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ACH Next Dividend - Jan. 31, 2015
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Author Topic: ACH Next Dividend - Jan. 31, 2015  (Read 53714 times)

cobaltskky

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #240 on: October 24, 2014, 11:59:48 pm »

And on the subject of paying dividends to shares still held, also remember that your "friend" Heather has been paying out dividends to the 500k or 600K shares that she secretly owns too.

So before she was keeping 86%, now its more like 90%.

Tomorrow I'm going to research this backwards, and find out how many shares are actually owned by INVESTORS, not sockpuppets.

I thought about this a bit more.  I'm not sure what you mean by secretly, if ACH paid her a salary and then she purchased ACH assets with that personal money?  Under the model that I suggested, where ACH paid out salary to employees, and then employees purchased ACH assets with their salary, wouldn't it make sense for those employees to receive dividends on the ACH assets that they personally hold?  I'd argue that personally holding assets creates additional incentive to perform for the company, since they would have a vested interest in seeing the business grow.  I believe James has used this same argument before.

I'd like to state again that I'm putting forth speculation from a different viewpoint for consideration here.  I don't know for certain that this is what is happening, just as anybody else who is only looking at the transactions can't know for certain what is occurring.
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jefdiesel

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #241 on: October 25, 2014, 12:05:03 am »

Right but now I've found 5 accounts holding 10% of shares all paid in bursts over three weeks from one account, via a mixing account,  and these accounts all bought ach on the market,  and nothing else and kept zero nxt.
If employees wanted nxt why didn't she just transfer the shares?
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trollstocker

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #242 on: October 25, 2014, 01:06:17 am »

And on the subject of paying dividends to shares still held, also remember that your "friend" Heather has been paying out dividends to the 500k or 600K shares that she secretly owns too.

So before she was keeping 86%, now its more like 90%.

Tomorrow I'm going to research this backwards, and find out how many shares are actually owned by INVESTORS, not sockpuppets.

I thought about this a bit more.  I'm not sure what you mean by secretly, if ACH paid her a salary and then she purchased ACH assets with that personal money?  Under the model that I suggested, where ACH paid out salary to employees, and then employees purchased ACH assets with their salary, wouldn't it make sense for those employees to receive dividends on the ACH assets that they personally hold?  I'd argue that personally holding assets creates additional incentive to perform for the company, since they would have a vested interest in seeing the business grow.  I believe James has used this same argument before.

I'd like to state again that I'm putting forth speculation from a different viewpoint for consideration here.  I don't know for certain that this is what is happening, just as anybody else who is only looking at the transactions can't know for certain what is occurring.

Well I am going on the record here that i also like Heather..and i will also go on the record that if there was ever a forensic audit done with lots of accounts on the AE there would be much hanky panky going
on there..IMO..I have watch CERTAIN assets sorta pumped and sold out within seconds of being released
and it was very interesting who managed to buy them first! and many unhappy nxters were left scratching their heads

I will leave it at that..and yes i think WAY to much attention is given to this non issue..maybe she was just trying to make a market to get some interest...because she is definitely not pumping the price and dumping it

it happens every day on wall street between market makers I call it swapping spit and it is done ALL the time.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 01:42:33 am by trollstocker »
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whale

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #243 on: October 25, 2014, 03:06:58 am »

Heather is a lovely person so I understand why she is being so heavily defended by you skky but she has not put down the allegations with an explanation (the current investor story has been debunked). Saying NXTinspect has an agenda is a poor way to respond to genuine concerns for the community. For the record both Jef and chanc3r hold/ held ACH and I was in talks with Heather to buy a large position (before this was uncovered). NXTinspect was created to help the community in these situations. We are merely stating that there appears to be suspicious activity.

Not responding to concerns is a red flag for me. If she cannot be honest about these accounts, what makes you believe she is being honest about income, traffic etc?





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altcoinherald

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #244 on: October 25, 2014, 10:32:53 am »

Hi everyone~

I think that everyone has given their thoughts on the ACH asset.

I really don't have the time to go 'tit for tat' with all of the things that were said by everyone.

AltcoinHerald.com has had a web presence LONG before we ever came here - and we wanted to offer a 'win-win' revenue share to anyone that was interested in it.

It's been structured in the same format from the beginning. The 'inspectors' understood the payout structure, as it's described in full on their page, so I'm not sure how it was misunderstood by Jef - one of the lead inspectors.

I had second thoughts about verifying my identity when I asked for a link to their information sharing policies and they couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Shortly thereafter this thread caught fire..

Back to the subject of business, our second dividend will be issued on October 31, 2014.

Any shares that have been purchased on Poloniex will receive dividends, so it doesn't make a difference if your shares are purchased here or there.

As always, if you'd like to stay abreast of developments, I ask that you refer to our official page here going forward. https://alth.co/rDPPI

I will update this thread with any pertinent and important information as it becomes available.

Thanks for your consideration and have a great day!

BigTed

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #245 on: October 25, 2014, 10:42:35 am »

Heather is a lovely person so I understand why she is being so heavily defended by you skky but she has not put down the allegations with an explanation (the current investor story has been debunked). Saying NXTinspect has an agenda is a poor way to respond to genuine concerns for the community. For the record both Jef and chanc3r hold/ held ACH and I was in talks with Heather to buy a large position (before this was uncovered). NXTinspect was created to help the community in these situations. We are merely stating that there appears to be suspicious activity.

Not responding to concerns is a red flag for me. If she cannot be honest about these accounts, what makes you believe she is being honest about income, traffic etc?

NXTInspect is a failed asset with a ridiculous market cap of roughly $60k. It's a bad idea that has no support from anyone. ACH is a well-known website that has been operating since February. In that time span we've attracted 10,000 social media supporters, countless pageviews and many sponsors.

How dare YOU continue to make baseless accusations in our thread. NXTInspect has done relatively NOTHING at all in the world of cryptocurrency to merit any valuation at all.

You should probably focus your attention on your own revenue-less asset. ACH has also been doing our share of investigation of 'assets' on  your 'exchange.'

You're way too comfortable attacking Heather and you need to find a new hobby or just get to work and accomplish something real.

P.S. your 'appeal to authority' by giving yourself the inane title of 'Inspector' and your cultish 'for us or against us' way of communicating is winning you no fans in the broader world of crypto.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:45:25 am by BigTed »
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printshop

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #246 on: October 25, 2014, 11:10:53 am »

One of the big problems with blockchain technology is that it isn't actually anonymous. And people sometimes make the mistake of assuming that the balance of accounts on the blockchain is reflective of the actual balance of accounts in a business.

I have spent a long time considering the ACH situation, and I have proven my point above with the "KNS Holdings" system; which shows that the balance of accounts on the blockchain does not reflect what a business is selling on the market.

The problem with ACH is that while KNS holdings is a very well-defined account, with well-defined rules, investors are confused by the ACH system. There is a lack of transparency over the internal system Heather is using to keep track of these shares, and investors are asking for some of that old-time ACH transparency.

Maybe Heather doesn't need to respond. This is Crypto. Heather is free to ignore the questions. But attacking people who bring the problem to light is dangerous. I was impressed with whale's post;

"Saying NXTinspect has an agenda is a poor way to respond to genuine concerns for the community. For the record both Jef and chanc3r hold/ held ACH and I was in talks with Heather to buy a large position..." --whale

So, what needs to be done now? Nothing? We've had our say, Heather has indicated she will ignore the complaints. People have been made aware. Maybe it's time to back off now and let the smart money do what it wants. If Heather somehow gets over this scandal, more power to her.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:16:28 am by printshop »
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BigTed

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #247 on: October 25, 2014, 12:03:35 pm »

One of the big problems with blockchain technology is that it isn't actually anonymous. And people sometimes make the mistake of assuming that the balance of accounts on the blockchain is reflective of the actual balance of accounts in a business.

I have spent a long time considering the ACH situation, and I have proven my point above with the "KNS Holdings" system; which shows that the balance of accounts on the blockchain does not reflect what a business is selling on the market.

The problem with ACH is that while KNS holdings is a very well-defined account, with well-defined rules, investors are confused by the ACH system. There is a lack of transparency over the internal system Heather is using to keep track of these shares, and investors are asking for some of that old-time ACH transparency.

Maybe Heather doesn't need to respond. This is Crypto. Heather is free to ignore the questions. But attacking people who bring the problem to light is dangerous. I was impressed with whale's post;

"Saying NXTinspect has an agenda is a poor way to respond to genuine concerns for the community. For the record both Jef and chanc3r hold/ held ACH and I was in talks with Heather to buy a large position..." --whale

So, what needs to be done now? Nothing? We've had our say, Heather has indicated she will ignore the complaints. People have been made aware. Maybe it's time to back off now and let the smart money do what it wants. If Heather somehow gets over this scandal, more power to her.

You're a comical guy with way too many opinions considering your track record of failed ideas and assets.

Since you're so quick to criticize others, it's worth pointing out that you initially started on Coinsortium.co with this description: "KPS (Kongzi Print Shop) is a personal services education company serving the unique needs of ESL students in China and Japan."

Since that time you've moved on to becoming a 'News Services' and an asset 'Inspector' and I believe you're also buying buildings?

My advice to you is the same as I offered 'whale.' Focus on your own failed assets. Every time you point the finger at someone, you'll find there's two fingers pointing back.

BTW, since you're probably not clear on the backstory, here it is.

'whale' tried to setup some strange deal using other people's money in order to acquire 60% of the ACH asset at what he hoped would be a greatly reduced price. He wanted confidentiality, for obvious purposes. He planned on doing almost no work and collecting everyone's cash on order to pay it. He would also get 25% of ACH's monthly revenue share while he sat around like true royalty and an overpaid middleman.

There's no question that 'whale' understood the terms of the deal just fine. In his brain-dead review he wrote that it would take 9 years to return a profit. That means he understood that 5 million tokens represented 40% of our revenues. But he apparently doesn't understand that  there's something called a 'growth rate' which comes from improving services with additional capital.

It's clear that 'Kongzi' and 'NXTInspector' have zero credible qualifications as asset inspectors or as information providers. If you want any more information from us, you will need to produce your information policies.

Otherwise we're dealing with self appointed 'inspectors/trolls' who are casually attacking others.

Stick to your own thread and your own asset. You would make more money that way.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 12:06:01 pm by BigTed »
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whale

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #248 on: October 25, 2014, 12:35:31 pm »

Hi everyone~

I think that everyone has given their thoughts on the ACH asset.

I really don't have the time to go 'tit for tat' with all of the things that were said by everyone.

AltcoinHerald.com has had a web presence LONG before we ever came here - and we wanted to offer a 'win-win' revenue share to anyone that was interested in it.

It's been structured in the same format from the beginning. The 'inspectors' understood the payout structure, as it's described in full on their page, so I'm not sure how it was misunderstood by Jef - one of the lead inspectors.

I had second thoughts about verifying my identity when I asked for a link to their information sharing policies and they couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Shortly thereafter this thread caught fire..

Back to the subject of business, our second dividend will be issued on October 31, 2014.

Any shares that have been purchased on Poloniex will receive dividends, so it doesn't make a difference if your shares are purchased here or there.

As always, if you'd like to stay abreast of developments, I ask that you refer to our official page here going forward. https://alth.co/rDPPI

I will update this thread with any pertinent and important information as it becomes available.

Thanks for your consideration and have a great day!

It is your asset, you are free to answer what you like about it. Jef just put up some information that looked suspicious. However, as you can see, it is not only us who is concerned.

I had second thoughts about verifying my identity when I asked for a link to their information sharing policies and they couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Shortly thereafter this thread caught fire..

You replied 4 days ago... Your thread was catching fire long before then. Chanc3r is still working on a privacy policy as we need it for verification. By simply having an ardeva profile, you almost fulfill the full requirement.

PS. Creating a profile 'BigTed' to abuse everyone's responses isn't a good look. When the account was created today, uses terms such as 'our, we etc' and knows private conversations between yourself and I, it doesn't leave much to the imagination... I'm assuming it is your partner/ husband (based from the writing style)? They also may want to wait on more details for MEDIOS before making accusations. Currently only two people know the scope of the project, so I find it difficult to think that they know what they are talking about.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 01:01:29 pm by whale »
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Damelon

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #249 on: October 25, 2014, 12:49:28 pm »

I'm going to weigh in here from my own background of communication and opine that when it comes to phrasing we have a LOT of work to do in our community.

Regardless of content, the way content is presented far outweighs the actual information communicated.

I've seen some pretty heavy emotionally laden labels being pulled out very quickly "RED FLAG", "Seems like a thief", "bad business practice", etc. etc.

No only in this thread, but also in other ones.

Now, even though there may be red flags (boy, there are many of those), do you really think that anyone is going to cooperate with you if you start out like that?
That's holding people at gun point to provide info with a bit "Or else" hovering above the entire transaction.

We really need to come at this from a way where it's clear we want to make the AE safe for investors, while at the same time acknowledging that not all people will cooperate.
Inspecting agencies need to build trust, too! They are start ups, just like the companies they are inspecting.
From an outsider perspective, I am a bit taken aback at the aggressive tone that is being taken. I completely get that you want to offer a service, but from an outsider perspective, I'm more than a little flabbergasted at the tone bóth of you are taking, towards the companies you are auditing, ánd towards each other.

The same also goes for the companies under scrutiny, by the way.
BigTed, I gather you are involved with ACH. You seem to be pissed off. Well, welcome to a community that has been screwed over a few times. You will have to allow for quite a bit of suspicion.

Some people will trust you, but you will have to understand that not everything will be taken for granted. Wórk with the people here. Levelling attacks on a personal level néver works, even if you feel they were levelled at you. That's a one way ticket to the playground for all of us and doesn't help either you ór us.

I am not saying in any way that something is right or amiss here with ACH. I don't have the background to judge this either way. I am merely commenting on a very harmful way of communicating.

We're trying to build a system with checks and balances here. That takes TIME. We cannot expect inspecting agencies to have the trust that they want to get there immediately. Personally, I would opt for both of them to find a form where their info is easily available in a "descriptive" form for everyone and nót having them barge into threads proclaiming their positions.

Due diligence on the part of buyers is good, but if people want to disregard red flags (for ANY) reason, that's up to them and them alone. Any other form will turn the rating agencies into committees dispensing dogma. The info needs to be readily available, but if I, as an adult, want to go ahead anyway, I would not feel comfortable by being branded an idiot for ignoring red flags. That's mý responsibility.

In conclusion, I would like to see if we can define our goals much more clear here. Are we trying to "out bad actors" or are we trying to "make this a better environment for trade"? The first one now seems the case and is a very narrow aim, for me. The first goal is a means to get to the second one I stated and means a much broader scope of vision. We need to build skills across a much broader spectrum to get there.

If it seems like I am handling our slaps all over the place in this post, then you are correct. I've read a few of these threads now and am not at all happy with the tone that is evolving. Any Asset that has the least problems tends to devolve into a kind of witch hunt where, within a few hours or days, there is absolutely no space anymore to set things aright or hear the others voice. That does not help in any way, regardless of what is happening. That pisses me off, as I think we have a potential chunk of solid gold on our hands here, and I feel it's being destroyed by pettiness while it should be being built with professionalism.
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cobaltskky

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #250 on: October 25, 2014, 12:58:47 pm »

Saying NXTinspect has an agenda is a poor way to respond to genuine concerns for the community. For the record both Jef and chanc3r hold/ held ACH and I was in talks with Heather to buy a large position (before this was uncovered). NXTinspect was created to help the community in these situations. We are merely stating that there appears to be suspicious activity.

My concerns are just as genuine as yours, Whale.  My concerns, in this regard, being that members of the Nxt Community need to find a balance between welcoming business on the Nxt platform and protecting the interests of community members.  Right now, I see the pendulum swung very far toward protecting the interests of community members - not only in this thread, but in several others.  It seems to me that the current zeitgeist here on the forums is to be irrationally suspicious, put existing businesses through the ringer, make disrespectful accusations against them(in their own thread!), disregard business etiquette, and spin inconclusive data with a slant toward guilty until proven innocent.

I posted an additional viewpoint here in ACH's thread to attempt to counterbalance the FUD that was prevalent.  I did something similar on the FunBot thread - so, it's not that I'm specifically "defending"(your words) ACH.  My hope is that anyone who is considering doing business on the Nxt platform, that comes across this thread, will see that there is at least one member of this community that will give their business the benefit of the doubt when they see blockchain activity who's intention and structure isn't readily apparent to them.

I'd also like to mention that I never stated NXTinspect has an agenda.  You are misinterpreting my words and intention.  What I stated was:

"PS  I'm very curious as to what set off this attack on Altcoin Herald.  They've been set upon in the past couple weeks.  It's like some members of the community are holding a grudge against them.  Could it be because they are a competitor to SuperNET News, since they are one of two cryptomedia outlet businesses on the NXT AE?  I certainly hope this isn't some form of corporate sabotage or a personal vendetta by influential individuals...That gives NXT AE a bad rep, and pushes new business away."

And I'd like to state again that my concerns are just as valid as yours.  Jef has used the blockchain in his analysis of ACH.  I have used information confided in me by different individuals, my observations of recent actions taken by some community members, and what I know of various individual's personality traits to formulate a scenario in which the above could fit the data that I've gathered.  I never said that the scenario that I described above is a certainty or that I'm even confident in it.  I'm scared that scenario is happening, because I'm beginning to question who I can trust to partner in business with and who I can call friend.  I'm also scared that my own businesses will be set upon by the asset inquisitors, and I'll be called on to prove my innocence after they have convinced the community that I'm guilty by spinning blockchain data or my own business methodology against me.  My fear makes me less inclined to offer my business opportunities on the Nxt Platform.

I'm a person oriented toward solutions.  That what I do all day at my 9-5 - meet with customers, actively listen to their problems, and design a solution that meets their requirements.  Since they are unable to build our software themselves, I find myself in a position of having power over how they perform their day to day work activity.  I see that a major responsibility - I can make it more difficult for them, or I can ease their burden.  I don't assume that I know what's best for them because I don't walk in their shoes day in and day out.  That's why I go to them to ask them how they would like to see the system work.  Due to technical limitations, I can't always architect a solution to their specific requirements, but I get as close as I can to meeting those requirements.  And place a ticket with our vendor to add features to address what I can't.

Now I'm going to speak directly to NXTinspect, and also to KNS(though to a smaller degree).  I preface my thoughts with the above statement to give you background on my methodology and mindset: I haven't seen the same conscientiousness, delicacy, and self-discipline from the Nxt Community's two self-appointed asset review businesses as what I strive to demonstrate for my customers.  I feel burned by that - I originally supported the founding principles of NXTinspect, but as I've seen how those principles have been executed in actuality, I no longer support their efforts.  It seems that both review organizations rushed to develop their methodologies without solicitation of input from those who would be subjected to their practices.  That's where I cry foul.  I believe there are several other members of the Nxt Community who feel burned by how the review businesses conduct themselves.

As a solution for the above, in an attempt to build bridges in the interest of the community, I propose that a thread be initiated to house a "town hall" meeting. (bolded for those who only skim)  The goal would be to generate an open dialogue between the three major stakeholders in protecting our community against those who would seek to abuse it: the investors, the businesses, and the review boards.  The pertinent posts to this topic is strew through-out several threads on the forums, making it exceedingly difficult to see the progression of the dialogue.  A "town hall" thread would make it simpler to follow the conversation and respond with one's own thoughts and feelings on the current topic in discussion.  Coming out of such a dialogue, I would hope that we'd achieve a consensus and a partnership among the stakeholders, in the interests of protecting our community in a way that the stakeholders can agree on.  We would each be responsible for inviting to the thread the parties that we think hold a stake in the outcome.

I'd like to see us all in this together, rather than squabbling about who's "right" and who's "wrong", and who's insinuating what, and who has what agendas.  We, as a community, are much stronger in solidarity than we are in factions.

I encourage anybody viewing this post to respond to the above proposal with a yes or no, that way I'll know if I should kick it off or not.
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printshop

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #251 on: October 25, 2014, 01:00:41 pm »

...we're dealing with self appointed 'inspectors/trolls' who are casually attacking others.

I think you misread me as someone who thinks they're important. I'm no-one. I get that. That's why I just collect information and try not to spew too much opinion. I also agree with you that we're new and that it will take some time for us to learn how to add value. One thing I've learned is that a prolonged discussion of a company's faults belongs in it's own thread, not in the company's announcement thread. I don't think the discussion here belongs in this thread so I will make a new one. Good luck with ACH, as I said, what's been said is all on record. Time to move on?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 01:04:23 pm by printshop »
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cobaltskky

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #252 on: October 25, 2014, 01:02:25 pm »

I strongly agree with Damelon's sentiments.  I would like to think that a town hall meeting would help bridge the communication gap.
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BigTed

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #253 on: October 25, 2014, 01:03:46 pm »

Hi everyone~

I think that everyone has given their thoughts on the ACH asset.

I really don't have the time to go 'tit for tat' with all of the things that were said by everyone.

AltcoinHerald.com has had a web presence LONG before we ever came here - and we wanted to offer a 'win-win' revenue share to anyone that was interested in it.

It's been structured in the same format from the beginning. The 'inspectors' understood the payout structure, as it's described in full on their page, so I'm not sure how it was misunderstood by Jef - one of the lead inspectors.

I had second thoughts about verifying my identity when I asked for a link to their information sharing policies and they couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Shortly thereafter this thread caught fire..

Back to the subject of business, our second dividend will be issued on October 31, 2014.

Any shares that have been purchased on Poloniex will receive dividends, so it doesn't make a difference if your shares are purchased here or there.

As always, if you'd like to stay abreast of developments, I ask that you refer to our official page here going forward. https://alth.co/rDPPI

I will update this thread with any pertinent and important information as it becomes available.

Thanks for your consideration and have a great day!

It is your asset, you are free to answer what you like about it. Jef just put up some information that looked suspicious. However, as you can see, it is not only us who is concerned.

I had second thoughts about verifying my identity when I asked for a link to their information sharing policies and they couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Shortly thereafter this thread caught fire..

You replied 4 days ago... Your thread was catching fire long before then. Chanc3r is still working on a privacy policy as we need it for verification. By simply having an ardeva profile, you almost fulfill the full requirement.

PS. Creating a profile 'BigTed' to abuse everyone's responses isn't a good look. When the account was created today, uses terms such as 'our, we etc' and knows private conversations between yourself and I, it doesn't leave much to the imagination... You also may want to wait on more details for MEDIOS before making accusations. Currently only two people know the scope of the project, so I find it difficult to think that you know what you are talking about.

Once again you go on the wrong tangent and make another baseless accusation.

Obviously I'm involved with ACH and have been since February. I have an existing internet identity and I have no interest in sharing it with you for the purpose of arguing on this forum.

You seem to be conflating several issues. Once again, I feel you've aired your opinions. Everyone has heard your side of the story.

Move on. Your output of 10 reviews of under 100 words shows a work record where a lot left to be desired. Get out there and hustle and do some more reviews. You are not going to be able to sell a subscription to a 'service' where you basically post the information on a forum. You have a lot of work to do if you're looking to establish a revenue stream. Business these days is tough. It's not easy to 'push a button' and get rich.

My suggestion is once again to work on your own assets and improve the service you offer.
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trollstocker

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #254 on: October 25, 2014, 01:35:52 pm »

I'm going to weigh in here from my own background of communication and opine that when it comes to phrasing we have a LOT of work to do in our community.

Regardless of content, the way content is presented far outweighs the actual information communicated.

I've seen some pretty heavy emotionally laden labels being pulled out very quickly "RED FLAG", "Seems like a thief", "bad business practice", etc. etc.

No only in this thread, but also in other ones.

Now, even though there may be red flags (boy, there are many of those), do you really think that anyone is going to cooperate with you if you start out like that?
That's holding people at gun point to provide info with a bit "Or else" hovering above the entire transaction.

We really need to come at this from a way where it's clear we want to make the AE safe for investors, while at the same time acknowledging that not all people will cooperate.
Inspecting agencies need to build trust, too! They are start ups, just like the companies they are inspecting.
From an outsider perspective, I am a bit taken aback at the aggressive tone that is being taken. I completely get that you want to offer a service, but from an outsider perspective, I'm more than a little flabbergasted at the tone bóth of you are taking, towards the companies you are auditing, ánd towards each other.

The same also goes for the companies under scrutiny, by the way.
BigTed, I gather you are involved with ACH. You seem to be pissed off. Well, welcome to a community that has been screwed over a few times. You will have to allow for quite a bit of suspicion.

Some people will trust you, but you will have to understand that not everything will be taken for granted. Wórk with the people here. Levelling attacks on a personal level néver works, even if you feel they were levelled at you. That's a one way ticket to the playground for all of us and doesn't help either you ór us.

I am not saying in any way that something is right or amiss here with ACH. I don't have the background to judge this either way. I am merely commenting on a very harmful way of communicating.

We're trying to build a system with checks and balances here. That takes TIME. We cannot expect inspecting agencies to have the trust that they want to get there immediately. Personally, I would opt for both of them to find a form where their info is easily available in a "descriptive" form for everyone and nót having them barge into threads proclaiming their positions.

Due diligence on the part of buyers is good, but if people want to disregard red flags (for ANY) reason, that's up to them and them alone. Any other form will turn the rating agencies into committees dispensing dogma. The info needs to be readily available, but if I, as an adult, want to go ahead anyway, I would not feel comfortable by being branded an idiot for ignoring red flags. That's mý responsibility.

In conclusion, I would like to see if we can define our goals much more clear here. Are we trying to "out bad actors" or are we trying to "make this a better environment for trade"? The first one now seems the case and is a very narrow aim, for me. The first goal is a means to get to the second one I stated and means a much broader scope of vision. We need to build skills across a much broader spectrum to get there.

If it seems like I am handling our slaps all over the place in this post, then you are correct. I've read a few of these threads now and am not at all happy with the tone that is evolving. Any Asset that has the least problems tends to devolve into a kind of witch hunt where, within a few hours or days, there is absolutely no space anymore to set things aright or hear the others voice. That does not help in any way, regardless of what is happening. That pisses me off, as I think we have a potential chunk of solid gold on our hands here, and I feel it's being destroyed by pettiness while it should be being built with professionalism.

+1
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trollstocker

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #255 on: October 25, 2014, 01:47:55 pm »

Saying NXTinspect has an agenda is a poor way to respond to genuine concerns for the community. For the record both Jef and chanc3r hold/ held ACH and I was in talks with Heather to buy a large position (before this was uncovered). NXTinspect was created to help the community in these situations. We are merely stating that there appears to be suspicious activity.

My concerns are just as genuine as yours, Whale.  My concerns, in this regard, being that members of the Nxt Community need to find a balance between welcoming business on the Nxt platform and protecting the interests of community members.  Right now, I see the pendulum swung very far toward protecting the interests of community members - not only in this thread, but in several others.  It seems to me that the current zeitgeist here on the forums is to be irrationally suspicious, put existing businesses through the ringer, make disrespectful accusations against them(in their own thread!), disregard business etiquette, and spin inconclusive data with a slant toward guilty until proven innocent.

I posted an additional viewpoint here in ACH's thread to attempt to counterbalance the FUD that was prevalent.  I did something similar on the FunBot thread - so, it's not that I'm specifically "defending"(your words) ACH.  My hope is that anyone who is considering doing business on the Nxt platform, that comes across this thread, will see that there is at least one member of this community that will give their business the benefit of the doubt when they see blockchain activity who's intention and structure isn't readily apparent to them.

I'd also like to mention that I never stated NXTinspect has an agenda.  You are misinterpreting my words and intention.  What I stated was:

"PS  I'm very curious as to what set off this attack on Altcoin Herald.  They've been set upon in the past couple weeks.  It's like some members of the community are holding a grudge against them.  Could it be because they are a competitor to SuperNET News, since they are one of two cryptomedia outlet businesses on the NXT AE?  I certainly hope this isn't some form of corporate sabotage or a personal vendetta by influential individuals...That gives NXT AE a bad rep, and pushes new business away."

And I'd like to state again that my concerns are just as valid as yours.  Jef has used the blockchain in his analysis of ACH.  I have used information confided in me by different individuals, my observations of recent actions taken by some community members, and what I know of various individual's personality traits to formulate a scenario in which the above could fit the data that I've gathered.  I never said that the scenario that I described above is a certainty or that I'm even confident in it.  I'm scared that scenario is happening, because I'm beginning to question who I can trust to partner in business with and who I can call friend.  I'm also scared that my own businesses will be set upon by the asset inquisitors, and I'll be called on to prove my innocence after they have convinced the community that I'm guilty by spinning blockchain data or my own business methodology against me.  My fear makes me less inclined to offer my business opportunities on the Nxt Platform.

I'm a person oriented toward solutions.  That what I do all day at my 9-5 - meet with customers, actively listen to their problems, and design a solution that meets their requirements.  Since they are unable to build our software themselves, I find myself in a position of having power over how they perform their day to day work activity.  I see that a major responsibility - I can make it more difficult for them, or I can ease their burden.  I don't assume that I know what's best for them because I don't walk in their shoes day in and day out.  That's why I go to them to ask them how they would like to see the system work.  Due to technical limitations, I can't always architect a solution to their specific requirements, but I get as close as I can to meeting those requirements.  And place a ticket with our vendor to add features to address what I can't.

Now I'm going to speak directly to NXTinspect, and also to KNS(though to a smaller degree).  I preface my thoughts with the above statement to give you background on my methodology and mindset: I haven't seen the same conscientiousness, delicacy, and self-discipline from the Nxt Community's two self-appointed asset review businesses as what I strive to demonstrate for my customers.  I feel burned by that - I originally supported the founding principles of NXTinspect, but as I've seen how those principles have been executed in actuality, I no longer support their efforts.  It seems that both review organizations rushed to develop their methodologies without solicitation of input from those who would be subjected to their practices.  That's where I cry foul.  I believe there are several other members of the Nxt Community who feel burned by how the review businesses conduct themselves.

As a solution for the above, in an attempt to build bridges in the interest of the community, I propose that a thread be initiated to house a "town hall" meeting. (bolded for those who only skim)  The goal would be to generate an open dialogue between the three major stakeholders in protecting our community against those who would seek to abuse it: the investors, the businesses, and the review boards.  The pertinent posts to this topic is strew through-out several threads on the forums, making it exceedingly difficult to see the progression of the dialogue.  A "town hall" thread would make it simpler to follow the conversation and respond with one's own thoughts and feelings on the current topic in discussion.  Coming out of such a dialogue, I would hope that we'd achieve a consensus and a partnership among the stakeholders, in the interests of protecting our community in a way that the stakeholders can agree on.  We would each be responsible for inviting to the thread the parties that we think hold a stake in the outcome.

I'd like to see us all in this together, rather than squabbling about who's "right" and who's "wrong", and who's insinuating what, and who has what agendas.  We, as a community, are much stronger in solidarity than we are in factions.

I encourage anybody viewing this post to respond to the above proposal with a yes or no, that way I'll know if I should kick it off or not.
+1 Yes
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Darkhorse

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #256 on: October 25, 2014, 01:48:11 pm »

I'm going to weigh in here from my own background of communication and opine that when it comes to phrasing we have a LOT of work to do in our community.

Regardless of content, the way content is presented far outweighs the actual information communicated.

I've seen some pretty heavy emotionally laden labels being pulled out very quickly "RED FLAG", "Seems like a thief", "bad business practice", etc. etc.

No only in this thread, but also in other ones.

Now, even though there may be red flags (boy, there are many of those), do you really think that anyone is going to cooperate with you if you start out like that?
That's holding people at gun point to provide info with a bit "Or else" hovering above the entire transaction.

We really need to come at this from a way where it's clear we want to make the AE safe for investors, while at the same time acknowledging that not all people will cooperate.
Inspecting agencies need to build trust, too! They are start ups, just like the companies they are inspecting.
From an outsider perspective, I am a bit taken aback at the aggressive tone that is being taken. I completely get that you want to offer a service, but from an outsider perspective, I'm more than a little flabbergasted at the tone bóth of you are taking, towards the companies you are auditing, ánd towards each other.

The same also goes for the companies under scrutiny, by the way.
BigTed, I gather you are involved with ACH. You seem to be pissed off. Well, welcome to a community that has been screwed over a few times. You will have to allow for quite a bit of suspicion.

Some people will trust you, but you will have to understand that not everything will be taken for granted. Wórk with the people here. Levelling attacks on a personal level néver works, even if you feel they were levelled at you. That's a one way ticket to the playground for all of us and doesn't help either you ór us.

I am not saying in any way that something is right or amiss here with ACH. I don't have the background to judge this either way. I am merely commenting on a very harmful way of communicating.

We're trying to build a system with checks and balances here. That takes TIME. We cannot expect inspecting agencies to have the trust that they want to get there immediately. Personally, I would opt for both of them to find a form where their info is easily available in a "descriptive" form for everyone and nót having them barge into threads proclaiming their positions.

Due diligence on the part of buyers is good, but if people want to disregard red flags (for ANY) reason, that's up to them and them alone. Any other form will turn the rating agencies into committees dispensing dogma. The info needs to be readily available, but if I, as an adult, want to go ahead anyway, I would not feel comfortable by being branded an idiot for ignoring red flags. That's mý responsibility.

In conclusion, I would like to see if we can define our goals much more clear here. Are we trying to "out bad actors" or are we trying to "make this a better environment for trade"? The first one now seems the case and is a very narrow aim, for me. The first goal is a means to get to the second one I stated and means a much broader scope of vision. We need to build skills across a much broader spectrum to get there.

If it seems like I am handling our slaps all over the place in this post, then you are correct. I've read a few of these threads now and am not at all happy with the tone that is evolving. Any Asset that has the least problems tends to devolve into a kind of witch hunt where, within a few hours or days, there is absolutely no space anymore to set things aright or hear the others voice. That does not help in any way, regardless of what is happening. That pisses me off, as I think we have a potential chunk of solid gold on our hands here, and I feel it's being destroyed by pettiness while it should be being built with professionalism.

+1

Damelon has a valid point here. The tone is going into the wrong direction. Townhall idea is good, do it. Btw this is very new, asset review/auditing. A lot of grey areas. Investors and reviewers should sit down and talk. Thats how real word ISO standards are achieved. Remember, you dont work for the system. The system is there to help you.
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whale

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #257 on: October 25, 2014, 01:55:32 pm »

Hi everyone~

I think that everyone has given their thoughts on the ACH asset.

I really don't have the time to go 'tit for tat' with all of the things that were said by everyone.

AltcoinHerald.com has had a web presence LONG before we ever came here - and we wanted to offer a 'win-win' revenue share to anyone that was interested in it.

It's been structured in the same format from the beginning. The 'inspectors' understood the payout structure, as it's described in full on their page, so I'm not sure how it was misunderstood by Jef - one of the lead inspectors.

I had second thoughts about verifying my identity when I asked for a link to their information sharing policies and they couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Shortly thereafter this thread caught fire..

Back to the subject of business, our second dividend will be issued on October 31, 2014.

Any shares that have been purchased on Poloniex will receive dividends, so it doesn't make a difference if your shares are purchased here or there.

As always, if you'd like to stay abreast of developments, I ask that you refer to our official page here going forward. https://alth.co/rDPPI

I will update this thread with any pertinent and important information as it becomes available.

Thanks for your consideration and have a great day!

It is your asset, you are free to answer what you like about it. Jef just put up some information that looked suspicious. However, as you can see, it is not only us who is concerned.

I had second thoughts about verifying my identity when I asked for a link to their information sharing policies and they couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Shortly thereafter this thread caught fire..

You replied 4 days ago... Your thread was catching fire long before then. Chanc3r is still working on a privacy policy as we need it for verification. By simply having an ardeva profile, you almost fulfill the full requirement.

PS. Creating a profile 'BigTed' to abuse everyone's responses isn't a good look. When the account was created today, uses terms such as 'our, we etc' and knows private conversations between yourself and I, it doesn't leave much to the imagination... You also may want to wait on more details for MEDIOS before making accusations. Currently only two people know the scope of the project, so I find it difficult to think that you know what you are talking about.

Once again you go on the wrong tangent and make another baseless accusation.

Obviously I'm involved with ACH and have been since February. I have an existing internet identity and I have no interest in sharing it with you for the purpose of arguing on this forum.

You seem to be conflating several issues. Once again, I feel you've aired your opinions. Everyone has heard your side of the story.

Move on. Your output of 10 reviews of under 100 words shows a work record where a lot left to be desired. Get out there and hustle and do some more reviews. You are not going to be able to sell a subscription to a 'service' where you basically post the information on a forum. You have a lot of work to do if you're looking to establish a revenue stream. Business these days is tough. It's not easy to 'push a button' and get rich.

My suggestion is once again to work on your own assets and improve the service you offer.

My edited post already realized this (check the time). I won't lower myself to senseless asset bashing or provide any 'suggestions', I don't have anything to prove.

I think this has been blown out of proportion. These concerns were not started by NXTinspect but with mounting evidence, Jef did some of his own research. I privately reached out to Heather to sort this out because I predicted the thread would go in this direction; Heather declined my help. If questions are not answered and help is rejected, our only option is to post our findings. If someone can suggest a better method, I would love to hear it (feedback is always appreciated).

If you have any further concerns, pm me. I have a weekend to enjoy  :)

Caveat emptor.
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duluth

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #258 on: October 25, 2014, 02:03:39 pm »

I've read a few of these threads now and am not at all happy with the tone that is evolving. Any Asset that has the least problems tends to devolve into a kind of witch hunt where, within a few hours or days, there is absolutely no space anymore to set things aright or hear the others voice. That does not help in any way, regardless of what is happening. That pisses me off, as I think we have a potential chunk of solid gold on our hands here, and I feel it's being destroyed by pettiness while it should be being built with professionalism.

+1

I've read quite a few of those threads, as I'am trying to better understand nxt assets and how community works, and it turns out  that this tone is unpleasant and does not add much to the debate. Just my very humble opinion...
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sv3n

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Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #259 on: October 25, 2014, 02:21:39 pm »

As always Damelon, you've come through with great insight.  I know I have ben on the questioning side of this discussion, and when the inspecting groups came in, I decided to back down and just listen for a bit.  I am very disappointed with the way they have been performing and they have not done much good as far as confiding trust in assets for me.  I could not in good faith show the threads on this forum to someone like my father and convince him that these are real companies trying to provide real products, and there are real companies inspecting and securing confidence for investors.

I feel I got a little wrapped up in trying to "prove a scandal" and not secure my investment.  This is why I haven't been active on this thread recently.  We need to understand how we can move a decentralized community into a realm where people are not always looking over their shoulder.  This is bad for business, and it's bad for investors.  I still have questions about how funds are being spent, but I agree with cobalt that posting demands in a public thread is not the way to handle it.  We can't make conclusions within hours of reading a post.  Investigations take a lot of time, and that was my mistake, I did a quick investigation and came to a snap decision.

I really do encourage the idea of a town hall, as it may allow us to hit the reset button on all sides.  I think we all need to step back for a second and really understand what are our goals in this, as well as their implications.  It's really quite unfortunate that one of the few businesses that have an actual presence outside of this community is the one we decided to go after.  I initially invested because of that reason alone.

Let us not treat this discussion as only resolving an issue with ACH, but as a chance to understand where we want to align ourselves in the future.  How do we want to handle ourselves and represent ourselves to the outside world while still maintaing the strong community we have today.
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