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NEM goes Nxt Exchange  
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Author Topic: NEM goes Nxt Exchange  (Read 13740 times)

Stadtfeger

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2014, 12:18:53 pm »

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=616467.msg6928074#msg6928074
Quote from: utopianfuture
Dear NEM stakeholder community,

I apologize for making some of you disappointed but I decide to hold off the asset exchange listing for at least a couple of days until more information about NEM and its governance structure could be provided.

The reason for that is because I realized involving new investors is a qualitative change in NEM organizational structure and that needs to be handed with more transparency and disclosure. So far NEM has been conceptualized as a voluntary association in which stakeholders are participants and contributors to the formation of a new decentralized movement. In that conceptualization, I am comfortable in handling participant complaints with a simple refund suggestion. In that conceptualization, no one loses when he doesn't like what the development team is doing and can voluntarily withdraw. We as a team could also have the right to refuse certain participants who are deem not beneficial (sockpuppets for example). This phase has been dubbed "a call for participation" (it is not an IPO sorry) for these rationales.

This phase was over when the final stakeholder was published. No more stakeholders will be added. Now we are going to transition to a new phase in which investors can come in via  sales from the current stakeholders and public auction. I think they deserve to know more what future governance of the system will look like. So before investors are welcomed in, I would like to publish at least a preliminary draft of the Development Contract to the agreement of all current stakeholders. So the time during the asset exchange listing postponement will be used for that process. The process will include: the development team publishing a preliminary draft of the Development Contract; current stakeholders commenting and criticizing the Development Contract; majority of current stakeholders agreeing on the Development Contract and the rest requesting a refund and leave.

While I believe at this point the shares of the current stakeholders are theirs to control and technically asset listing is for the current stakeholder selling a part of his shares. However, we as a team cannot afford officiating the sale without performing our obligation in a full disclosure of what we plan to do with the development shares and development reserves. Hence, the postponement of the listing. I have been preparing materials for the Development Contract for a while and will be able to publish a preliminary draft very soon.

UtopianFuture       

sorry, not normal. somehow he makes himself so untrustworthy.
Please close this here.
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2014, 12:25:33 pm »

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=616467.msg6928074#msg6928074

I still hope that he won't be selling NEM shares at all. A guy with name "UtopianFuture" is supposed to think about anything but not money. This history about listing on Nxt AE doesn't look good...
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gvans

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2014, 03:05:20 pm »

To be ho honest, I don't see any problem here. The AE stakes are not new stakes to be sold but the stakes of current stakeholders who may sell them if they wish. Should utopian take another 48 hours to deliver more information of the whole project for the new investors to judge their investment so be it.

just my two nxt, NO WAIT, two nem  8)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 03:08:29 pm by gvans »
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UtopianFuture

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2014, 03:14:01 pm »

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=616467.msg6928074#msg6928074

I still hope that he won't be selling NEM shares at all. A guy with name "UtopianFuture" is supposed to think about anything but not money. This history about listing on Nxt AE doesn't look good...

NEM public auction is coming soon https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg6821199#msg6821199 and it is how we sell NEM shares. Listing on Nxt AE is strictly from current stakeholder demand.

About the name, Utopianfuture will fade from the scene pretty soon. It is up the the community to take the next step.
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Daedelus

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2014, 03:50:27 pm »

I haven't really kept up with NEM.

I'm told it is new code (and presumably new form of POS) but is there a public client out there? And has anyone looked at the code?

(I'm getting deja vu, I went over this with Qora recently too  ::) )


What I am trying to ask, I suppose, is: is NEM more than just a good feeling people have in their gut?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 03:52:20 pm by Daedelus »
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2014, 04:40:39 pm »

About the name, Utopianfuture will fade from the scene pretty soon. It is up the the community to take the next step.

A-la Satoshi and BCNext? I like that.  :)
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Eadeqa

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2014, 06:33:17 pm »

I haven't really kept up with NEM.

I'm told it is new code (and presumably new form of POS) but is there a public client out there? And has anyone looked at the code?

There is  nothing there yet,  but I think the main credibility comes from development team -- all of whom were known and had history in Nxt community   (Jaguar0625, BloodyRookie, gimre, etc)



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Daedelus

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2014, 06:38:26 pm »

I wondered where BloodyRookie had gone  :D :D The other two might be before my time
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Eadeqa

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2014, 06:47:11 pm »

I wondered where BloodyRookie had gone  :D :D The other two might be before my time

No they weren't. They were all active in nxt community for example

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404321.0
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Daedelus

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2014, 06:56:24 pm »

I wondered where BloodyRookie had gone  :D :D The other two might be before my time

No they weren't. They were all active in nxt community for example

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404321.0

At that time I was a hardcore 'megathread' only guy, it is all I could keep up with. Should I be flattered you know when my 'my time' is?  :D :D :D I'm not a Sept/Nov guy, a tad later ;D
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swartzfeger

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2014, 04:21:53 pm »

What I am trying to ask, I suppose, is: is NEM more than just a good feeling people have in their gut?

As a stakeholder, I'm ambivalent.

They have a 400 page megathread with no client, no logo, and a promise of Proof of Importance and a handful nebulous, unannounced 2.0 features. There's a frequent refrain of "great community!" which, as a big fan of Nxt, I find mildly grating. Nxt has a great community; NEM has a spreadsheet of stakeholders.

NEM appeals to people (me included) that probably feel disenfranchised to some degree... we didn't get in on BTC or LTC when it was pocket change. We don't have monster ASICs or rigs to jump in on a coin launch and pump/dump. We mostly can't code in Java/C#/whatever with hopes of grabbing a nice developer slice/stake. NEM promises, and it seems reasonable, that normal folks will have a chance to get in on the ground floor and allow them to participate in something that can grow, long term (or even explode). For that, I think UtopianFuture has done a great job, and I really applaud him for his egalitarian approach.

Lunacy creeps in when folks stay put in one thread and don't get enough sunlight and oxygen. Real, unmitigated moon bat stuff like NEM is going to launch with a market cap matching NXT. I don't think many NEM folk get out and see the effort the Nxt crowd put in. Simply grabbing a free stake and bleating "great community!" doesn't grant a coin a #5 spot. Busting your ass and developing services on top of a solid core does that (I'm looking at you, jl777 and CIYAM!)

NEM could have a mini Aurora/Darkcoin effect thanks to the AE... when NEM gets listed, you might get some of panic buys happening with a lot of action. At some point, NEM is going to have to come back down to earth when people ask "what's the differentiator?"

73 people or 3000, it's inconsequential. Fair distribution isn't a feature. The pareto principle will always kick in.

PoI and what else? Who knows. Gimre, jaguar, Utopian, a few others. Time will tell.

Bottom line... I have faith that NEM will launch a solid client, and there will be a core of enthusiastic supporters that will propel it forward and make it a success. I think it's going to be a much slower haul than most of the "great community!" folks think.

I remember the first corporate meeting I attended and it was this middle management meeting that just droned, and droned and DRONED incessantly. My Director of Marketing stood up and said "you know, Rome wasn't built on middle management meetings, it was built on slitting throats." He grabbed his team and we left, the rest of the room with their jaws on the floor. It was rude, it was abrupt, and it was fucking GREAT.

Can NEM slit throats? Wishes and daydreams won't make it happen. The NEM crowd will have to get their hands bloody. I don't see many stepping up except for the usual 'let's get a SWARM started' type thing. It's hard to build services without a client, so as much as I kind of wail unfairly on the NEM crowd, their hands are tied. They can't build services on top of a google spreadsheet.

We'll know more in a month. Client launch, bloody hands... should be fun.  ;D
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gck

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2014, 05:59:30 pm »

Probably one of the better write ups I've seen on NEM's position.  I think most people want to believe that it will explode and hope they get in on what they missed with Bitcoin, Litecoin, and NXT.  I really don't expect it to go very high in the beginning...UNLESS it has ALL features perfect at launch and word spreads.  Even then...most of what little I've seen looks like NXT.  POI being the main exceptional difference.
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swartzfeger

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2014, 05:38:09 am »

POI being the main exceptional difference.


Just caught up on the NEM thread, and it doesn't look like they'll have a whitepaper until beta (August). I'm hoping Gimre and crew will lay out PoI principles and specifics in a post once the alpha is launched.
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UtopianFuture

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2014, 12:17:37 pm »

@swartzfeger: nice reading. I don't think NEM should be worth too much at the moment. I suspect owning NEM will test the patience threshold of many NEM stakeholders. 
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swartzfeger

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2014, 10:58:00 pm »

@swartzfeger: nice reading. I don't think NEM should be worth too much at the moment. I suspect owning NEM will test the patience threshold of many NEM stakeholders.


Yes. Nxt tested the patience of many; so will NEM. But there will be stakeholders that will remain true to the spirit of participation and help it sustain a long, slow, steady growth.
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kodtycoon

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2014, 11:04:00 pm »

@swartzfeger: nice reading. I don't think NEM should be worth too much at the moment. I suspect owning NEM will test the patience threshold of many NEM stakeholders.


Yes. Nxt tested the patience of many; so will NEM. But there will be stakeholders that will remain true to the spirit of participation and help it sustain a long, slow, steady growth.

the highest bid is like 28,000 nxt for .4 of a stake.. so 60k nxt per stake or something.. that couldnt be a realistic value? 9.something million cap? if trading starts and stays at those levels.. after nem alpha, nxt might be at risk of being taken over on coinmarketcap by a coin that hasnt launched! :L
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swartzfeger

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2014, 11:10:27 pm »

@swartzfeger: nice reading. I don't think NEM should be worth too much at the moment. I suspect owning NEM will test the patience threshold of many NEM stakeholders.

Yes. Nxt tested the patience of many; so will NEM. But there will be stakeholders that will remain true to the spirit of participation and help it sustain a long, slow, steady growth.

the highest bid is like 28,000 nxt for .4 of a stake.. so 60k nxt per stake or something.. that couldnt be a realistic value? 9.something million cap? if trading starts and stays at those levels.. after nem alpha, nxt might be at risk of being taken over on coinmarketcap by a coin that hasnt launched! :L

Forrest, you single-handedly drive the enthusiasm/participation in the NEM thread, so I'm not surprised you're optimistic.

If 5% of the stakeholders -- 150 people -- had your enthusiasm, NEM would be unstoppable. If you don't have an official position within NEM, they should hire you STAT!  ;D

edit: for those who don't know, Forrest is kodtycoon over at the other forum (and overall great guy).
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 11:12:10 pm by swartzfeger »
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kodtycoon

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2014, 11:18:45 pm »

@swartzfeger: nice reading. I don't think NEM should be worth too much at the moment. I suspect owning NEM will test the patience threshold of many NEM stakeholders.

Yes. Nxt tested the patience of many; so will NEM. But there will be stakeholders that will remain true to the spirit of participation and help it sustain a long, slow, steady growth.

the highest bid is like 28,000 nxt for .4 of a stake.. so 60k nxt per stake or something.. that couldnt be a realistic value? 9.something million cap? if trading starts and stays at those levels.. after nem alpha, nxt might be at risk of being taken over on coinmarketcap by a coin that hasnt launched! :L

Forrest, you single-handedly drive the enthusiasm/participation in the NEM thread, so I'm not surprised you're optimistic.

If 5% of the stakeholders -- 150 people -- had your enthusiasm, NEM would be unstoppable. If you don't have an official position within NEM, they should hire you STAT!  ;D

hahaha thanks.. mind telling the devs that? :L

na the main devs do far more then me! im only trying to help my investment. cant do much here cos you guys are all so so much more qualified than i. i have to admit though, the whole nxt AE thing has made the nem threads explode.. also brought allot of attention to nxt seeing as nxt is mentioned in every second comment for the last 2-3 weeks on every thread and every second tweet from nem people! lol talk about gorilla marketing..

i think if anything.. these high bids have really drove it home that these stakes.. are actually worth allot! the higher the bids go pre-alpha the harder and longer people will hold and those who sell will sell less causing a positive feed back loop.. hopefully lol on the other hand it could be just a handful of guys putting high bids only to pull them prior to launch and disappoint everyone, while all along giggling away behind their keyboards ha
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swartzfeger

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2014, 11:29:26 pm »

na the main devs do far more then me! im only trying to help my investment. cant do much here cos you guys are all so so much more qualified than i. i have to admit though, the whole nxt AE thing has made the nem threads explode.. also brought allot of attention to nxt seeing as nxt is mentioned in every second comment for the last 2-3 weeks on every thread and every second tweet from nem people! lol talk about gorilla marketing..

That's the beauty of decentralization. We don't have to wait for someone to tell us what to do. We see a need, and we do it. And yet, most of us involved in cryptos don't get involved.

Your participation hasn't gone unnoticed, and hopefully the devs see it, too. Enthusiasm is infectious, and you definitely have the chops to steer a small team and do great things. There are dedicated marketing teams, and then there are guys like you that can be 'evangelists' and move with speed. Like Guy Kawasaki did for Apple and the Mac back in the 90s.
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swartzfeger

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Re: NEM goes Nxt Exchange
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2014, 11:44:11 pm »

I tell ya what, Forrest -- with your permission, I'd like to unofficially nominate you as NEM<->Nxt Liaison over in the main NEM thread. You're an investor in both ecosystems and know them well, you're enthusiastic and driven. I will pledge 10% of my stake to give to you to perform that role, and see if a minimum of 9 others will do so, too (for a total of 1 complete NEM stake). If we can do that, maybe UP could figure out a quick and painless way of giving the 10 of us a .9 stake while giving you an extra full stake.

You would be autonomous, acting as an ambassador for NEM and maintaining relationships between both communities.

What do you think?
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