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[ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 9wks & 100% ROI, 2.5+ mil dividends, ~27.5+GH
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Author Topic: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 9wks & 100% ROI, 2.5+ mil dividends, ~27.5+GH  (Read 212887 times)

Pilot

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #280 on: November 10, 2014, 01:46:08 am »

To elaborate -

Currently there are approx. 2,600,000 shares issued, and approx 10 GH/s of hashpower.

Which means currently each share is 0.00385 MH/s or 3.85 kh/s of mining power.  After the multiplication of 35% and asset dividend payment of 15%, we will now have-

2,990,000 shares, and 13.5 GH/s of hashpower.

This will make each share worth 0.00452 MH/s or 4.52 kh/s after the multiplication, an increase of 17.3%. 

If shares continue to be sold at 1 NXT each, early shareholders will be getting a bad deal since new investors are paying less per KH/s, and as many new shares are sold, their shares will be worth less in terms of hashpower.  Either increasing the share price or issuing more dividends is the only correct way to handle this situation.
I hadn't thought about this, but this is quite true.
What do people think about increasing the price per share to 1.2 NXT after the 15% additional shares are sent out?

I agree with this. The price must go up with the value of the increases. This also makes it important for dividends to be paid as assets if re-investment is requested. (I think.) Gotta do the math on that.
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pf

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #281 on: November 10, 2014, 01:52:22 am »

Hi pf,

I've been thinking, and it seems like the way your are handling the 1.35 qASIC share multiplication is not fair to your current shareholders.  You are keeping the entire 35% of the multiplied qASIC shares in the mining account, which is great, but then you are issuing a dividend of HRLTCGEAR shares to investors at a rate of 15% of their current holdings, and yet keeping the price of HRLTCGEAR at 1 NXT per share.  This means that people who buy shares after the multiplication will be paying ~250 NXT for 1.2 MH/s, while people who invested before the multiplication paid ~250 NXT for 1 MH/s.

So, I propose you do one of the following options instead -

1. Issue current shareholders a dividend of HRLTCGEAR shares at a rate of 35% of their current holdings, and keep price at 1 NXT
2. Issue the dividend at 15% like you have planned, but raise the price of new shares to 1.2 NXT, since the amount in the mining account will have increased by 20% relative to the number of shares issued.

These would both be fair ways to handle things.
Hey Cryptographer, thanks for this post  - I agree with just about everything that you posted and will go with option #2 most likely.
Still the issue with increasing the base price, is that the 35% multiplication increase is intended to mitigate difficulty increases, not increase profitability.  (granted, the way LTCgear lets you qualify for multiplication with last minute purchases might not make it seem like this)
By raising the base price to 1.2 NXT, it means that the 'weekly ROI' will likely continue to slowly fall over time.  (whereas keeping it at 1 NXT would likely take it back up and over the 15% ROI weekly next week).
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ifeng

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #282 on: November 10, 2014, 02:01:45 am »

hi pf
It looks like the multiplication still hasn't happened? now!
why?
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jl777

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #283 on: November 10, 2014, 02:44:57 am »

To elaborate -

Currently there are approx. 2,600,000 shares issued, and approx 10 GH/s of hashpower.

Which means currently each share is 0.00385 MH/s or 3.85 kh/s of mining power.  After the multiplication of 35% and asset dividend payment of 15%, we will now have-

2,990,000 shares, and 13.5 GH/s of hashpower.

This will make each share worth 0.00452 MH/s or 4.52 kh/s after the multiplication, an increase of 17.3%. 

If shares continue to be sold at 1 NXT each, early shareholders will be getting a bad deal since new investors are paying less per KH/s, and as many new shares are sold, their shares will be worth less in terms of hashpower.  Either increasing the share price or issuing more dividends is the only correct way to handle this situation.
I disagree

The correct thing to do is nothing. Each asset represents a proportional share of the total hashrate purchased. This 35% bonus is part of this purchased hashrate, so all existing assetholders get 35% more hashrate. There is nothing unfair about this.

Also, any new purchasers are purchasing a proportionate share, and nothing stops existing assetholders from buying more.

There is no need to complicate things. The value of each asset just went up and this also provides insurance against any non-linear increase in LTC difficulty (we all know it will happen) from reducing the returns

James
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jl777

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #284 on: November 10, 2014, 02:45:46 am »

hi pf
It looks like the multiplication still hasn't happened? now!
why?
multiplication has happened. The total hashpower of HRLTCgear has been increased. But keep in mind so has the hashrate of all other LTCgear customers

James
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jl777

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #285 on: November 10, 2014, 02:47:18 am »

To elaborate -

Currently there are approx. 2,600,000 shares issued, and approx 10 GH/s of hashpower.

Which means currently each share is 0.00385 MH/s or 3.85 kh/s of mining power.  After the multiplication of 35% and asset dividend payment of 15%, we will now have-

2,990,000 shares, and 13.5 GH/s of hashpower.

This will make each share worth 0.00452 MH/s or 4.52 kh/s after the multiplication, an increase of 17.3%. 

If shares continue to be sold at 1 NXT each, early shareholders will be getting a bad deal since new investors are paying less per KH/s, and as many new shares are sold, their shares will be worth less in terms of hashpower.  Either increasing the share price or issuing more dividends is the only correct way to handle this situation.
I hadn't thought about this, but this is quite true.
What do people think about increasing the price per share to 1.2 NXT after the 15% additional shares are sent out?

I agree with this. The price must go up with the value of the increases. This also makes it important for dividends to be paid as assets if re-investment is requested. (I think.) Gotta do the math on that.
The price should stay constant at 1 NXT
Equilibrium will be reached to compensate for any increased value
I would not overestimate the effect this 35% boost has as all LTCgear customers will be getting it
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jl777

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #286 on: November 10, 2014, 02:50:11 am »

Hi Cryptographer,
The problem with saying 1 share is equal to X amount of hashing power is that X amount of hashing power will tend to produce less income as time goes by.

The value of 1 share is the income it produces.

If the share price is always 1 NXT then the hashing power has to increase to maintain the income.

Pf's approach increases hashing power over time (whether it is enough or not is a different question). In this way pf is trying to maintain the income.

So IMHO the question is: if the share is always priced at 1NXT what should the income be on average and how is it fairly maintained?
It is fairly maintained by allocating all hashpower obtained to the asset. The risk of fluctuating hashrate is therefore shared among everybody and this is one of the purposes of this asset.

James
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m30188

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #287 on: November 10, 2014, 04:08:45 am »

hi pf
It looks like the multiplication still hasn't happened? now!
why?
multiplication has happened. The total hashpower of HRLTCgear has been increased. But keep in mind so has the hashrate of all other LTCgear customers

James
He's talking about the asset distribution.
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m30188

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #288 on: November 10, 2014, 04:25:07 am »

hi pf
It looks like the multiplication still hasn't happened? now!
why?
multiplication has happened. The total hashpower of HRLTCgear has been increased. But keep in mind so has the hashrate of all other LTCgear customers

James
He's talking about the asset distribution.
There is still going to be an asset distribution, right?
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m30188

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #289 on: November 10, 2014, 04:36:23 am »

To whomever just sold me nearly 20k HRLTCGEAR at below 1 NXT, thanks!
Benefiting from scaring away your own investors. Great.
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xibeijan

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #290 on: November 10, 2014, 07:16:51 am »

To elaborate -

Currently there are approx. 2,600,000 shares issued, and approx 10 GH/s of hashpower.

Which means currently each share is 0.00385 MH/s or 3.85 kh/s of mining power.  After the multiplication of 35% and asset dividend payment of 15%, we will now have-

2,990,000 shares, and 13.5 GH/s of hashpower.

This will make each share worth 0.00452 MH/s or 4.52 kh/s after the multiplication, an increase of 17.3%. 

If shares continue to be sold at 1 NXT each, early shareholders will be getting a bad deal since new investors are paying less per KH/s, and as many new shares are sold, their shares will be worth less in terms of hashpower.  Either increasing the share price or issuing more dividends is the only correct way to handle this situation.
I hadn't thought about this, but this is quite true.
What do people think about increasing the price per share to 1.2 NXT after the 15% additional shares are sent out?

what about whatnot comment above?  Asset holders wouldn't want this to come at the cost of profitability
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xibeijan

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #291 on: November 10, 2014, 07:21:18 am »

Thanks for answering my question. I agree that a simple post saying, hey, will be back soon, would be nice. :)

I would ideally like to see a company this size incorporate and hire a PR.

The more regulation and lawyers involved the more you will find such crypto-based businesses seem to disappear.  Keep it simple.  Let it be a one man show with pf, lean and mean, more profit for all.

We seriously do not want to start emulating the status quo, which crypto is supposed to revolutionise.  This is a new paradigm. you need to check your conventional bag-o-solutions at the door.

No, you're wrong on this one. The rules of business have nothing to do with big government and fiat excess. If you don't incorporate a company and play by the rules when you get bigger, that in and of itself will cause you to disappear.

The point is to operate anonymously and only in crypto.  I don't see any USD flowing around.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 07:23:45 am by xibeijan »
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printshop

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #292 on: November 10, 2014, 08:00:18 am »

Thanks for answering my question. I agree that a simple post saying, hey, will be back soon, would be nice. :)

I would ideally like to see a company this size incorporate and hire a PR.

The more regulation and lawyers involved the more you will find such crypto-based businesses seem to disappear.  Keep it simple.  Let it be a one man show with pf, lean and mean, more profit for all.

We seriously do not want to start emulating the status quo, which crypto is supposed to revolutionise.  This is a new paradigm. you need to check your conventional bag-o-solutions at the door.

No, you're wrong on this one. The rules of business have nothing to do with big government and fiat excess. If you don't incorporate a company and play by the rules when you get bigger, that in and of itself will cause you to disappear.

The point is to operate anonymously and only in crypto.  I don't see any USD flowing around.

I didn't say anything about USD or USA tho, so I'm guessing you have misread me :) This makes for an interesting discussion but I think this thread is not the place to have it.

lopalcar

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #293 on: November 10, 2014, 08:25:32 am »

jl777, I agree half with you about asset purpouse (although I'm sure this idea isn't shared by all investors), but this option about don't do anything isn't good for initial investors, although each share represents more hasrate, this will be diluted between new investors, I mean, new investors are getting cheaper hashrate than if they buy directly to ltcgear (what would be more "fair" for initial investors withouth need to increass the shares or increass the price, would be take some kind of snapshot of assets before the multiplication and let them freezed, spliting that hashrate always between that shares, I mean, the 13ghash after multiplication will be always for that X shares, although this will be very difficult if some them sell their assets "would need colored assets haha") OR make a new asset each multiplication...
So, in my opinion, the best option is to increass the shares 35% to initial investors and newcomers pay at current price.

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jl777

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #294 on: November 10, 2014, 08:37:35 am »

jl777, I agree half with you about asset purpouse (although I'm sure this idea isn't shared by all investors), but this option about don't do anything isn't good for initial investors, although each share represents more hasrate, this will be diluted between new investors, I mean, new investors are getting cheaper hashrate than if they buy directly to ltcgear (what would be more "fair" for initial investors withouth need to increass the shares or increass the price, would be take some kind of snapshot of assets before the multiplication and let them freezed, spliting that hashrate always between that shares, I mean, the 13ghash after multiplication will be always for that X shares, although this will be very difficult if some them sell their assets "would need colored assets haha") OR make a new asset each multiplication...
So, in my opinion, the best option is to increass the shares 35% to initial investors and newcomers pay at current price.
It is confusing to me how people think that if the asset gains 35% hashrate that somehow they are not benefiting. I think you are not counting the fact that new purchasers will be increasing the overall hashrate.

For example, existing assetholders could sell all their assets and then repurchase. If the new purchasers are getting some advantage, then doing this would be of benefit, but clearly there is no change of anything if you do this.

James
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weekendwarrior

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #295 on: November 10, 2014, 01:21:41 pm »

its hilarious to watch a group of people debate a ponzi scheme like its real  ;D
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m30188

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #296 on: November 10, 2014, 01:41:38 pm »

Are we still getting extra shares or not?
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xibeijan

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #297 on: November 10, 2014, 02:38:17 pm »

its hilarious to watch a group of people debate a ponzi scheme like its real  ;D

Nice try Newbie

Unlike you, pf has a proven reputation.  He has also made his asset holders a lot of money.  Sorry you are missing out, but you won't get any cheap HRLTCGEAR by spreading FUD.
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garp

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #298 on: November 10, 2014, 02:59:12 pm »

To whomever just sold me nearly 20k HRLTCGEAR at below 1 NXT, thanks!
pf, why don't you buy back the others that are also offrered below 1 Nxt? Perhaps 0,99 is not low enough.
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cexylikepie

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Re: [ANN] HRLTCGEAR - fixed price, 54.5% return so far, >894k dividends, 9+ GH
« Reply #299 on: November 10, 2014, 03:08:41 pm »

To elaborate -

Currently there are approx. 2,600,000 shares issued, and approx 10 GH/s of hashpower.

Which means currently each share is 0.00385 MH/s or 3.85 kh/s of mining power.  After the multiplication of 35% and asset dividend payment of 15%, we will now have-

2,990,000 shares, and 13.5 GH/s of hashpower.

This will make each share worth 0.00452 MH/s or 4.52 kh/s after the multiplication, an increase of 17.3%. 

If shares continue to be sold at 1 NXT each, early shareholders will be getting a bad deal since new investors are paying less per KH/s, and as many new shares are sold, their shares will be worth less in terms of hashpower.  Either increasing the share price or issuing more dividends is the only correct way to handle this situation.
I hadn't thought about this, but this is quite true.
What do people think about increasing the price per share to 1.2 NXT after the 15% additional shares are sent out?

Yeah, nothing wrong with this.
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