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Author Topic: Nxt 2.0 design  (Read 220735 times)

blackyblack1

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #960 on: March 29, 2016, 10:48:51 am »

If I may continue with your example above, let's assume not all concert tickets will be used, say 5% can't make it to the concert and they will remain in the customers accounts.
Does this mean that for the next concert, the organizer will have to create a new child chain in order to not mix the old, "expired" tickets with the new tickets for the new concert?
No, she can just create another asset. Making an asset is easier than creating a child chain.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
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abctc

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #961 on: March 29, 2016, 11:12:28 am »

No, she can just create another asset. Making an asset is easier than creating a child chain.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
- the answer is here:
The end user will only transact in the side chain token both for value transfer and fees.
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blackyblack1

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #962 on: March 29, 2016, 11:27:28 am »

No, she can just create another asset. Making an asset is easier than creating a child chain.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
- the answer is here:
The end user will only transact in the side chain token both for value transfer and fees.
So we are back to point 1:

Quote
Does this mean that for the next concert, the organizer will have to create a new child chain in order to not mix the old, "expired" tickets with the new tickets for the new concert?
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martismartis

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #963 on: March 29, 2016, 11:37:06 am »

No, she can just create another asset. Making an asset is easier than creating a child chain.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
- the answer is here:
The end user will only transact in the side chain token both for value transfer and fees.
So we are back to point 1:

Quote
Does this mean that for the next concert, the organizer will have to create a new child chain in order to not mix the old, "expired" tickets with the new tickets for the new concert?

There is a "delete asset" feature. Next concert, next asset.
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blackyblack1

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #964 on: March 29, 2016, 11:41:25 am »

No, she can just create another asset. Making an asset is easier than creating a child chain.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
- the answer is here:
The end user will only transact in the side chain token both for value transfer and fees.
So we are back to point 1:

Quote
Does this mean that for the next concert, the organizer will have to create a new child chain in order to not mix the old, "expired" tickets with the new tickets for the new concert?

There is a "delete asset" feature. Next concert, next asset.
Do you propose to delete child chain here?
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martismartis

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #965 on: March 29, 2016, 11:46:09 am »

No, she can just create another asset. Making an asset is easier than creating a child chain.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
- the answer is here:
The end user will only transact in the side chain token both for value transfer and fees.
So we are back to point 1:

Quote
Does this mean that for the next concert, the organizer will have to create a new child chain in order to not mix the old, "expired" tickets with the new tickets for the new concert?

There is a "delete asset" feature. Next concert, next asset.
Do you propose to delete child chain here?

Not childchain, just asset. And then create new asset on same child chain for next concert.
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blackyblack1

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #966 on: March 29, 2016, 11:47:03 am »

No, she can just create another asset. Making an asset is easier than creating a child chain.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
- the answer is here:
The end user will only transact in the side chain token both for value transfer and fees.
So we are back to point 1:

Quote
Does this mean that for the next concert, the organizer will have to create a new child chain in order to not mix the old, "expired" tickets with the new tickets for the new concert?

There is a "delete asset" feature. Next concert, next asset.
Do you propose to delete child chain here?

Not childchain, just asset. And then create new asset on same child chain for next concert.
But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
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abctc

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #967 on: March 29, 2016, 11:47:36 am »

Do you propose to delete child chain here?
- no. Childchain = ticket business.  Next asset = next concert.
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blackyblack1

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #968 on: March 29, 2016, 11:48:49 am »

Do you propose to delete child chain here?
- no. Childchain = ticket business.  Next asset = next concert.
How do users pay fees for transferring their tickets?
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abctc

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #969 on: March 29, 2016, 11:49:27 am »

But how to transfer this asset without paying a fee in a foreign currency?
- the answer is here:   :D :D :D
The end user will only transact in the side chain token both for value transfer and fees.
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martismartis

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #970 on: March 29, 2016, 11:53:01 am »

Do you propose to delete child chain here?
- no. Childchain = ticket business.  Next asset = next concert.
How do users pay fees for transferring their tickets?
Well, option for sidechain creator to choose that transactions inside childchain has 0 fees would be good :)
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NxtSwe

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #971 on: March 29, 2016, 11:53:26 am »

So if they are using an asset, they must transfer both the asset and make sure the recipient's account is funded with enough child chain tokens to cover the fees?
To me that sounds like we are back at square 1.

Maybe I am missing something.
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NxtSwe

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #972 on: March 29, 2016, 11:56:24 am »

Do you propose to delete child chain here?
- no. Childchain = ticket business.  Next asset = next concert.
How do users pay fees for transferring their tickets?
Well, option for sidechain creator to choose that transactions inside childchain has 0 fees would be good :)

That would solve the fee problem, but potentially create other problems, spam.
With 0 fees I could fill the unconfirmed tx pool at the nodes by passing an asset back and forth between two accounts.

Another, more potent way would be to allow the payment of fees in assets / MS currencies on child chains.
That would probably add to the complexity of the development, and I'm sure there's lots of details to think about before going that route.
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martismartis

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #973 on: March 29, 2016, 12:02:58 pm »

Do you propose to delete child chain here?
- no. Childchain = ticket business.  Next asset = next concert.
How do users pay fees for transferring their tickets?
Well, option for sidechain creator to choose that transactions inside childchain has 0 fees would be good :)

That would solve the fee problem, but potentially create other problems, spam.
With 0 fees I could fill the unconfirmed tx pool at the nodes by passing an asset back and forth between two accounts.

Another, more potent way would be to allow the payment of fees in assets / MS currencies on child chains.
That would probably add to the complexity of the development, and I'm sure there's lots of details to think about before going that route.

Let's suppose concert ticket buyers don't know what is NXT and they are using only smartphone app for doing it :)
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websioux

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #974 on: March 29, 2016, 12:04:24 pm »

I think concert organizers would prefer to set things up such that an optimal black market is not inherently enabled... it needs a setting for no resell of asset.
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abctc

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #975 on: March 29, 2016, 12:10:11 pm »

So if they are using an asset, they must transfer both the asset and make sure the recipient's account is funded with enough child chain tokens to cover the fees?
To me that sounds like we are back at square 1.
- in Riker's example ("perhaps 1000's of accounts getting the tokens and using them as entrance ticket") there is no need for users to transfer asset. They only need to show (QR-code of receiving transaction?) the ownership of asset.

Only if user whant to profiteer at Asset Exchange (to re-sell ticket-asset), she need some childtokens for fee. She can buy that childtoken(s) from ticket business owner (for fiat, as she buys assets-tickets).
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blackyblack1

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #976 on: March 29, 2016, 12:19:37 pm »

So if they are using an asset, they must transfer both the asset and make sure the recipient's account is funded with enough child chain tokens to cover the fees?
To me that sounds like we are back at square 1.
- in Riker's example ("perhaps 1000's of accounts getting the tokens and using them as entrance ticket") there is no need for users to transfer asset. They only need to show (QR-code of receiving transaction?) the ownership of asset.
In this case they can behave exactly the same way on NXT 1.0.
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allwelder

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #977 on: March 29, 2016, 01:08:44 pm »

I don't get why there is such demand of fNXT? What happened that everybody wants fNXT and forge with them? Forge now if you want! Buy more increase your effective balance and forge. fNXT will be for forging, not for buying anything. What do I miss?
Maybe it's limited supply,and sidechain tokens can be created any time/any body. :)
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Brangdon

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #978 on: March 29, 2016, 08:02:19 pm »

So if they are using an asset, they must transfer both the asset and make sure the recipient's account is funded with enough child chain tokens to cover the fees?
To me that sounds like we are back at square 1.

Maybe I am missing something.
As I understand it, the owner of the child chain can subsidise it by producing the ChildChainBlocks themselves, paying fNXT to do so, and charging users little or nothing in child-chain tokens. They buy the fNXT they need with the fiat they received for the concert tickets. The child chain tokens have little to no value; it's the assets (= concert tickets) that have value. Either the child chain allows zero fees, with the owner guarding against spam by other means, or the owner can include in each ChildChainBlock transactions that return the fees to the customers.

I think for this kind of application we want the child chain to be centralised and managed by the owner. Perhaps there would be a rule that only accounts authorised by the owner could produce the ChildChainBlocks.
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MrCluster87

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Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« Reply #979 on: March 31, 2016, 10:19:15 am »

Hey, since I haven't read this anywhere I would propose it now:

what do we need?

1) Developers
2) Users

right? At the end of the day IPO funds will eventually finish and we may end up with the same problems with double the tokens...

So let's do the opposite: select 5 tech savy crypto from http://coinmarketcap.com/ and let's merge with them.

Burn a little bit of coin from both sides to prove that we are serious about the deal and suddenly we'll end up with both more dedicated developers and users.

But guess what, the value of the new network will be more than the sum of the previews stand alone parts because of the "Network Effect".
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