NXT AE.
« Reply #779 on: August 10, 2015, 07:54:58 am »

Well, people expect the asset price to rise, and this totally makes sense.  We're hovering near IPO price now, and performance is stable. So growth is natural,
buy back should only contribute to this.

When the buy orders catch up then we could call it a success, however, my buy level went down because of the vote, not up.
You need to get new blood, who have a different perspective.
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