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Author Topic: Nxt 2.0 design  (Read 210706 times)

Jetboy

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2016, 01:33:58 pm »

- MILK (motherchain token)

MILK - fNXT 1-0
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EvilDave

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2016, 02:01:31 pm »

If we're going to be picking names: I'd call the motherchain 'Legion' :
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/legion
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Seccour

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2016, 02:05:54 pm »

" " Child chains will compete with each other for inclusion into a block "

[5:37]
If NXT can't be included in a block we are fuck. Because he don't want to make an exception for NXT

[5:37]
This NXT 2.0 will kill NXT "

Since NXT will become childchain like any other, this NXT 2.0 could kill NXT with more childchain. So have you any plans for that or your opinion is "let's the market decide if NXT have to survive or not to your NXT 2.0" ?
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Cassius

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2016, 02:10:50 pm »

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EvilDave

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2016, 02:22:10 pm »

We are many......


But, seriously, guys: Slack debate is all fine and good......but even with archiving, the best place for the NXT 2.0 discussion is here on the forum.
Figuring out the perfect plan for side/child-chain implementation is going to take a lot of discussion, and that discussion needs to be publicly visible and permanently recorded. 

Slack is fine for letting off some steam, but real policy-setting discussions should be here.
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Riker

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2016, 02:22:19 pm »

" " Child chains will compete with each other for inclusion into a block "

[5:37]
If NXT can't be included in a block we are fuck. Because he don't want to make an exception for NXT

[5:37]
This NXT 2.0 will kill NXT "

Since NXT will become childchain like any other, this NXT 2.0 could kill NXT with more childchain. So have you any plans for that or your opinion is "let's the market decide if NXT have to survive or not to your NXT 2.0" ?

Regarding "Child chains will compete with each other for inclusion into a block", I believe this addresses the situation when blocks are completely full with transactions, in this case transactions are prioritized by fee regardless if they are NXT transactions or other child chain transactions.
Therefore such welcome situation won't kill NXT of course, the NXT transactions will simply have to wait for the next block.
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Riker

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2016, 02:25:24 pm »

- MILK (motherchain token)

MILK - fNXT 1-0

How would you promote the "MILK" keyword in Google ? Maybe MILC
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Jetboy

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2016, 02:28:52 pm »

I for one will read the OP many, many times and actually try to understand it properly.

I think the key message here is an ecology of connected chains and then we can all argue the details in the coming months?

How about MILCK, Riker? Like magick.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 02:31:06 pm by Jetboy »
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Seccour

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2016, 02:29:46 pm »

" " Child chains will compete with each other for inclusion into a block "

[5:37]
If NXT can't be included in a block we are fuck. Because he don't want to make an exception for NXT

[5:37]
This NXT 2.0 will kill NXT "

Since NXT will become childchain like any other, this NXT 2.0 could kill NXT with more childchain. So have you any plans for that or your opinion is "let's the market decide if NXT have to survive or not to your NXT 2.0" ?

Regarding "Child chains will compete with each other for inclusion into a block", I believe this addresses the situation when blocks are completely full with transactions, in this case transactions are prioritized by fee regardless if they are NXT transactions or other child chain transactions.
Therefore such welcome situation won't kill NXT of course, the NXT transactions will simply have to wait for the next block.

Only if their is place in the next block. Because it will be a competitive market, no way to be sure that NXT transactions will be on the next block. This plan will just create competitor to NXT. Competitor that might kill it.

And as say on Slack. This could kill NXT AE too. Because people are going to sell their assets just to get more NXT before the fork. Have you something in mind for that ?
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EvilDave

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2016, 02:32:58 pm »

@jetboy...that sums it up pretty well.

And, before we forget: one of JLP's strongest argumemts for prunable sidechains is scalablity.

The proposed architecture will, in theory, be able to scale way further than any other blockchain system.
Goodbye to eternal blockchain bloating, say hello to hundreds of baby blockchains.... 

Edit: +1 to Seccour....how will we handle the issue of Assets being liquidated to gain fNXT/MILK ?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 02:35:21 pm by EvilDave »
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lurker10

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2016, 02:38:41 pm »

Competition and free market is good.
If some assets are sold, they were not good in the first place.
If a childchain coin is better than NXT, then NXT is not fit to survive anyway.
Why do you think the childchain coin will be better? NXT is strong and has weathered many a storm, and been distributed to many users over 2+ years. A competing childchain coin will have to experience many ups and downs before it can become as strong. Why so afraid?

There is no doubt the design needs to be discussed in all details. But making such assumptions as 'NXT will die' is premature and ungrounded.
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yassin54

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2016, 02:42:53 pm »

I think I'll avoid this comment  :D
and wait and see, too hard for me to understand
Deleted my post sorry  :P

3rdStryker

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2016, 02:44:56 pm »

NXT WAS competitive until all of it's unique features will be stripped away by child chains. I wouldn't call the liquidation of assets due to an external fork as being free market.

Seccour

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2016, 02:53:28 pm »

Competition and free market is good.
If some assets are sold, they were not good in the first place.
If a childchain coin is better than NXT, then NXT is not fit to survive anyway.
Why do you think the childchain coin will be better? NXT is strong and has weathered many a storm, and been distributed to many users over 2+ years. A competing childchain coin will have to experience many ups and downs before it can become as strong. Why so afraid?

There is no doubt the design needs to be discussed in all details. But making such assumptions as 'NXT will die' is premature and ungrounded.

The place in a block is limited. A large amount of childchain > to the place in the block is enough to kill NXT if they have enough to pay the fees. Because company will not want to see their childchain dead, they will pay the fees. And it would be enough to kill NXT even if NXT was fit to survive.

Allow the creation of competitors that can kill NXT is just the craziest things i have ever saw in the cryptoworld.
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lurker10

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2016, 02:54:18 pm »

NXT WAS competitive until all of it's unique features will be stripped away by child chains. I wouldn't call the liquidation of assets due to an external fork as being free market.

All the unique features will stay on the NXT child chain, the forging feature will go on to the forging fNXT chain. Which features will be stripped?

Liquidation of assets is voluntary, there is no force that makes you liquidate them. Voluntary = free market.

I think this proposed change to NXT 2.0 is so radical that we can have a split of NXT 1.x and NXT 2.0 if some forgers choose to stay on the old NXT. And this is free market too and is good. The more life forms, the more advanced is evolution.
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lurker10

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2016, 03:00:25 pm »

The place in a block is limited. A large amount of childchain > to the place in the block is enough to kill NXT if they have enough to pay the fees. Because company will not want to see their childchain dead, they will pay the fees. And it would be enough to kill NXT even if NXT was fit to survive.

Allow the creation of competitors that can kill NXT is just the craziest things i have ever saw in the cryptoworld.

The company will need to generate profits to pay fees or it will run itself to bankruptcy.

If NXT is fit to survive, it will survive with all the fees it has to pay. If it doesn't, it doesn't. The best way to make a competitive life form is throw it out in the wild and make it adapt to all the storms. NXT will have a very good head start, personally I don't feel concerned for its future as a child chain.
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vytasz7

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2016, 03:01:35 pm »

NXT WAS competitive until all of it's unique features will be stripped away by child chains. I wouldn't call the liquidation of assets due to an external fork as being free market.

All the unique features will stay on the NXT child chain, the forging feature will go on to the forging fNXT chain. Which features will be stripped?

Liquidation of assets is voluntary, there is no force that makes you liquidate them. Voluntary = free market.

I think this proposed change to NXT 2.0 is so radical that we can have a split of NXT 1.x and NXT 2.0 if some forgers choose to stay on the old NXT. And this is free market too and is good. The more life forms, the more advanced is evolution.

of course its forced liquidation of assets ,because only nxt currency holders get fnxt .So if you are in assets you will lose 50 %( dont get fnxt)
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lurker10

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2016, 03:05:20 pm »

NXT WAS competitive until all of it's unique features will be stripped away by child chains. I wouldn't call the liquidation of assets due to an external fork as being free market.

All the unique features will stay on the NXT child chain, the forging feature will go on to the forging fNXT chain. Which features will be stripped?

Liquidation of assets is voluntary, there is no force that makes you liquidate them. Voluntary = free market.

I think this proposed change to NXT 2.0 is so radical that we can have a split of NXT 1.x and NXT 2.0 if some forgers choose to stay on the old NXT. And this is free market too and is good. The more life forms, the more advanced is evolution.

of course its forced liquidation of assets ,because only nxt currency holders get fnxt .So if you are in assets you will lose 50 %( dont get fnxt)

No. Forced liquidation is when you have to pay your margin call or face your trading account being shut down, it's a brokerage term.

There is no forced liquidation in the proposed design. Your account is not shut down if you don't sell assets.

If you're in assets now, you don't forge anyway, why are you concerned about having fNXT?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 03:08:10 pm by lurker10 »
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Cassius

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2016, 03:07:04 pm »

NXT WAS competitive until all of it's unique features will be stripped away by child chains. I wouldn't call the liquidation of assets due to an external fork as being free market.

All the unique features will stay on the NXT child chain, the forging feature will go on to the forging fNXT chain. Which features will be stripped?

Liquidation of assets is voluntary, there is no force that makes you liquidate them. Voluntary = free market.

I think this proposed change to NXT 2.0 is so radical that we can have a split of NXT 1.x and NXT 2.0 if some forgers choose to stay on the old NXT. And this is free market too and is good. The more life forms, the more advanced is evolution.

This may well come down to network effect. Right now, anyone can fork Nxt (FIMK, Horizon) and compete. But they haven't got the adoption or market cap of Nxt. This plan means the same can happen, but that economic activity is used to pay the original Nxt chain forgers. It effectively allows white-label licensing of the Nxt blockchain.

There may well be some hiccups, and I'm interested to see how the dump-the-assets-for-fNXT issue will be addressed, but in general this looks like a way to leverage Nxt rather than compete it out of existence. Actually, it's somewhat similar to BCNext's original intention of having NXT the currency replaced by MS coins (except that it might work better).
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3rdStryker

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2016, 03:10:33 pm »

What does NXT have going for it now? The child chains have all the exact same features NXT has...but with possibly more (backed by BTC or dividends etc).
All the child chains will move to BTC pairings, who would go out of their way to pair up with NXT if it isn't as liquid?

NXT simply cannot compete and it will be left to die a slow death once people realize it's worthless.
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