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[MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund: PARTIALLY APPROVED singapore
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Author Topic: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund: PARTIALLY APPROVED  (Read 11309 times)

pf

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1. Nxt account and userID/contact info for submitter
   pf @ nxtforum.org - contact me outside of this thread and I can provide you with my wallet ID and my work email address. punkrock and I have conversed via my work email previously.  The hashrate.org pool wallet is 6523077528166477715 (if you want to take a look at it and see just how successful the pool has been so far)

2. Submission date - April 13, 2014

3. A short description of the project with your goals very clearly specified(three sentences max.)
Promotional fund to be used for the promotion and advancement of  the first NXT mining pool, hashrate.org
The objectives of the promotional fund will be simple:
1) to increase the number of miners on hashrate.org (increasing the amount of BTC being injected into the NXT ecosystem every day.)
2) Using the pool's BTC that gets invested into NXT every day to try and help mitigate the large walls that occasionally appear
3) Harness Scrypt/SHA miners power to directly increase the value of NXT.  The incentives will help ensure that this pool is the most profitable pool of all of them, which will mean the miners will flock to the pool (driving up the price of NXT even further - already the pool is buying .75-1 BTC of NXT per day, I would like to see this number be 10-15 BTC/day.


3b. Long description as needed
The promotional fund will be seperated into two amounts.
One will be used for fundraising donations and to expense things like a news release blitz by a professional Financial Services PR company.  This sum will also be used to reward miners for doing things like creating mining blogs, etc.  I would hire and use this service for the media blitz, which would get NXT some much needed global publicity in the financial sector. http://service.prweb.com/pricing/package/financial/


The second amount will be used to provide mining incentives to the pool miners, to encourage people to mine for NXT (and thus harness their mining power to help advance NXT as opposed to some other altcoin).  The incentives will be no more than 10% to any miner at any given interval, which guarantees that for every 1 NXT that a miner recieves as bonus he will have had to have mined enough to have injected 10 NXT worth of money into the NXT ecosystem.
I would like to break down the incentives as follows:

week 1:
Daily bonus to all miners: 4% minimum
If miner mines 49-149 NXT, bonus is 6%
If miner mines 250-349 NXT, bonus is 8%
If miner mines 350+ NXT, bonus is 10%.

week 2:
Daily bonus to all miners: 5%
Daily 10% bonus to random 1/10th of the pools active miners.  They will be selected at random by each day randomly picking a number from 0-9. Each worker will have their wallet ID checked and if the last digit of their wallet ID matches the picked number, they will get the 10% bonus for that day.


week 3 - incentive amount runs out
Daily bonus to all miners: 4%
Daily 10% bonus to random 1/10th of the pools active miners.  They will be selected at random by each day randomly picking a number from 0-9. Each worker will have their wallet ID checked and if the last digit of their wallet ID matches the picked number, they will get the 10% bonus for that day.

The pool currently pays out between 10-15K NXT per day in total, increasing most days.
          *** EDIT: the pool paid out over 20K yesterday (4/13)


4. Specify the target audience
All Scrypt/SHA miners currently mining altcoins for profit.  The idea of this pool is to collect as much hashpower as possible to use solely for the advancement of NXT.

5. Budget
As much as possible for the incentives (as the bigger the incentives are, or the longer they go on, the more the price of NXT will go to the moon). I would like to say 300,00 for the incentives, so we can include that in our media blitz.
For the advertising side of the project, I would say at least 100,000 NXT. The PR service (http://service.prweb.com/pricing/package/financial/) has a base price of $499 and I would like to use them to draft and edit the news releases as well (which will likely take the cost closer to $1,000 - the markets that they will get us exposure in however make this a steal of a deal). That should still leave a good sum of NXT for the bounties for things like miners having mining blogs, etc.  This leftover sum will also be used to engage graphics designers etc in making a wave of images/banners to be used to blitz the various social medias.  I would also like to start a small google adwords campaign with a couple hundred dollars.

I would like to get 15,000 additional NXT so that I can continue to run the site at 0% fee throughout this entire period - this will cover the costs of the hosting environment that the VPS is in.
So 415,000 NXT. A smaller amount would work, but I want to be able to include in the news blitz that a huge sum has been earmarked for bonuses.

6. Specify deadlines
This will be happening one way or another, as soon as I find people willing to invest in it.  I recently recieved half of the bounty for setting up the first NXT mining pool, but I would like to hold onto that NXT as I truly believe that this is something that will send the price per NXT through the roof. If there are any original investors who are interested in funding this idea, please pm me.

7. Metrics need to be specified
The price of NXT will be a metric for the success of this project. I believe that we can at least quadruple the price of NXT when you look at the success of the recent BC campaign like this. 
The amount of NXT that the pool buys and distributes will be another metric of success.  Giving away 300,000 in bonuses to the miners means that the pool has, at a minimum, purchased over 3,000,000 NXT from the market with the miner profits (after week 1, the bonus payouts drop to 5% and 1/10 get 10% - that would make a 300,000 bonus need the pool to be. moving nearly 6,000,000 NXT.)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 09:03:21 am by Damelon »
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pf

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2014, 09:20:01 pm »

I am going to ask that this request be considered for being fast tracked through whatever kind of process is required to get to a vote.

It is getting extremely hard to mine for altcoins profitably when there is a pool the size of the blackcoin one that keeps moving in on the most profitable coins and just destroys them difficulty-wise. If this doesn't get reigned in soon, it will be the end of the altcoin scene as we know it.  I won't run a pool that is half as profitable as another one, which means that we need to get more miners and get them quickly in order to be able to still get blocks.

I think I nearly have the math that their coin-switcher is using figured out, which has helped us avoid the coins that they're hitting as they hit them, but they're leaving aftershocks on just about every blockchain they touch.

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TwinWinNerD

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 09:22:00 pm »

I am going to ask that this request be considered for being fast tracked through whatever kind of process is required to get to a vote.

It is getting extremely hard to mine for altcoins profitably when there is a pool the size of the blackcoin one that keeps moving in on the most profitable coins and just destroys them difficulty-wise. If this doesn't get reigned in soon, it will be the end of the altcoin scene as we know it.  I won't run a pool that is half as profitable as another one, which means that we need to get more miners and get them quickly in order to be able to still get blocks.

I think I nearly have the math that their coin-switcher is using figured out, which has helped us avoid the coins that they're hitting as they hit them, but they're leaving aftershocks on just about every blockchain they touch.

Do they only mine coins that adjust their difficulty fast? Because if they have coins like BTC, then it doesn't really matter, does it?

pf

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 09:34:10 pm »

No multipool will likely ever get big enough to mine BTC directly (although the hashrate miners are merge mining BTC with the SHA miners - that's the most profitable)

Nearly all of the scrypt coins have moved towards KGW or DGW, which adjusts difficulty every block upwards exponentially (to try and stop the multipools from hitting them)
Blackcoin pool is currently jumping coins about every 15th round
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Tosch110

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 09:39:05 pm »

I am going to ask that this request be considered for being fast tracked through whatever kind of process is required to get to a vote.

It is getting extremely hard to mine for altcoins profitably when there is a pool the size of the blackcoin one that keeps moving in on the most profitable coins and just destroys them difficulty-wise. If this doesn't get reigned in soon, it will be the end of the altcoin scene as we know it.

That seems like you have a good target group for your mining pool. Angry altcoin user, nxt is not vulnerable to Blackcoin

TwinWinNerD

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 09:39:58 pm »

No multipool will likely ever get big enough to mine BTC directly (although the hashrate miners are merge mining BTC with the SHA miners - that's the most profitable)

Nearly all of the scrypt coins have moved towards KGW or DGW, which adjusts difficulty every block upwards exponentially (to try and stop the multipools from hitting them)
Blackcoin pool is currently jumping coins about every 15th round

Ok thank you. But can't you just make a cronjob that checks which pool blackcoinpool is connected to and just also mine the exact coins. Your profitability should nearly be the same with slight slippage?

pf

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2014, 09:43:56 pm »

No multipool will likely ever get big enough to mine BTC directly (although the hashrate miners are merge mining BTC with the SHA miners - that's the most profitable)

Nearly all of the scrypt coins have moved towards KGW or DGW, which adjusts difficulty every block upwards exponentially (to try and stop the multipools from hitting them)
Blackcoin pool is currently jumping coins about every 15th round

Ok thank you. But can't you just make a cronjob that checks which pool blackcoinpool is connected to and just also mine the exact coins. Your profitability should nearly be the same with slight slippage?
If I was a pool the size of the Blackcoin one, maybe.
They're moving into coins and driving up the difficulty 40-50x the original difficulty.  They still get all the blocks, because they've got nearly 10 GH.
mining for 10-15 blocks and then switching to the next coin and doing it over again.
As soon as they leave that coin, they leave it with a difficulty 50x higher than it usually has and only 1 or 2% of the hashpower that it had when the difficulty adjusted that much higher

They also don't state what coin they are mining at any given time (but look at coinwarz.com and you can see the little red kiss of death triangle on nearly all the most profitable coins at some point today)
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TwinWinNerD

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2014, 09:46:53 pm »

No multipool will likely ever get big enough to mine BTC directly (although the hashrate miners are merge mining BTC with the SHA miners - that's the most profitable)

Nearly all of the scrypt coins have moved towards KGW or DGW, which adjusts difficulty every block upwards exponentially (to try and stop the multipools from hitting them)
Blackcoin pool is currently jumping coins about every 15th round

Ok thank you. But can't you just make a cronjob that checks which pool blackcoinpool is connected to and just also mine the exact coins. Your profitability should nearly be the same with slight slippage?
If I was a pool the size of the Blackcoin one, maybe.
They're moving into coins and driving up the difficulty 40-50x the original difficulty.  They still get all the blocks, because they've got nearly 10 GH.
mining for 10-15 blocks and then switching to the next coin and doing it over again.
As soon as they leave that coin, they leave it with a difficulty 50x higher than it usually has and only 1 or 2% of the hashpower that it had when the difficulty adjusted that much higher

They also don't state what coin they are mining at any given time (but look at coinwarz.com and you can see the little red kiss of death triangle on nearly all the most profitable coins at some point today)

Wow, I didn't realise that is such a big problem.

When I was looking into BTC mining years ago, there was this pool hopping. But now there is coin hopping. This is just sad...

pf

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2014, 09:52:55 pm »

It's only going to get more and more difficult to be able to ever compete with the blackcoin pool on par.

If I had got the whole multipool bounty I would have already used most of it to subsidize the miners and NXT would have gone up the way BC has recently.  Instead I'm stuck sitting here stressing out wondering how to make my pool succeed even though it's lost 3/4 of it's hashpower today (no doubt to miners who have switched to the BC pool), and the NXT price is at a record low since my pool opened.

I will have the profitability stats available tonight (i've had to wait to capture enough historical hashrate data to be able to calculcate them properly)
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Damelon

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2014, 10:04:11 pm »

Maybe a stupid question, but if they are SO big, won't this just be a dump of Nxt into an unprofitable venture?

The idea as far as I see it is that we draw miners to us so we can compete against them, right?

I ask this because you are asking for a substantial part of the total funds: about 15% of our total.

If that is spent on just paying miners who would then move on this does not seem worthwhile.

Could you explain, other than adding value (how do we measure this, by the way), how we gain more attention that will not be lost to "the next mining pool"?

Please take these questions as meant: honest inquiry in things I do not understand as of now.
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pf

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 10:10:27 pm »

Maybe a stupid question, but if they are SO big, won't this just be a dump of Nxt into an unprofitable venture?

The idea as far as I see it is that we draw miners to us so we can compete against them, right?

I ask this because you are asking for a substantial part of the total funds: about 15% of our total.

If that is spent on just paying miners who would then move on this does not seem worthwhile.

Could you explain, other than adding value (how do we measure this, by the way), how we gain more attention that will not be lost to "the next mining pool"?

Please take these questions as meant: honest inquiry in things I do not understand as of now.
It's sorta like lifting yourself up by ones bootstraps.  All of the proceeds from the pool's mining go directly back into the NXT ecosystem.  Once you have enough miners mining (and the coin starts to go up in value) then it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Even if they mine and move on, at 10% bonus that means that the minimum number of NXT that the miners would have to mine would be 3,000,000 worth of NXT in order to get paid out 300,000 in bonus.  (and keep in mind that the bonuses don't pay 10% to every miner - it would likely take 10,000,000 NXT mined in order to fully deplete a 300,000 incentive.
Every single miner contributes their hashpower directly to help the NXT ecosystem - just jump coin to coin the same way the BC pool is doing without giving any regard for the damage that is being done to the other altcoins in the process.  Literally sucking whatever value they have completely dry and using it to pump up the value of our closed value POS coin.   I've seen a few poeple wonder just who is buying up all the coins that is making the BC price go up so high and the anwer is pretty simple: the pool itself. 

Also the rate at which BC has gone up cannot continue forever - there will be a huge market for miners who feel that they 'missed the BC' bus who would jump on the NXT pool (and stay on it) while the NXT price goes to the moon as well.  There will be some who might mine for the bonus days and then jump ship back to BC - but the BC pool will never be able to mine for NXT or exploit our coin the same way it has other coins.  There have been quite a few millionaires made from the BC pool, but there's also tons of people who would love the chance to get onto the train before it's already left the station.

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jl777

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 10:11:14 pm »

I do not think it makes sense to spend any more than has already been spent subsidizing mining. Already a large amount was paid out and the last thing we should be doing with our funds is competing with other mining pools

This was supposed to be a method for people to use whatever useless mining equipment they had. Not for it to become a super large operation.

@pf, dont worry about the pump and dumper coins, they measure their lifespan in months and weeks, while NXT is in years.
Hopefully the initial bounty will tide you over through the rough times

James
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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 10:14:29 pm »

I do not think it makes sense to spend any more than has already been spent subsidizing mining. Already a large amount was paid out and the last thing we should be doing with our funds is competing with other mining pools

This was supposed to be a method for people to use whatever useless mining equipment they had. Not for it to become a super large operation.

@pf, dont worry about the pump and dumper coins, they measure their lifespan in months and weeks, while NXT is in years.
Hopefully the initial bounty will tide you over through the rough times

James
Even if the NXT community decides that they don't want to subsidize miners with any kind of bonus, I would request that they provide enough NXT to cover the cost of a media blitz via the PR company that I mentioned above.
Had I recieved the full bounty for starting the first multipool (which I did, I had posted about my pool nearly a full day before the other pool) I would have already started this.  I don't want to use 100,000 of the bounty that i recieved (I recieved 120K NXT in total, and have run the pool on 0% fee the entire time so far) because that would leave me with such a small stake that there would be very little point in trying to make the price go up.
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joefox

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2014, 10:51:57 pm »

I would like to move that the MC vote on this proposal in 24-48 hours. There is some complexity here because the committee itself is spread among 16 hours worth of time zones, and we need to make sure people have time to read and think... but we'll see what we can do.

The previous proposal has been in discussion for several days, and this format adds a great deal of clarity.
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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 10:52:55 pm »

I do not think it makes sense to spend any more than has already been spent subsidizing mining. Already a large amount was paid out and the last thing we should be doing with our funds is competing with other mining pools

This was supposed to be a method for people to use whatever useless mining equipment they had. Not for it to become a super large operation.

@pf, dont worry about the pump and dumper coins, they measure their lifespan in months and weeks, while NXT is in years.
Hopefully the initial bounty will tide you over through the rough times

James
Even if the NXT community decides that they don't want to subsidize miners with any kind of bonus, I would request that they provide enough NXT to cover the cost of a media blitz via the PR company that I mentioned above.
Had I recieved the full bounty for starting the first multipool (which I did, I had posted about my pool nearly a full day before the other pool) I would have already started this.  I don't want to use 100,000 of the bounty that i recieved (I recieved 120K NXT in total, and have run the pool on 0% fee the entire time so far) because that would leave me with such a small stake that there would be very little point in trying to make the price go up.
You've clearly put in a lot of work and I think it is a cool idea. Whether it will snowball or not, certainly nobody knows at this point. To that end, I do agree to the PR portion. The whole subsidy thing is not guaranteed to do anything except cost a lot of NXT. These miners have only one loyalty and that is to the revenue per GH, so any run rate achieved via subsidy is unsustainable.

I am interested in long term sustainable cash flows. I will match NXT for NXT that the committee authorizes, up to a limit of 50,000 NXT. That would be a total of 100000 extra NXT, but only for marketing, not for subsidy/bonus

James

Edit: By "I", I mean NXTcommunityfund
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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2014, 11:04:46 pm »

I dont think promote Nxt through a mining manner is a better idea.

First,Nxt is POS,no need for mining,we always said.
When much focus on mining may mislead some newbie and effect the POS brand of Nxt.

Another,jL777's nodecoin will come true for more nodes maintain the security of Nxt network.

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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2014, 11:06:29 pm »

If the goal is to buy 10.000.000 Nxt coins from the exchange, it means that one of the dumping original stakeholders would be able to get from 15 mega to 5 mega few weeks sooner.

Q: Are you doing any research about other multipools? I heard about many many new multipools for many many cryptos
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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2014, 11:25:54 pm »

Yes, I have studied the other multipools extensively.  I nearly have the Blackpool's algorhythm figured out for which coin they will switch to next (I think).

I have created a new NXT wallet for the pool's promotional use and donated 20,000 of my own NXT to it. The promo wallet is 15628004422239219406.

I intend to post that address on the site for my pool and request that miners consider donating to it, as it will be used to promote the pool. I still believe that unless we offer to subsidize the miners the same way that the Blackcoin pool is subsidizing their miners, that we won't be able to compete with their pool.  (keep in mind that they've now overtaken us in terms of market cap and looks like they could pass even Doge and PPC still today).

and the end goal of this project is to continually inject as much BTC as possible into the coin.  This is just harnessing the power of as many miners as possible to make that happen.  The pool has already been buying 0.5 - 1.0 BTC worth of NXT every day for the miners, like I said in my initial post - I'd like to see this number be 10-15 BTC per day, or even 100 BTC per day into NXT.  That kind of injection on a regular basis will help stabilize the price and move it in an upwards direction.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 11:32:30 pm by pf »
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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2014, 11:35:04 pm »

Does look like multi-pools are the flavour of the month in crypto-land.

I'm ambivalent about the pool idea, tbh. On the one hand it goes against the low-energy use, no need for mining POS concept, but it could be a good way to raise awareness of NXT, and gives miners something to do with their GPU's.

If I had a vote on this, I would be tempted to approve some funds for marketing, but to ask, as a condition of that funding, that pool miners be encouraged (not forced, but gently persuaded) to run NXT nodes, helping to secure the NXTwork directly and only using a few extra CPU cycles on their miniing rigs. 
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Re: [MC]Hashrate.org NXT Mining Pool Promotional Fund
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2014, 11:39:17 pm »

Does look like multi-pools are the flavour of the month in crypto-land.

I'm ambivalent about the pool idea, tbh. On the one hand it goes against the low-energy use, no need for mining POS concept, but it could be a good way to raise awareness of NXT, and gives miners something to do with their GPU's.

If I had a vote on this, I would be tempted to approve some funds for marketing, but to ask, as a condition of that funding, that pool miners be encouraged (not forced, but gently persuaded) to run NXT nodes, helping to secure the NXTwork directly and only using a few extra CPU cycles on their miniing rigs.

I also had a nagging idea that this somehow should tie into both MC and infrastructure as it affects both (if done well).
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