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Author Topic: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.  (Read 27570 times)

wesley

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2014, 05:38:55 pm »

I don't think we should change Alias.  If you registered an Alias, you own it and should be allowed to transfer the alias if someone else wants it.  Let the market decide if there is worth.  I think some members here are upset because they didn't register their Alias.  Some people paid a lot of Nxt to register specific Alias, and it wouldn't be fair to change it.

Renewal would simply be the minimum fee. Same for everyone so I don't think that would be an issue. Anyway, it's just an idea at this time.
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msin

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2014, 05:45:23 pm »

I don't think we should change Alias.  If you registered an Alias, you own it and should be allowed to transfer the alias if someone else wants it.  Let the market decide if there is worth.  I think some members here are upset because they didn't register their Alias.  Some people paid a lot of Nxt to register specific Alias, and it wouldn't be fair to change it.

Renewal would simply be the minimum fee. Same for everyone so I don't think that would be an issue. Anyway, it's just an idea at this time.

Yes, but why change it, no one has complained of squatting.  Create an open market for it.  It could be yet another thing used to gain interest in Nxt.  If you really want a certain Alias, then buy it while it's cheap. 
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wesley

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2014, 06:21:00 pm »

Yes, but why change it, no one has complained of squatting.  Create an open market for it.  It could be yet another thing used to gain interest in Nxt.  If you really want a certain Alias, then buy it while it's cheap.

What if someone dies? Their aliases are never again usable.
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forkedchain

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2014, 06:48:21 pm »

I don't think we should change Alias.  If you registered an Alias, you own it and should be allowed to transfer the alias if someone else wants it.  Let the market decide if there is worth.  I think some members here are upset because they didn't register their Alias.  Some people paid a lot of Nxt to register specific Alias, and it wouldn't be fair to change it. 

i own quite a few desirable aliases.  I think we should allow for expiration.
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Eadeqa

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2014, 06:51:05 pm »

Yes, but why change it, no one has complained of squatting.  Create an open market for it.  It could be yet another thing used to gain interest in Nxt.  If you really want a certain Alias, then buy it while it's cheap.

What if someone dies? Their aliases are never again usable.

Yes this is a problem. That makes them unusable as domain names.

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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2014, 06:57:12 pm »

Let's talk about this.

Who thinks that Aliases exist to replace domains?
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msin

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2014, 07:42:46 pm »

Yes, but why change it, no one has complained of squatting.  Create an open market for it.  It could be yet another thing used to gain interest in Nxt.  If you really want a certain Alias, then buy it while it's cheap.

What if someone dies? Their aliases are never again usable.

The same goes for Nxt, if a Stakeholder dies we could have 25M static Nxt.  If they leave their account to someone in a will, that person can sell the Nxt as well as any Alias.  Otherwise, everything is lost.  I'd rather see how an open market does for buying/selling/trading Alias before we set any kind of expiration dates. 
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LiQio

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2014, 07:56:30 pm »

Yes, but why change it, no one has complained of squatting.  Create an open market for it.  It could be yet another thing used to gain interest in Nxt.  If you really want a certain Alias, then buy it while it's cheap.

What if someone dies? Their aliases are never again usable.

The same goes for Nxt, if a Stakeholder dies we could have 25M static Nxt.  If they leave their account to someone in a will, that person can sell the Nxt as well as any Alias.  Otherwise, everything is lost.  I'd rather see how an open market does for buying/selling/trading Alias before we set any kind of expiration dates.

Agree with msin and stick to my previous position.
Let the market sort it out, do not let things expire automatically. If in a couple of year this turns out to be an undesirable solution, it can still be handled.

barbierir

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2014, 09:17:54 pm »

+1 Alias expire and must be renewed each year

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swartzfeger

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2014, 02:15:44 am »

+1 Alias expire and must be renewed each year

I own some valuable aliases and have no problem with expiration.

edit: I also agree with msin. The market should suss this out. Let the aliases be transferred as originally intended.

There are dozens of desirable aliases I'm 'squatting' simply so trolls wouldn't grab them. I'd forward them gratis to a respected community member that would use them.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 02:19:33 am by swartzfeger »
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nCtrl

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2014, 02:48:22 am »

As long as it is made in such a way that the original owner gets informed about the upcoming expiration in due time (say one month) and you grant him, during that period, the ability to renew it for another year before it actually expires then I see no problem with it. 
The only thing that is crucial in my opinion is that it makes no sense to try solving the problem of "lost aliases" by creating a new problem, namely giving the chance to people to essentially blackmail the original owner in order to get it back.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 02:54:07 am by nCtrl »
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ejt009

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2014, 06:31:02 am »

Right now 90%+ aliases registered seem to be just squatted in anticipation that they may someday be valuable as an alternative domain.  I lost interest in them after seeing the situation.  They were way too cheap to register and, of course, should have been made to expire.

We could just leave it be and someday develop user-alias 2.0 and/or alt-domain 2.0 to try to improve upon the first iteration.  Or someone can use the asset exchange to try and develop a better alt-dns system.  The hard part would seem to be getting enough users interested in the system to make it viable.
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Eadeqa

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2014, 06:44:40 am »

Right now 90%+ aliases registered seem to be just squatted in anticipation that they may someday be valuable as an alternative domain.  I lost interest in them after seeing the situation. 

I don't think they are worth anything anyway as things currently stand with squatters.

Lets move on to more productive things.

I am interested in digital good store and decentralized eBay like auction store, or decentralized market

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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2014, 07:40:56 am »

Eadeqa, the beauty of different threads: No topics must be ignored because of other topics.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 01:29:58 pm by bitcoinpaul »
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jabo38

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2014, 11:19:41 am »

I don't think the aliases should be rented.  I do understand the need to have aliases recycled though.  I think there could be a clause that any account that has been inactive for a certain amount of time, like 1-10 years has its aliases' expire and go back to being available.  If a major squatter of aliases falls under the "hit by a bus" scenario, then their aliases would free up.  People could see that they would be coming up (transactions are known and it would be known that the account was dormant for said time) and then when they are freed, the biggest bidder will win the alias. 

In addition, an account that has been dormant for a certain amount of time (maybe at least 10 years) can have its funds redistributed.  This way all nxt will more or less will always be in play, not like bitcoin where accounts can be lost.  I am not sure how they can be redistributed.  My vote is that they just don't go to the richest account holders making them richer. 

This system where an alias is able to be kept as long as the account is active more or less means that every alias is rented, but at a onetime fee indefinitely. 

The deal is, we need aliases for accounts.  Nobody wants to give their account number each time.  It is much easier to just say their name.  People that buy their alias want to know they have it for life.  If nxt becomes really big, people will want to know that they have their alias for life.  Some people in rare circumstances are incapacitated or off the grid for times longer than a year, it is not fair for them to lose their alias (read identity if nxt really is big). This is far beyond just web addresses to me. 

If under some circumstance that an alias has to be rented, then I think somebody should be able to prepay rent for up to 20-100 years.  Again, if they were affected by the "hit by the bus scenario" eventually after a long time the alias would free up. 

To disclose.  I bought about 100 aliases.  Some are businesses, but many are the names of my friends and family members (a name for many of my extended family members).  I bought them in hope that I could give it to them someday after nxt is big.  I was told at the time when buying them that I could have them forever.  It isn't fair now for somebody to take my name away.  (I did actually register my name and was thrilled to get it).  At the same time.... I have no problem with all my aliases expiring if my account is dormant for a very long time.  By dormant, I suggest an outgoing transaction that hasn't been automated needs to be made. 
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msin

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2014, 12:51:53 pm »

I don't think the aliases should be rented.  I do understand the need to have aliases recycled though.  I think there could be a clause that any account that has been inactive for a certain amount of time, like 1-10 years has its aliases' expire and go back to being available.  If a major squatter of aliases falls under the "hit by a bus" scenario, then their aliases would free up.  People could see that they would be coming up (transactions are known and it would be known that the account was dormant for said time) and then when they are freed, the biggest bidder will win the alias. 

In addition, an account that has been dormant for a certain amount of time (maybe at least 10 years) can have its funds redistributed.  This way all nxt will more or less will always be in play, not like bitcoin where accounts can be lost.  I am not sure how they can be redistributed.  My vote is that they just don't go to the richest account holders making them richer. 

This system where an alias is able to be kept as long as the account is active more or less means that every alias is rented, but at a onetime fee indefinitely. 

The deal is, we need aliases for accounts.  Nobody wants to give their account number each time.  It is much easier to just say their name.  People that buy their alias want to know they have it for life.  If nxt becomes really big, people will want to know that they have their alias for life.  Some people in rare circumstances are incapacitated or off the grid for times longer than a year, it is not fair for them to lose their alias (read identity if nxt really is big). This is far beyond just web addresses to me. 

If under some circumstance that an alias has to be rented, then I think somebody should be able to prepay rent for up to 20-100 years.  Again, if they were affected by the "hit by the bus scenario" eventually after a long time the alias would free up. 

To disclose.  I bought about 100 aliases.  Some are businesses, but many are the names of my friends and family members (a name for many of my extended family members).  I bought them in hope that I could give it to them someday after nxt is big.  I was told at the time when buying them that I could have them forever.  It isn't fair now for somebody to take my name away.  (I did actually register my name and was thrilled to get it).  At the same time.... I have no problem with all my aliases expiring if my account is dormant for a very long time.  By dormant, I suggest an outgoing transaction that hasn't been automated needs to be made.

I agree that an Alias shouldn't expire unless the account is dormant, we should have an open market for Alias for at least a year and see if there are any issues at that point.
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Damelon

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2014, 01:01:51 pm »

I don't think we should change Alias.  If you registered an Alias, you own it and should be allowed to transfer the alias if someone else wants it.  Let the market decide if there is worth.  I think some members here are upset because they didn't register their Alias.  Some people paid a lot of Nxt to register specific Alias, and it wouldn't be fair to change it. 

i own quite a few desirable aliases.  I think we should allow for expiration.

Same here. I own 1500+ aliases, some quite good, but expiration is not a problem for me.
I think expiration with an option for renewal will allow the market to decide where it puts value.
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forkedchain

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2014, 01:09:39 pm »

I don't think the aliases should be rented.  I do understand the need to have aliases recycled though.  I think there could be a clause that any account that has been inactive for a certain amount of time, like 1-10 years has its aliases' expire and go back to being available.  If a major squatter of aliases falls under the "hit by a bus" scenario, then their aliases would free up.  People could see that they would be coming up (transactions are known and it would be known that the account was dormant for said time) and then when they are freed, the biggest bidder will win the alias. 

In addition, an account that has been dormant for a certain amount of time (maybe at least 10 years) can have its funds redistributed.  This way all nxt will more or less will always be in play, not like bitcoin where accounts can be lost.  I am not sure how they can be redistributed.  My vote is that they just don't go to the richest account holders making them richer. 

This system where an alias is able to be kept as long as the account is active more or less means that every alias is rented, but at a onetime fee indefinitely. 

The deal is, we need aliases for accounts.  Nobody wants to give their account number each time.  It is much easier to just say their name.  People that buy their alias want to know they have it for life.  If nxt becomes really big, people will want to know that they have their alias for life.  Some people in rare circumstances are incapacitated or off the grid for times longer than a year, it is not fair for them to lose their alias (read identity if nxt really is big). This is far beyond just web addresses to me. 

If under some circumstance that an alias has to be rented, then I think somebody should be able to prepay rent for up to 20-100 years.  Again, if they were affected by the "hit by the bus scenario" eventually after a long time the alias would free up. 

To disclose.  I bought about 100 aliases.  Some are businesses, but many are the names of my friends and family members (a name for many of my extended family members).  I bought them in hope that I could give it to them someday after nxt is big.  I was told at the time when buying them that I could have them forever.  It isn't fair now for somebody to take my name away.  (I did actually register my name and was thrilled to get it).  At the same time.... I have no problem with all my aliases expiring if my account is dormant for a very long time.  By dormant, I suggest an outgoing transaction that hasn't been automated needs to be made.

I agree that an Alias shouldn't expire unless the account is dormant, we should have an open market for Alias for at least a year and see if there are any issues at that point.

hmm, perhaps inactivity of an alias being invoked in the blockchain for a certain period, and then once that timer is hit, then network rules would allow someone to simply assign the alias to their account, just like they transfer a new alias into their account.  I think this is sleeker than renting

but, open market?  would fee-based transfer of it at a certain block do for this?  Seems like if everyone will know when an alias will expire, then all these people can "bid" on it with fees at a certain block height.
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msin

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2014, 03:12:14 pm »

I don't think the aliases should be rented.  I do understand the need to have aliases recycled though.  I think there could be a clause that any account that has been inactive for a certain amount of time, like 1-10 years has its aliases' expire and go back to being available.  If a major squatter of aliases falls under the "hit by a bus" scenario, then their aliases would free up.  People could see that they would be coming up (transactions are known and it would be known that the account was dormant for said time) and then when they are freed, the biggest bidder will win the alias. 

In addition, an account that has been dormant for a certain amount of time (maybe at least 10 years) can have its funds redistributed.  This way all nxt will more or less will always be in play, not like bitcoin where accounts can be lost.  I am not sure how they can be redistributed.  My vote is that they just don't go to the richest account holders making them richer. 

This system where an alias is able to be kept as long as the account is active more or less means that every alias is rented, but at a onetime fee indefinitely. 

The deal is, we need aliases for accounts.  Nobody wants to give their account number each time.  It is much easier to just say their name.  People that buy their alias want to know they have it for life.  If nxt becomes really big, people will want to know that they have their alias for life.  Some people in rare circumstances are incapacitated or off the grid for times longer than a year, it is not fair for them to lose their alias (read identity if nxt really is big). This is far beyond just web addresses to me. 

If under some circumstance that an alias has to be rented, then I think somebody should be able to prepay rent for up to 20-100 years.  Again, if they were affected by the "hit by the bus scenario" eventually after a long time the alias would free up. 

To disclose.  I bought about 100 aliases.  Some are businesses, but many are the names of my friends and family members (a name for many of my extended family members).  I bought them in hope that I could give it to them someday after nxt is big.  I was told at the time when buying them that I could have them forever.  It isn't fair now for somebody to take my name away.  (I did actually register my name and was thrilled to get it).  At the same time.... I have no problem with all my aliases expiring if my account is dormant for a very long time.  By dormant, I suggest an outgoing transaction that hasn't been automated needs to be made.

I agree that an Alias shouldn't expire unless the account is dormant, we should have an open market for Alias for at least a year and see if there are any issues at that point.

hmm, perhaps inactivity of an alias being invoked in the blockchain for a certain period, and then once that timer is hit, then network rules would allow someone to simply assign the alias to their account, just like they transfer a new alias into their account.  I think this is sleeker than renting

but, open market?  would fee-based transfer of it at a certain block do for this?  Seems like if everyone will know when an alias will expire, then all these people can "bid" on it with fees at a certain block height.

To clarify, by "open market" I'm referring to just buying/selling/trading alias among users for a year before we decide anything about expiration, not referring to an open market for expired alias.
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swartzfeger

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Re: Alias should be "rent" from the Nxt ecosystem and not buy.
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2014, 04:06:02 pm »

My issue with this topic -- are we simply discussing this in a vacuum?

Can CfB/JL change this? Should they? What do other users think?

I know CIYAM's thoughts -- he dislikes aliases, they're 1.0,  and don't implement alias transfer/trading to punish squatters. Most of us here seem to support some form of 'let the market handle it' with the possibility of alias expiration/yearly renewal once the market has run its course.

But it feels like we're half-a-dozen geeks discussing something in a quiet corner of a pub, which was one of my fears going from a monolithic thread to a dedicated forum with splintered sub fora.

How do we push this issue front and center? Obviously AE, AT and TF take the share of attention, but aliases were one of the first 'new' features to be added; I think trading them is a small but fundamental part of the platform. Others will probably disagree.

Do we push this discussion into General?

I'm similar to Damelon, I registered 500+ aliases... a lot of them could be transferred to community members who would find them useful.
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