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Asset exchange naming issue
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Author Topic: Asset exchange naming issue  (Read 12126 times)

Sebastien256

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Asset exchange naming issue
« on: March 22, 2014, 03:53:37 pm »

I'll try to move the conversation on AE exchange naming issue here. HEre one of my last post on BTCtalk.

Finally, the idea of unique alias tied to asset name is a bad idea. It clear that this solution is problematic, this problematic is the same as the unique asset name.
The only method that will be working is to allow free registration  of non-unique asset full name (prefix+suffix). The user should not be taken as dumb. Let the user find out what is the good asset. At first it will be difficult to find the good one, but eventually, when we can sort the asset by volume, it will be easy to find which asset are good and the one that are not good. Volume is like massive positive Vote.

Anyway, if wesley want to do his client like this. It is his choice in some sense. If this solution is not working well, another client will find another solution or he will adapt his client. As long as in the Nxt core, asset name are non-unique, Nxt is strong I think.
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 04:37:26 pm »

Anyway, if wesley want to do his client like this. It is his choice in some sense. If this solution is not working well, another client will find another solution or he will adapt his client. As long as in the Nxt core, asset name are non-unique, Nxt is strong I think.

I think wesley is smart enough to recognize the importance of using the 'best' solution decided by the community after some discussing.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 04:43:42 pm »

Anyway, if wesley want to do his client like this. It is his choice in some sense. If this solution is not working well, another client will find another solution or he will adapt his client. As long as in the Nxt core, asset name are non-unique, Nxt is strong I think.

I think wesley is smart enough to recognize the importance of using the 'best' solution decided by the community after some discussing.

I should have express myself better, I did not meant to send a message to wesley. You could replace wesley by someone's client, it could be dgex client for instance. It just that wesley client is in the talk pretty much these days. My comment was meant to be general.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 04:46:13 pm by Sebastien256 »
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wesley

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 04:51:14 pm »

I'll do whatever the community decides on. The unique alias idea was meant to create discussion about this topic.
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cc001

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 05:22:29 pm »

I'm with Sebastien, CIYAM and Anons proposal
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rdanneskjoldr

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 05:43:27 pm »

i Still havent made my mind.I think in the end,almost any option would be viable,although everyone seems to point that the opposite to their opinion is a disaster.
I wish all this discussion ends up picking the best option  8)
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alxx77

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 06:19:06 pm »

So, again I must repeat myself: is goal of AE to educate dumb users or to do its job...? :P

If user does not know what is he doing, unique asset names won't help; if he does know, non-unique asset names won't be a problem.

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Mistafreeze

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 12:21:29 am »

So, again I must repeat myself: is goal of AE to educate dumb users or to do its job...? :P

If user does not know what is he doing, unique asset names won't help; if he does know, non-unique asset names won't be a problem.

Basically what I posted in the monster thread. The people that aren't going to do their research are the same people that will turn over their bank account to a stranger when they email them saying that they need help to save their fortune, and if they just supply their bank number, they'll get a hefty portion of it.

I know it sounds crass, but assets names aren't going to help the stupid or the lazy, so we shouldn't expend a whole lot of energy trying to save them. Do enough to make sure AE isn't the wild west, and call it good.
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forkedchain

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2014, 02:05:20 am »

As having unique names WILL make it easier for scammers to scam, Its quite obvious that anyone wanting unique asset names must only want ability to squat them if they are willing to force the unique issue that will let so many users get scammed.

When users see multiple asset names for "Microsoft" they will naturally be inclined to do their due diligence.  If you wanna-be-squatters get your way with unique asset names, then some scammer who is squatting "Microsoft" is more easily able to scam people out of ther NXT.

So you people arguing for unique asset names, or any kind of unique ID/tag/etc for assets are, for all intents and purpose, for all I am concerned, are considered not only squatters but also SCAMMERS since you apparently want the ability to squat names for the purpose of selling them later and scamming
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CIYAM

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2014, 02:33:21 am »

So you people arguing for unique asset names, or any kind of unique ID/tag/etc for assets are, for all intents and purpose, for all I am concerned, are considered not only squatters but also SCAMMERS since you apparently want the ability to squat names for the purpose of selling them later and scamming

Exactly - which is what made me wonder why there are some *so keen on trying to overturn the decision made by JL* (which was made to reduce the *incentive* to scam).

BTW it's not that I am accusing Wesley of any such nefarious purpose - I know all he wants to do is be able to provide a "clean UI" - I'd also point out to Wesley that even a "list of all Assets" is really not going to be practical. You don't get such lists on any decent stock exchange because typically the numbers of such Assets are at least in the tens of thousands.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 02:36:55 am by CIYAM »
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DrearyUrbanite

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2014, 03:44:00 pm »

I cannot see a good reason for unique names other than squatting on them for profit, something I personally disagree with.
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forkedchain

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2014, 04:47:32 pm »

I cannot see a good reason for unique names other than squatting on them for profit, something I personally disagree with.

exactly, so the people who need unique names, if they want it like that, really need to give us the reasons.  Of course the issue is open for discussion, but they havent given any discussion as to why.
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nyrsta

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2014, 05:52:49 pm »

I haven't been active in any discussion before, more have been a lurker so far, anyway.

With the asset exchange discussion I want to give my opinion though...

I fully support non unique asset names, connected with an automatically assigned unique ID.

In default assets should not be visibile in the asset exchange of the client, but should be able to be added by a link provided from a trusted source(issuer website) or manually searched inside the software.
(Or for example an external website with peoples ratings and the possibily to link/copy the asset ID to the client)

You have to know after a few months probalby 100 or 1000's of asset  will be added in the exchange and if they are all visible to be searched it will gives the look and feeling of SPAM. And well seeing like 30 ciyam assets in the testnet exchange doesnt really gives a nice look right? it's SPAM

By using the above method you avoid confusion, increase the professional look and feel of software, stays more simple and people will be less scammed if they do there basic research.


In stock trading software we also don't see also all stocks available but we search them by their name and add them into a favourite list.
This rest is non visible.





 
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CIYAM

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2014, 06:01:25 pm »

In stock trading software we also don't see also all stocks available but we search them by their name and add them into a favourite list.
This rest is non visible.

A very good point that I was also trying to make.
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2014, 06:33:47 pm »

So the default in wesleyhs client could be a search field and not a list for a good user experience?!
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CIYAM

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2014, 06:37:43 pm »

So the default in wesleyhs client could be a search field and not a list for a good user experience?!

You want the UI to do the "right thing" as much as it can of course.
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nyrsta

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2014, 06:45:51 pm »

So the default in wesleyhs client could be a search field and not a list for a good user experience?!

You want the UI to do the "right thing" as much as it can of course.
A visible list of 10000 assets isn't really good user experience in my opinion... the then you have the quantity of non unique assets names.
Most people will only trade in 10 to 30 assets in the same time ever. In the search field you might also give information how many times the asset has been added already, this is already some kind of rating... (dont know if technially possible and allowed on privacy reasons)

Anyway issuers of assets will advertise there asset anyway on there website... they can provide the link with the right ID for the asset for you to add (or search in field)
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gs02xzz

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2014, 01:41:22 am »

I'm with Sebastien, CIYAM and Anons proposal

+1. Think about how it would be like if someone squatted the names of CFB and JL on this forum in the beginning.
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abctc

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2014, 09:15:35 am »

I fully support non unique asset names, connected with an automatically assigned unique ID.  ...
- you just propose unique asset name (name+ID), and  this is basically what wesleyh made in his client - unique suffix, assigned to non-unique asset.

This "name+ID" is work around the non-uniq names problem:

Quote from: pandaisftw
...
Lastly, these unique suffixes, even if they may be fake, are in *human readable* format.
... which one is easier to tell is a scam: 123123312333 vs 123123123333 or Microsoft123 vs Microsoft? In the first case, someone might not even realize that something is wrong, and think that they have "checked the source" sufficiently and trust it. In the second case, it is 100% clear that there are two Microsofts. The user will then do his DD and figure out Microsoft123 is the real deal, and rename it to Microsoft on his trust list and ignore all others.
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Asset exchange naming issue
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2014, 09:21:35 am »

Didn't wesleyh made it "Nonunique-Assetname.Unique-Alias"? I'm not up to date on this...

Unique Aliases are read differently from a human than unique IDs. By using an automatically assigned unique ID, the trader sees "schmoggles.23874628476" and thinks "i have to compare these numbers". But if it is "schmoggles.MICROSOFT" or "schmoggles.MlCROSOFT", he will just read "ah, microsoft. good" and trades.

Is "schmoggles.23874628476" not a good solution?

What is the state of the discussion on this?
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