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Author Topic: Total market capitalisation of all assets  (Read 4495 times)

mthcl

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Total market capitalisation of all assets
« on: June 06, 2014, 08:29:14 pm »

Is it possible to see it somewhere?  It would be interesting to know the total size of the Nxt economy. Maybe, we surpassed the LTC already?..
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mf-tzo

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2014, 08:31:40 pm »

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kodtycoon

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2014, 08:33:47 pm »

https://coinmarketcap.com/
he means the market cap of all assets combined. not the market cap of nxt!
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cc001

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2014, 08:35:48 pm »

Is it possible to see it somewhere?  It would be interesting to know the total size of the Nxt economy. Maybe, we surpassed the LTC already?..

good idea, maybe we can integrate it into NxtReporting.com we'll have a look at it
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 08:45:31 pm by cc001 »
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TimmyD

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2014, 08:48:23 pm »

that would be super cool
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mf-tzo

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2014, 08:52:44 pm »

Quote
he means the market cap of all assets combined. not the market cap of nxt!

lol.. I thought that it was to obvious for someone to ask about coinmarketcap. Even I know coinmarketcap...
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joefox

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2014, 12:53:12 am »

I'm interested in this for a different reason. 

Market cap will also show how much Nxt is "bound up" in each asset, and I suspect this information will show that there's VERY little liquidity on Nxt AE.

The pattern for EVERY asset issued (thus far) is a drop in value.  There simply aren't any buyers available to drive prices up, and (I suspect) not very much Nxt available to buyers, meaning people who hold assets have very few people to sell to.  Unless asset-to-asset trading is enabled soon, this will be the picture for the foreseeable future. 

I'm just musing, but I'll bet I'm right.  Maybe wiser finance-types can weigh in.  Here's a relevant Forbes article about the Maidsafe mess, which resulted from running their funding campaign on Mastercoin.
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kodtycoon

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2014, 01:13:17 am »

I'm interested in this for a different reason. 

Market cap will also show how much Nxt is "bound up" in each asset, and I suspect this information will show that there's VERY little liquidity on Nxt AE.

The pattern for EVERY asset issued (thus far) is a drop in value.  There simply aren't any buyers available to drive prices up, and (I suspect) not very much Nxt available to buyers, meaning people who hold assets have very few people to sell to.  Unless asset-to-asset trading is enabled soon, this will be the picture for the foreseeable future. 

I'm just musing, but I'll bet I'm right.  Maybe wiser finance-types can weigh in.  Here's a relevant Forbes article about the Maidsafe mess, which resulted from running their funding campaign on Mastercoin.

that makes allot of sense! and i think we should be able to do asset-asset trades.. but i suspect there may be lower volume in those(unless you mean assets like silver or btc or usd(if implemented))

perhaps monetary system will solve this issue no?

i followed that allot.. i was very interested in maidsafe but the way the ipo was run and then little to no support shown to those who lost out big time was very disappointing.
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anon136

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2014, 01:49:10 am »

it gets a little distorted by my asset. my silver tokens have like 1000 times world gdp worth of capitalization :P
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Tosch110

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 11:01:03 pm »

it gets a little distorted by my asset. my silver tokens have like 1000 times world gdp worth of capitalization :P

would be great if they were all backed up by silver :D

superresistant

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2014, 11:29:22 am »

Is it possible to see it somewhere?  It would be interesting to know the total size of the Nxt economy. Maybe, we surpassed the LTC already?..
good idea, maybe we can integrate it into NxtReporting.com we'll have a look at it

That's a great idea.

TimmyD

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2014, 11:35:41 am »

Be awesome if we have surpassed btc market cap lmao
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cc001

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2014, 11:29:47 pm »

Check out NxtReporting.com, it got a BIG UPDATE!
* Asset Market Capitalisation (Total market cap over all assets will be added in the next days)
* Asset Shareholder List
* Many other improvements
Check this post for more details https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=2175.msg42523#msg42523
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mczarnek

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2014, 11:56:22 pm »

I'm interested in this for a different reason. 

Market cap will also show how much Nxt is "bound up" in each asset, and I suspect this information will show that there's VERY little liquidity on Nxt AE.

The pattern for EVERY asset issued (thus far) is a drop in value.  There simply aren't any buyers available to drive prices up, and (I suspect) not very much Nxt available to buyers, meaning people who hold assets have very few people to sell to.  Unless asset-to-asset trading is enabled soon, this will be the picture for the foreseeable future. 

I'm just musing, but I'll bet I'm right.  Maybe wiser finance-types can weigh in.  Here's a relevant Forbes article about the Maidsafe mess, which resulted from running their funding campaign on Mastercoin.

The important point though is that Nxt does have a lot of liqudity compared to Mastercoin when it comes to get money into or out of Mastercoin/Nxt..  increased liquidity on this level should lead to increased liquidity when it comes to the assets, right?  If it's hard to even just buy Mastercoin, then why would I use it for buying assets?

Anyway we'll get there, more growth and users needed.

That would be a really interesting number/graph though...
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jl777

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2014, 12:08:03 am »

cross posting as this is highly relevant:

I might be wrong on the exact details as these are guesstimates, but what will happen is pretty clear to me. A NXT asset value will go down if it is an asset that operates outside of NXT, but a NXT asset that is 100% NXT based will scale with NXT, in fact it will act as leveraged NXT. I dont want to get into a debate over this point, but if you think about a NXT business that performs a service and gets paid in NXT, I hope you can see conceptually that the more NXT is worth the more profits that business will generate. Take NXTventure as an example. It invests NXT in operating assets, if NXT is worth a dime, it can invest in small companies. If NXT is worth $10 it can invest in companies 100 times bigger. The profit margins of NXTventure is pretty similar regardless of the value of NXT. So this is one example of a pure play NXT asset. Now as an operating business, NXTventure will be gaining more and more retained earnings and this will allow it to do more and more investments. This is why pure play NXT businesses are leveraged NXT. Assuming the business is small to begin with and it can grow,then clearly it is gaining more than NXT if its profits are not hurt by NXT rising in value.

The above is just one example. You might not believe me, but I have many such operating assets that will behave as leveraged NXT. So if we can take the above as a given, the next part will make sense.

Let us assume that NXT based business will trade at something like a PE of 10. This is super conservative so hopefully there isnt much debate. In any case you can tweak the exact numbers, that only changes when we hit the critical point.
So, how can we possibly get past assets being worth 1 billion NXT? Actually it is reversed, how can we not exceed 1 billion NXT!
NXTventure issued a dividend for May that was worth 3.4 million NXT. Let say for the year it will generate total dividends of 25 million NXT. Well, at a PE of 10, NXTventure alone is worth 250 million NXT. I hope you can see my main point, the market cap of assets has little relation to the total amount of NXT that exists.

So, now going past 1 billion NXT is not hard, but inevitable.

With me so far? Ok, assets tend to trade. Maybe not so much now, but assuming an active community some percentage of the overall assets will trade every day. Let us assume 1% just to make the math easy. so NXTventure will trade 2.5 million NXT per day in the above scenario. No problem you say, there is 1 billion NXT. Well, is there really that much that is liquid and active? The real number is closer to 100 million NXT and it might even be smaller.

Lets use 100 million NXT as the active NXT. you say that NXT can be spend over and over in a day, up to 1000 times, but that is theoretical max velocity. In practice, most people put in orders a bit away from the market. I am assuming that on average NXT is locked up for an hour for each trade. This is probably very optimistic as a lot of orders just sit there for days and days, but using the 1 hour and 100 million liquid NXT and assuming 100% of all this trades every hour 24 hours per day,well that seems pretty unrealistic. Have to discount it so that lets say 10% of it circulates like crazy, so we now have 240 million NXT per day of asset trades that is the absolute limit that can be handled.

I did make a mistake, the magic number with the above assumptions is 24 billion NXT worth of assets. At this point there is exactly enough NXT to allow the daily trading. Now lets double the market cap of the assets. you say that at this point asset prices will deflate to compensate,but remember the NXT venture example? It really cant unless PE will go from 10 to 5, but that violates our assumptions.
Also, there will be assets like silver which have a reference value. When we run out of NXT to conduct trading, NXT will be forced to go up in value and any NXT asset that isnt pure NXT will deflate in price, but the NXT based assets will be like rocks that wont deflate and thus effectively sucks the available liquid NXT way from the deflatable assets.

So what will happen is that NXT price will be forced up. Dramatically up, that is the only alternative to people just stopping their trading. But when there is big volatility, trade volumes go up. See, The Anomaly.

Now does it matter if the assets are priced in NXT or BTC or goat's milk? Nope! What matters is the total asset market cap, the daily amount traded and the velocity of NXT.

So the more asset values inside NXT, the faster we reach The Anomaly and leap past BTC in a day

James
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msunxter

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2014, 03:31:33 pm »

This is by far the most enlightening post about the AE to date. My mind is simply blown and it will probably take me a couple days to process and understand everything. But it sounds like once we hit critical mass NXT will become a freight train on a downhill track. Good luck stopping it.
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jl777

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2014, 05:02:01 pm »

This is by far the most enlightening post about the AE to date. My mind is simply blown and it will probably take me a couple days to process and understand everything. But it sounds like once we hit critical mass NXT will become a freight train on a downhill track. Good luck stopping it.
The train has already left the station :)
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benjyz

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Re: Total market capitalisation of all assets
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2014, 10:11:05 am »

cross posting as this is highly relevant:

I might be wrong on the exact details as these are guesstimates, but what will happen is pretty clear to me. A NXT asset value will go down if it is an asset that operates outside of NXT, but a NXT asset that is 100% NXT based will scale with NXT, in fact it will act as leveraged NXT.

profit of any company = profit in currency * exchange rate of currency. can go both ways, and companies spend a lot of time hedging risk, which is impossible with crypto at the moment.
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