elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
ACH Next Dividend - Jan. 31, 2015  
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Latest Stable Nxt Client: Nxt 1.11.15 | Latest Experimental Nxt Client: Nxt 1.12.0e

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 21  All

Author Topic: ACH Next Dividend - Jan. 31, 2015  (Read 45963 times)

pf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +161/-197
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1340
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #180 on: October 22, 2014, 02:57:06 pm »

For non dilutable, yes which is what this asset is. For dilutable, it is not the correct method, but let's not get out the pitchforks for something that is correctly stated in the OP. The method used is the correct distribution method pf.

Seems like if the dividends that ACH pays to itself go back into the business, then it's not really an issue.  If the money is used for growth, then it benefits investors in the long run.

If she paid dividends to all 5M shares while she still holds 4.3M then it is a really big deal.
She isn't the first asset to do this, jef.
Logged
---
NXT Multipool! Mine Scrypt, SHA, Keccak or X11 for NXT! http://hashrate.org
http://hashrate.org/getting_started for port info!

cobaltskky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +226/-138
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2344
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #181 on: October 22, 2014, 03:02:37 pm »

I don't understand why a business that owns it's own shares shouldn't get the benefits of owning that share, assuming the funds stay within the business and don't leak to personal accounts.
Logged

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #182 on: October 22, 2014, 03:10:22 pm »

For non dilutable, yes which is what this asset is. For dilutable, it is not the correct method, but let's not get out the pitchforks for something that is correctly stated in the OP. The method used is the correct distribution method pf.

Seems like if the dividends that ACH pays to itself go back into the business, then it's not really an issue.  If the money is used for growth, then it benefits investors in the long run.

If she paid dividends to all 5M shares while she still holds 4.3M then it is a really big deal.
She isn't the first asset to do this, jef.

Its a big deal no matter who does it.
Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #183 on: October 22, 2014, 03:11:59 pm »

I don't understand why a business that owns it's own shares shouldn't get the benefits of owning that share, assuming the funds stay within the business and don't leak to personal accounts.

The problem is they don't "own the shares", they are unissued, and the 86% dilutes the real shareholders earnings by magnitudes.

edit 86%
Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

sv3n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +29/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #184 on: October 22, 2014, 03:15:05 pm »

I don't understand why a business that owns it's own shares shouldn't get the benefits of owning that share, assuming the funds stay within the business and don't leak to personal accounts.

The problem is they don't "own the shares", they are unissued, and the 86% dilutes the real shareholders earnings by magnitudes.

edit 86%
How? It's a non dilutable share.
Logged
NXT-QK6T-BTVP-N8SL-9ZLD4

cobaltskky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +226/-138
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2344
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #185 on: October 22, 2014, 03:16:57 pm »

They own that share of their business at the moment... They are selling that share of their business to the public. Until somebody buys that share, the share is theirs. At least, that's my understanding. Could you post a link on how shares in businesses work? I'd like to read up a bit on it so I can speak more intelligently to the topic. :)
Logged

pf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +161/-197
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1340
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #186 on: October 22, 2014, 03:28:16 pm »

I don't understand why a business that owns it's own shares shouldn't get the benefits of owning that share, assuming the funds stay within the business and don't leak to personal accounts.

The problem is they don't "own the shares", they are unissued, and the 86% dilutes the real shareholders earnings by magnitudes.

edit 86%
How? It's a non dilutable share.
All assets on the AE are non dilutable (as in we cannot issue any additional assets once the asset is initially issued).
I think you are a bit confused on what non dilutable shares are.
Logged
---
NXT Multipool! Mine Scrypt, SHA, Keccak or X11 for NXT! http://hashrate.org
http://hashrate.org/getting_started for port info!

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #187 on: October 22, 2014, 03:28:41 pm »

Youre missing the point here..

In a fair issuance the shareholder can hold their shares and earn dividends, but who for a second agrees that ACH is valued at 5Mnxt?? Thats $125k USD right now.
As I see it, heather PULLED the 4.3M from the offer, which effectively means the company exists in the ~700k shares,  giving it a value of $17,500 (still overpriced from the p/e but..)
Since the 4.3M are not in play, they should not IN GOOD FAITH be taking dividends.

This is a prime example of people not wanting to see the stink in front of their eyes. We all loved FunBot when he was paying, but things went wrong and people screamed for his head on a stick and demanded better practices.

HERE IS YOUR CHANCE before it fails. 
SHAREHOLDERS, demand proper practices on the ASSET YOU ALREADY OWN.
If she took 86% of your dividends why are you not concerned? Heads in the sand won't help.

Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

sv3n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +29/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #188 on: October 22, 2014, 03:36:44 pm »



I don't understand why a business that owns it's own shares shouldn't get the benefits of owning that share, assuming the funds stay within the business and don't leak to personal accounts.

The problem is they don't "own the shares", they are unissued, and the 86% dilutes the real shareholders earnings by magnitudes.

edit 86%
How? It's a non dilutable share.
All assets on the AE are non dilutable (as in we cannot issue any additional assets once the asset is initially issued).
I think you are a bit confused on what non dilutable shares are.

My understanding was that a non dilutable share provided a fixed percentage and a dilutable share provided a non fixed percentage as a function of sold shares. It was stated at the beginning that this was non dilutable, so each share would provide a fixed percentage of revenues.  It is up to the investor to determine if that fixed percentage was worth the cost and provided sufficient ROI.

I'm not pleased with this asset, but not for this reason. This was all clearly stated in the OP.
Logged
NXT-QK6T-BTVP-N8SL-9ZLD4

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #189 on: October 22, 2014, 03:37:35 pm »

I don't understand why a business that owns it's own shares shouldn't get the benefits of owning that share, assuming the funds stay within the business and don't leak to personal accounts.

The problem is they don't "own the shares", they are unissued, and the 86% dilutes the real shareholders earnings by magnitudes.

edit 86%
How? It's a non dilutable share.
All assets on the AE are non dilutable (as in we cannot issue any additional assets once the asset is initially issued).
I think you are a bit confused on what non dilutable shares are.

shes making it a manually dilutable share, by issuing 5M but only putting 700K into play. then when she wants the rest she can dump, effectively diluting your 100% down to 14%.


Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

sv3n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +29/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #190 on: October 22, 2014, 03:38:41 pm »

I don't understand why a business that owns it's own shares shouldn't get the benefits of owning that share, assuming the funds stay within the business and don't leak to personal accounts.

The problem is they don't "own the shares", they are unissued, and the 86% dilutes the real shareholders earnings by magnitudes.

edit 86%
How? It's a non dilutable share.
All assets on the AE are non dilutable (as in we cannot issue any additional assets once the asset is initially issued).
I think you are a bit confused on what non dilutable shares are.

shes making it a manually dilutable share, by issuing 5M but only putting 700K into play. then when she wants the rest she can dump, effectively diluting your 100% down to 14%.
Okay, it looks like the sell wall was taken down. This is an issue!
Logged
NXT-QK6T-BTVP-N8SL-9ZLD4

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #191 on: October 22, 2014, 03:39:22 pm »

thing about this asset is there is NO COMMON SENSE to the price

whats the asset worth? TOTAL BOTTOM LINE? tell me, and then we can figure out the share price from there.

I SAY its worth $20K MAX.

$20K USD is 869565.217 NXT. FOR THE WHOLE 5M shares
Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #192 on: October 22, 2014, 03:41:26 pm »

20K valuation is 0.17 per share for the WHOLE 5M shares.
Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

pf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +161/-197
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1340
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #193 on: October 22, 2014, 04:12:25 pm »

Dilutable shares mean that the asset issuer can issue additional shares at a later time.
Non dilutable shares mean that the asset issuer can only issue a single batch of shares.
I agree with jef, this is effectively making an AE offering (which is usually non dilutable) into a dilutable one (by her holding onto the majority of the shares to issue later).

Personally I feel that an asset issuer who holds onto a significant portion of the shares and then pays those shares out, is literally stealing from everyone who bought shares.
For every asset that I have ever released I purchased with my own personal NXT, my own stake in the asset. (and held it in my personal NXT account).

Logged
---
NXT Multipool! Mine Scrypt, SHA, Keccak or X11 for NXT! http://hashrate.org
http://hashrate.org/getting_started for port info!

sv3n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +29/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #194 on: October 22, 2014, 04:29:18 pm »



Dilutable shares mean that the asset issuer can issue additional shares at a later time.
Non dilutable shares mean that the asset issuer can only issue a single batch of shares.
I agree with jef, this is effectively making an AE offering (which is usually non dilutable) into a dilutable one (by her holding onto the majority of the shares to issue later).

Personally I feel that an asset issuer who holds onto a significant portion of the shares and then pays those shares out, is literally stealing from everyone who bought shares.
For every asset that I have ever released I purchased with my own personal NXT, my own stake in the asset. (and held it in my personal NXT account).

I did not see that the sell wall was taken down until today, which does make it dilutable for sure. That completely goes against the OP.

I don't have a problem with an asset issuer holding onto significant percent as long as that's stated and the terms are understood and followed. A company has every right to hold onto its profits proportional to their investment.  Before issuing this asset, they held 100% of revenue, so they are diluting their revenue by fund raising as a request for upfront capital.

Grated they are overvalued, which offsets the revenue dilution, but again, that was all available information in the OP.

Again, not trying to defend this asset, as they have now taken down the sell wall, making the payout diluted, and the questionable shifting of funds is no good either. I just want to point out what I see as the more relevant concerns.
Logged
NXT-QK6T-BTVP-N8SL-9ZLD4

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #195 on: October 22, 2014, 05:10:36 pm »

So shares are all floating, Heather takes her giant cut, and the market should react by CRASHING THE PRICE down to .17 or lower,

but it wont. because the AE is not very liquid, nor is it populated with informed investors.

Heather, there are a couple things you can do here.
1 Burn those 4M assets. Keep 300k for yourself as directors shares.
2 Do an inverted share split and give all holders 4x more shares, and then correct the market price
3 Give the outstanding shares to a 3rd party who will release them in tranches at pre approved asset valuation levels, ie Dividend pays X per month over 3 months

Shareholders and Community, its up to you to now hold these issuers to fair and proper terms or scammers will keep coming to prey on us.

Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

trollstocker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +19/-6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #196 on: October 22, 2014, 11:27:51 pm »

Let me give you a example..I own XNF in fact they were the ones that got me and many others interested in Nxt
http://xnfcoinwatch.com/2014/07/21/xnf-added-to-the-nxt-asset-exchange/

 . IMO it should of been a big success here a Coin/Asset currently backed 100% by real gold and trading at 7.00 per coin outside of the AE they currently have almost 6 million dollars in gold backing them..the first few days/weeks went fairly well and then certain posters came on and started posting about it.. XNF has been a very popular coin trading on ripple and that is where i bought it WAY back my first buy was 62.5 ripples to one XNF..it has been as high as 2200 and currently trades around 1300.they are a real company with 12 employees doing some cutting edge things in the crypto-world just trying to get some extra exposure on the AE..

http://www.nofiatcoin.com/

Now after some posters kept posting negative posts and a CERTAIN one came out and stated "i didn't understand XNF back in January and I still don't understand it today" and curiously that post must of been deleted because i can't find it now BUT remember reading it very well.


Shortly after that the volume all the sudden dried up to 0 and has hardly traded since..
I won't mention names but all you have to do is read through the threads and it will become clear.

I am just stating my opinion here and still believe if gone about the right way Nxt could be huge..Nxtty and supernet could change everything..But trying to discredit REAL companies from putting their assets on here to get more exposure isn't the way to move forward IMO

hey trollstocker

 I bought some XNF a few months back and I too watched the liquidity dry right up.
BUT i saw a few things in regards to that. I tried to sign up at the main XNF site and it was stupidly hard, id scans, etc. plus avianxf or whatever the one pumpers name was never succeeded in breaking into the community.
 It was pretty obvious to me that he was trying to drum up a market, and never made it work. This was the cause of no liquidity to me.
 SO now i have 8K assets that wont sell and no one wants to join me, and the main site is impenetrable. This is a combo we call "Barriers to Adoption"
 Plus we have no proof this is even a really traded asset. I mean, i see Apple and Facebook shares on the AE, and Ether, and so on and so on. What tells people that XNF is real?

 In the end i bought at 159 and sold at 180 when someone came in and bought up my position. I was never too worried about the stock, but not once after buying did I feel the issuer or the community was really behind it to grow.

That's odd jef because when I signed up it took me 10 minutes and i scanned my doc and downloaded to their site. Most KYC businesses are like that..I have made several transactions since and they went flawlessly

Everyone of the employees in the company can be either reached on twitter or by company email
they are a real company all you have to do is check them out..you are starting to concern me if this is the way you investigate companies with nxtinspect!.

On another note what is to stop anyone with a company on the AE to just pack up and vanish>? yes James included? at least we have real names with Altcoin Herald and XNF..





« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 11:32:04 pm by trollstocker »
Logged

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #197 on: October 22, 2014, 11:36:03 pm »

Let me give you a example..I own XNF in fact they were the ones that got me and many others interested in Nxt
http://xnfcoinwatch.com/2014/07/21/xnf-added-to-the-nxt-asset-exchange/

 . IMO it should of been a big success here a Coin/Asset currently backed 100% by real gold and trading at 7.00 per coin outside of the AE they currently have almost 6 million dollars in gold backing them..the first few days/weeks went fairly well and then certain posters came on and started posting about it.. XNF has been a very popular coin trading on ripple and that is where i bought it WAY back my first buy was 62.5 ripples to one XNF..it has been as high as 2200 and currently trades around 1300.they are a real company with 12 employees doing some cutting edge things in the crypto-world just trying to get some extra exposure on the AE..

http://www.nofiatcoin.com/

Now after some posters kept posting negative posts and a CERTAIN one came out and stated "i didn't understand XNF back in January and I still don't understand it today" and curiously that post must of been deleted because i can't find it now BUT remember reading it very well.


Shortly after that the volume all the sudden dried up to 0 and has hardly traded since..
I won't mention names but all you have to do is read through the threads and it will become clear.

I am just stating my opinion here and still believe if gone about the right way Nxt could be huge..Nxtty and supernet could change everything..But trying to discredit REAL companies from putting their assets on here to get more exposure isn't the way to move forward IMO

hey trollstocker

 I bought some XNF a few months back and I too watched the liquidity dry right up.
BUT i saw a few things in regards to that. I tried to sign up at the main XNF site and it was stupidly hard, id scans, etc. plus avianxf or whatever the one pumpers name was never succeeded in breaking into the community.
 It was pretty obvious to me that he was trying to drum up a market, and never made it work. This was the cause of no liquidity to me.
 SO now i have 8K assets that wont sell and no one wants to join me, and the main site is impenetrable. This is a combo we call "Barriers to Adoption"
 Plus we have no proof this is even a really traded asset. I mean, i see Apple and Facebook shares on the AE, and Ether, and so on and so on. What tells people that XNF is real?

 In the end i bought at 159 and sold at 180 when someone came in and bought up my position. I was never too worried about the stock, but not once after buying did I feel the issuer or the community was really behind it to grow.

That's odd jef because when I signed up it took me 10 minutes and i scanned my doc and downloaded to their site. Most KYC businesses are like that..I have made several transactions since and they went flawlessly

Everyone of the employees in the company can be either reached on twitter or by company email
they are a real company all you have to do is check them out..you are starting to concern me if this is the way you investigate companies with nxtinspect!.

On another note what is to stop anyone with a company on the AE to just pack up and vanish>? yes James included? at least we have real names with Altcoin Herald and XNF..
I will admit I turned away at first sign of kyc. I didn't know who they were and didn't feel like providing them with information right away.
Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

jefdiesel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-77
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1275
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #198 on: October 24, 2014, 07:25:18 am »

Hey heather

 i've been doing some inspecting and I have seen some weird stuff. Maybe you can explain, and also maybe the other people in this thread can help?

 http://www.nxtreporting.com/?ac=NXT-V9ND-E489-AXUL-5HH5Q is your main account. holds 4.12M shares.
 From that account there are outgoing transactions totally 737584NXT

 Those transactions go mostly to two accounts.
NXT-H323-AXWV-SKFZ-DSVB2
 which appears to be your Bter deposit address. I just sent 1.23456789NXT to it, we'll see where it goes. I suspect it will go to NXT-LVKY-Q9KY-5Q2Z-AV9JA, which is labeled as Bterhot but maybe the amount is too low.
 NXT-L7EX-CN4P-FFXB-72VMP
 which appears to be your mixing account. if anyone looks here http://www.nxtreporting.com/?a=NXT-L7EX-CN4P-FFXB-72VMP&c=USD you can see all kinds of pass through payments a short while after, but not the exact same, so its not a simple deposit bot.
Then these funds from 72VMP go to NXT-FZX8-TG5C-65HL-59J5VNXT-XBSR-PC7M-N2P5-72YR7,  and NXT-TC9P-MUDA-BMSZ-6Q5XT along with that same Bter deposit address.

Here is the wierd part.
NXT-FZX8-TG5C-65HL-59J5V  http://www.nxtreporting.com/?a=NXT-FZX8-TG5C-65HL-59J5V&c=USD has taken the 145k nxt sent to it from 5HH5Q and 72VMP and bought 142K shares in ACH.

Same with NXT-XBSR-PC7M-N2P5-72YR7 http://www.nxtreporting.com/?a=NXT-XBSR-PC7M-N2P5-72YR7&c=USD , received a lot of NXT from 5HH5Q and 72VMP and bought 147'414 shares in ACH.

Theres a few stray ones that go to NXT-TC9P-MUDA-BMSZ-6Q5XT but it only has bought 890 shares, so it almost doesnt matter at this point.
 http://www.nxtreporting.com/?a=NXT-TC9P-MUDA-BMSZ-6Q5XT&c=USD

TLDR AND confusing? Did you sent NXT payments to a mixer and onto otherwise empty accounts to purchase 300,000 shares in your asset?
It sure looks this way.

I made a spread sheet if it helps people see.   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1whEylR0buEZ72M8N0quPjQ5Cu_7rhWXzPcy1UgUPvaY/edit#gid=0
Please can we get some comments here?

edited for BOLD
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 07:27:50 am by jefdiesel »
Logged
Member of D.O.R.C.S., creators of Lyth - An Emergent Trading Game | Asset ID: 2318361924203311027

printshop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +123/-317
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1004
    • View Profile
Re: [ANN] [ACH] Altcoin Herald Now Available As An Asset
« Reply #199 on: October 24, 2014, 09:10:01 am »

20K valuation is 0.17 per share for the WHOLE 5M shares.

Based on what she says she earns sure. Maybe $25,000 tops, but, now I am finding it difficult to trust sales figures too.
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 21  All
 

elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
assembly
assembly